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NemoSD
08-07-2013, 20:45
I recently brought my High Elves against a Dwarf player, and it was one of the most infuriatingly frustrating games I played. At first, I wrote it off as my list was designed to exploit the hell out of the magic phase... I did not realize at the time he had tailored. Did not figure that out until he bragged to one of my mates about how he tabled me in two turns... by table he means me realizing this game was going to be nothing but me removing models while he rolls dice.

So I spent most of my week trying to figure out how to overcome that kind of list, because that is what you do when you get spanked.

Then I noticed things got weird, however since I do not own the Dwarf book, nor have access to it, I want to ask a few questions:

His army composition was three cannons, two grudge throwers, 3 Anvils, and a single 80 dwarf block with all of his lords/heroes in its first rank.

I had three Bolt Throwers, 10 Sisters, 19 PG+Archmage, 21 Swordmaster, 20 SG with Avarielle, Noble BSB on Griffon, 16 archers, 8 silver helm and 2 groups of 5 reavers.

He used his anvil to delete my sisters. He said on a 2+ they would each take a strength 4 hit that ignores armor. (Str 4 would of ignored their armor anyways, so I didn't check that.) Now I know it is a 3+ now, but is the rest of the ability reported correctly?

He said his grudgethrower had a rune that made everything under the template get hit by strength 10.

He claimed a rune on his cannon allowed him to reroll BOTH artillery die if he did not like the results of the bounce. Called ******** here, he did not want to show me his book, made a show of looking for it when pressed, then rolled a die hi low to see how it would be played. I won the roll, which annoyed him, but I want to know if he was right or not.

Magic phase, no matter what I did, he had an equal number of dispell dice to my casting dice. Is that possible?

When I got IF off, he claimed his anvil could take a wound and negate it. Once again, I called BS, he forced a roll, and he won that one, then he added that the wound gets an armor save, unmodified, and his anvil took no wound. Was he smoking something here?

When I finally got a charge off on his cannon, he said he used a rune of challenge which would force my reavers to flee, or to charge his big block of dwarves. Is this real, and is their really no save of any kind allowed if it is real?

Thats about all the funny stuff that I think was cheating, and just want to confirm. Outside of that, it was typical WAAC play, backing up his death star and letting his siege weapons do all the work.

maze ironheart
08-07-2013, 20:57
Well I can say the following.

1)No rune allows everything under it to be hit at strength 10 the centre hole maybe if he packs 2 runes of penatrations.

2)Then their is the cannon even if he has the rune of the forge (Re-roll the artillery dice) and a Master engineer you can't re-roll and re-roll basic rule.

3)The anvil can not auto despell a spell even a IF one at that.

4)Their is a rune that forces you to charge or flee but it has to be at the person who owns it that and proberbly that is the only thing he did not lie about.

5)Dwarfs only get +2 to despell attempts and get plus 1 for Runesmiths and +2 for rune lords and +1 for master rune of balance.

I have to say you was cheated big time and this person is giving dwarf players a bad name.

Rakariel
08-07-2013, 21:00
The Dwarf book says that only one Runelord may bring an Anvil (not 3 ;)). The Anvil can be struck either normally (on a 2+) or with ancient power (on a 4+). If the dwarf player fails the dice value roll to see what happens to the anvil. You have to decide which rune is struck and you can only strike one per turn. One of the runes is the shooting attack you mentioned. On normal mode its D6 S4 hits to one unengaged unit, with ancient power 2D6 S4 hits to D3 units.

There is no rune that gives the Grudge Thrower S10 under the template, there is only a rune that increases the Strength by 1 ;)
I see the rest has been mentioned already. Next time force him to show you the paragraph in the book (and then take it and hit him over the head with it).

maze ironheart
08-07-2013, 21:05
The Dwarf book says that only one Runelord may bring an Anvil (not 3 ;)). The Anvil can be struck either normally (on a 2+) or with ancient power (on a 4+). If the dwarf player fails the dice value roll to see what happens to the anvil. You have to decide which rune is struck and you can only strike one per turn. One of the runes is the shooting attack you mentioned. On normal mode its D6 S4 hits to one unengaged unit, with ancient power 2D6 S4 hits to D3 units.

I dont think there is a rune that gives the Grudge Thrower S10 under the template, there is only a rune that increases the Strength by 1 ;)
I see the rest has been mentioned already. Next time force him to show you the paragraph in the book (and then take it and hit him over the head with it).

The best way to solve any problom have them show in their book you they refuse or don't have the book then 4+ it (Roll a dice) and maybe they should consider buying a book before they use a army.

theunwantedbeing
08-07-2013, 21:06
The anvil is a 0-1 choice.
It doesn't have a power that will hit every model in the unit.
The maximum hits it can do is with it's ancient power rune to hit D3 units with 2D6 st4 hits.

The grudge thrower can be made strength 10 under the hole by adding a rune.
The maximum strength of the rest of the template is 6 (3 base, plus 3 runes of +1 strength).
Only one grudge thrower can have that though.

There is no rune to re-roll the cannons artillery dice regardless of the roll.
He needs a Master Engineer(the character) to be able to re-roll the first artillery dice used per cannon.

As to power dice to your dispel dice....
He has a rune that can take one of your power dice and add it to his dispel pile.
With his 3 anvils, he'll generate 9 extra dispel dice in total...2 per runelord sitting on them, one per Anvil.
Obviously highly illegal as well as being at least 945pts before any upgrades.

The anvil cannot take a wound to negate irresistible force.

The Rune of Challenge exists, although it doesn't work like how your opponent described.

Basically, never play this guy again and make sure that you tell everyone you know never to play this guy ever again.
Or make sure the only people he gets to play are players who will not allow cheating and know the Dwarf rules.

NemoSD
08-07-2013, 21:08
The Dwarf book says that only one Runelord may bring an Anvil (not 3 ;)). The Anvil can be struck either normally (on a 2+) or with ancient power (on a 4+). If the dwarf player fails the dice value roll to see what happens to the anvil. You have to decide which rune is struck and you can only strike one per turn. One of the runes is the shooting attack you mentioned. On normal mode its D6 S4 hits to one unengaged unit, with ancient power 2D6 S4 hits to D3 units.

I dont think there is a rune that gives the Grudge Thrower S10 under the template, there is only a rune that increases the Strength by 1 ;)
I see the rest has been mentioned already. Next time force him to show you the paragraph in the book (and then take it and hit him over the head with it).

Well I just wont play him again. Not worth it. Plus he will be blacklisted for events I put together.

Now I want to play a real Dwarf list...

Lorcryst
08-07-2013, 21:09
*Three* Anvils ? As in, three Anvils of Doom, the thing that is 0-1 and an upgrade to a Runelord ?

That right there smacks of "I cheat therefore I win" ...

As far as I rememeber, never has it been written in the three editions of Dwarf Army Books I own that an Anvil of Doom could take a wound to negate a spell ... even less so an IF'ed spell ...

There is a rune that boosts the strength of the grudgethrower, but it's +1 per rune, so a max of S6 for the template and S10 (after the first rune) under the central hole ...

An Anvil of Doom adds +1 dispel die, and there are some runes that boost the dispel dice pool, but you'd need to roll very poorly for him to match your power dice each phase (like 6-1 everytime, he starts with 6 to your 7, add 1 for the Anvil, etc), also Dwarves get a +2 to dispel roll, but NOT +2 dice !

The Rune of Forging on a Cannon allows to rerol EITHER to hit or bounce, NOT BOTH.

I don't have my current Dwarf Army Book with me so I cannot check the rest, but that guy was a cheating bastard IMHO ...

NemoSD
08-07-2013, 21:09
The Rune of Challenge exists, although it doesn't work like how your opponent described.


Without going into rules specific, how does it work? Does it allow a save of some form to avoid?

Rakariel
08-07-2013, 21:13
The best way to solve any problom have them show in their book you they refuse or don't have the book then 4+ it (Roll a dice) and maybe they should consider buying a book before they use a army.

Only the best way if your opponent isn`t an ass and obviously trying to cheat.

theunwantedbeing
08-07-2013, 21:16
Without going into rules specific, how does it work? Does it allow a save of some form to avoid?

It forces a single enemy unit that could declare a charge against the bearer(and his unit) to do so.
You can avoid it by choosing to flee instead.

So....actually, he was almost correct in how it worked!

Rakariel
08-07-2013, 21:17
The master rune of challenge is a one use item. If you want to use it you have to declare it BEFORE your opponent declares his charges. You nominate one unit which is able to charge the bearer of the rune, if that unit wants to charge it can only charge the character that has the rune or flee as it would have failed a panic test.

Lorcryst
08-07-2013, 21:19
Without going into rules specific, how does it work? Does it allow a save of some form to avoid?

One use Rune. At the start of the enemy (non-Dwarf) turn, you nominate an unit within 20 inches that is not Immune to Psychology and would be able to charge the unit of the runed-up character. That unit must charge the rune-bearer or flee.

Yes, it's really nasty, but since it's a Master Rune, only one per army, and it's a one-shot.

EDIT : DARNIT ! Double-ninja'ed :p

NemoSD
08-07-2013, 21:21
The master rune of challenge is a one use item. If you want to use it you have to declare it BEFORE your opponent declares his charges. You nominate one unit which is able to charge the bearer of the rune, if that unit wants to charge it can only charge the character that has the rune or flee as it would have failed a panic test.

Ok, so that is its down side, it has to be done before. Thought it was BS that "Oh noes, you charge my cannon, charge me instead with no save or allowance to change what so ever, or run away." The way you describe the rune makes it still effective, but not a stupidly abusable trump card.

By the way, thank you all for the information. I knew something was fishy, but given my ignorance of that army book, I didn't want to just assume.

3eland
08-07-2013, 21:22
A rune "ability" (from the anvil) is successful if struck on a 2+ normally or a 4+ for its ancient power. Rune of Wrath and Wraith is target a single enemy unit anywhere on the battlefield, they take d6 S4 magical attacks, if he strikes it as an ancient then it is d3 enemy units, 2d6 s4 magical hits.

Rune of Penetrating (which is the most likely one for the grudgethrower) gives "the strength of a hit from a warmachine is increased by 1 to a max of 10) now you CAN place up to three of these on the grudgethrower. The grudgethrower uses the rules of a stone thrower from the big book. therefore if it had 3 runes it would be S6(10 for middle)

Rune of Forging, can only be placed on a cannon, allows the player to reroll a misfire but you must take the second result even if it is a misfire.

In the magic phase an anvil grants an extra dispel dice, so it could be possible to beat or exceed your casting dice.

Not sure what IF so can't answer that one (spell? irresistable force?) but it sounds like he is blowing smoke on that one

Rune of Challnge states: One use only. This rune is normally inscribed in a book or on a warhorn. The rune is used during the enemy turn before they declare charges. Nominate one enemy unit with 20" of the rune user. The unit must be able to charge and reach the user or the unit he is with according to normal rules. the enemy must either declare a charge against the rune user or must flee in the compulsary movement phase as if it had failed a panic test. The rune has no effect on units that are immune to psychology.


So it would seem he is a cheat

EDIT: Ninja'd as I was clarifying everything from the book lol

shelfunit.
08-07-2013, 21:41
What size battle was this game? 3 Rune Lords + Anvils would be almost 1,000pts by themselves - "illegal" in a lower than 4,000pt game*.

*Were more than 1 anvil permitted as others have said.

teafloy_the_damned
08-07-2013, 22:05
As a Dwarf player, i'm sickend by this.
Somes rules he's twisted to fit events, others are just bald faced lies.

Hopefully he's playing with a pre-release copy of the new dwarf book :evilgrin:

Next time you see him, pin him down and shave his beard, if he doesnt have one, force him to grow one then shave it off!
Failing that, kick him in the nuts

gogs78
08-07-2013, 22:33
To put it simply.......your opponent should be shot.

zoggin-eck
09-07-2013, 01:08
Ha, people actually "brag" about winning games? Bad enough if he wasn't cheating.

How old was he? I'd forgive this sort of thing if you were a couple of kids half making it up as you went along, but it sure doesn't sound like it :)

Is he someone you're likely to come across again? I'd call him up on it! Sounds like the right idea to blacklist him from anything you organise, unless he has a pretty good explanation.

NemoSD
09-07-2013, 01:16
Ha, people actually "brag" about winning games? Bad enough if he wasn't cheating.

How old was he? I'd forgive this sort of thing if you were a couple of kids half making it up as you went along, but it sure doesn't sound like it :)

Is he someone you're likely to come across again? I'd call him up on it! Sounds like the right idea to blacklist him from anything you organise, unless he has a pretty good explanation.

He will be back some more, and he is old enough to know better.

I will politically make new players aware of him though, and if I see him playing fantasy, I am going to kibitz the hell out of his game.

m1acca1551
09-07-2013, 02:11
?? Wow... You got bent over on this one, i wouldn't be so politic about letting others know, but if I ever saw him gaming with a similar list I would simply walk over to his opponent and tell him what happened to you and to be very careful.

Lance Tankmen
09-07-2013, 02:16
kibitz??? I assume stand off to the side and call him on his ****?

NemoSD
09-07-2013, 02:18
kibitz??? I assume stand off to the side and call him on his ****?

It was a polite way of saying standing there next to his table with my brand new dwarf army book open and checking his every move until he gets so frustrated that he acts like a child, or gives up on cheating. Whatever happens first. :-p

Lance Tankmen
09-07-2013, 04:27
haha perfect, I had a dwarf army once, really loved the lore and rules just need an update..

In_Fiction
09-07-2013, 04:55
As a Dwarf player myself I am floored by this. The part about an anvil taking a wound to negate an IF spell is just too funny though. At that point I would have stopped the game and demanded to see the book.

I would LOVE to see him try this at a tournament or some sort of event where it's more than just a friendly game. I guess in this case though it wasn't really a friendly game though, was it?:(

NemoSD
09-07-2013, 05:17
As a Dwarf player myself I am floored by this. The part about an anvil taking a wound to negate an IF spell is just too funny though. At that point I would have stopped the game and demanded to see the book.

I would LOVE to see him try this at a tournament or some sort of event where it's more than just a friendly game. I guess in this case though it wasn't really a friendly game though, was it?:(

Started off that way or so I thought.

Ramius4
09-07-2013, 05:42
It's stories like this that make me glad I only play with a select group of friends. And that between us, we own and share all the army books. Shenanigans like this simply would not be possible (nor welcome).

WLBjork
09-07-2013, 06:04
5)Dwarfs only get +2 to despell attempts and get plus 1 for Runesmiths and +2 for rune lords and +1 for master rune of balance.

Not quite.

A) A further +2 to dispell roll can be gained from the Master Rune of Vayala

B) Runelords and Runesmiths grant bonus dispel dice, but only get bonus to dispell attempts with a single Rune.

Which leads to the amusing situation that not only was the OP's opponent cheating, he wasn't very good at it as he should have had a minimum of +9 dispel dice (and therefore had more DD than OP's PD).

warplock
09-07-2013, 22:01
This is unbelievable. He literally just made everything up. Certainly you should not play him again, but if I were you I wouldn't be able to rest until I had asked him- why? Why cheat like that? The things he said, they were far too outlandishto be brushed aside as accidental misreading of the rules. This guy just does not care one tiny bit about the game or about fairness. It's horrifying.

the beardless dwarf
09-07-2013, 22:21
I am a dwarf player and I fell REALY ashamed by this cheater. Dont play with this guy anymore, I mean he didnt misread the rules, he MADE them up!

Shave his beard and than spray his hair orange!!!!

3eland
09-07-2013, 22:32
One thing that amuses me is how he went around gloating that he floored you... I would find all those people he talked to and show them how much of a flooring it truly was... by cheating.

NemoSD
10-07-2013, 07:15
One thing that amuses me is how he went around gloating that he floored you... I would find all those people he talked to and show them how much of a flooring it truly was... by cheating.

Well half the people he bragged to came to me and let me know because they know I am in general, a decent player and while the dice fail us all, I tend to fight tooth and nail to the very end, I rarely 'concede' unless there is a time issue. In a tourney I will concede if I can not see any realistic chance to win, especially before lunch or a break, just to get the extra time, but in a casual game, I never quit early. So people wanted to know what was up.

Fact is, I have a reputation in my area, and this guy has just earned him one to. A lot of people don't like me because I am no non-sense, and I have this tendency of when drama starts, I go, "Ok, here is what happened, blah blah blah, now you know the facts, I am out, enjoy what ever soap opera these drama queens proceed to create." However, most of the people who do not like me, trust me because of that.

And I have spread the word on this guy. Today he was in the store begging for a game, and left because people were not even willing to play MTG with him. That is how you handle these players.

Mithrilherz
10-07-2013, 07:28
Wow, I am playing dwarfs and high elves myself, but such an obvious cheating, illegal list building and lying is rare. As said, do not ever play him again and feel free to tell everyone about him.

Wesser
10-07-2013, 09:53
I have to say you was cheated big time and this person is giving dwarf players a bad name.

Aha, so in the future when we want to rage at dwarf players we got precedence? Nice :)

On a more serious note, if a person doesn't want to show you his army book or army list then it is always a bad sign. So is "this they can do, but I can't remember what the rule is called or where it says they can".

abdulaapocolyps
10-07-2013, 12:38
Try makingloud crying noises whenever he speaks and talk over him constantly.that's always fun. Or perhaps ask to play him again and claim star dragons are core, only 100 points each and immune to all attacks made my people with facial hair. When he complains compromise by offering to 4+ each of these points.
Finally I would consider telling everyone that he claimed his lord has rocket pants. Then make a big scene when you say you are starting dwarves and insist on buying the dwarves rocket pants model you heard about...
Why would a dwarf cheat? Theirour book is great! Boring, but great.

Urgat
10-07-2013, 15:17
Try makingloud crying noises whenever he speaks and talk over him constantly.that's always fun. Or perhaps ask to play him again and claim star dragons are core, only 100 points each and immune to all attacks made my people with facial hair. When he complains compromise by offering to 4+ each of these points.
Finally I would consider telling everyone that he claimed his lord has rocket pants. Then make a big scene when you say you are starting dwarves and insist on buying the dwarves rocket pants model you heard about...
Why would a dwarf cheat? Theirour book is great! Boring, but great.

How old are you, 6?

HurrDurr
10-07-2013, 21:59
Urgat you are just jealous because you don't have rocket pants. You probably don't even have a beard.

The bearded one
10-07-2013, 22:57
Kinda flabbergasted by how excessively far he went with made-up rules. Triple anvils, overpowering the anvil-powers, strength 10 grudgethrowers (only the hole is, if some runes are applied), overpowering the rune of forging (the rune of forging on cannons allows them to reroll the misfire on the artillery dice and bounce, but none of the numbered results), the number of dispel dice is the only thing actually possible (especially with 3 anvils), the anvils taking wounds (with armoursaves!) to negate irresistible force, using the master rune of challenge after you made a succesful charge on his cannon (it works like that, but the rune has to be used before you start declaring charges).. I'm actually keen on more details (did he have 20 lords? Howmany points did you play? Were his 80 warriors in horde formation with a full front rank of characters?) because this nonsense is so enormously over the top it's kinda amusing.

I guess this justifies it to myself to buy every new armybook. At least I'm aware if I'm being bs'ed, and what kind of things I might expect :) pricey though.

kefkah
10-07-2013, 23:28
Oh man first i got quite pissed of then but then i got really amused and couldent stop smiling.

He really went to town with you, and it wasent nudging unit or swapping some char, it was shamless cheating and on top of that, the most ridiculous way to cheat i have ever heard off. Its so off the top (rope?) that even if i wanted i could never be so brazing or say that with a straight face.

But really..yeah wow. And to the guy in this thread who says he is lucky that he only play with his friends, cheaters like these are very rare to find..at all.

Haha i really like that dwarf buld though, maybe GW should look into it to make the dwarfs more viable and boring ( who dosent love having 3 anvils with god-powers and cannon-templates). Every models take a s4 hit with no armoursave was the best though. Lol

abdulaapocolyps
11-07-2013, 08:34
Who the hell buys three anvil models just to pull this off?its incredible...
Ps if dwarves get access to BRB items next edition I'm making a rocket pants lord.

GrandmasterWang
11-07-2013, 11:07
He is obviously a chaos dwarf masquerading as a good stuntie.

As a dwarf player myself I laughed at some of his shenanigans.

I love the anvil IF block. If they could do that you would see them more n often.

Maybe once he realized you didn't knowthe rules he got a troll kick out of seeing how far he could push it.

Kallstrom
11-07-2013, 23:18
So this is why I have lost so many games with my dwarfs? I totally missed the part where it says I can bring three anvils with super powers and whatnot. Maybe it was FAQ'd when I was not paying attention?
Hmm, off to list building and bi-winning!


On a more serious note. The OP's post made me smile. I WOULD love to play that cheating dwarf, just to see what he comes up with next and then make up my own rules as we go along. I would like to bring out my Beastmen and see which of the two of us that has the strongest imagination. Let the games begin!

NemoSD
11-07-2013, 23:31
So this is why I have lost so many games with my dwarfs? I totally missed the part where it says I can bring three anvils with super powers and whatnot. Maybe it was FAQ'd when I was not paying attention?
Hmm, off to list building and bi-winning!


On a more serious note. The OP's post made me smile. I WOULD love to play that cheating dwarf, just to see what he comes up with next and then make up my own rules as we go along. I would like to bring out my Beastmen and see which of the two of us that has the strongest imagination. Let the games begin!

Had an exchange with him today:

"So, I need to apologize, I forgot if it was ok if I used my updated for 8th Army Book instead of the Games Workshop published one. I wasn't cheating, just forgot to mention I was using a personally updated book."

I just said, "Uh huh," and then ignored him, and went back to my game.

boli
11-07-2013, 23:35
I have a personally updated skaven book as well, vermin lords can now be taken as core and fielded in units 50ppm ;)

Can I use that in a game? :)

Theocracity
11-07-2013, 23:43
Had an exchange with him today:

"So, I need to apologize, I forgot if it was ok if I used my updated for 8th Army Book instead of the Games Workshop published one. I wasn't cheating, just forgot to mention I was using a personally updated book."

I just said, "Uh huh," and then ignored him, and went back to my game.

Ha. I guess he was just ashamed of his handwriting when he didn't let you see his book after asking :p.

At least he realized that he did something wrong. Maybe after this he'll realize that apologies aren't very effective if you try and justify it with a load of crap.

Edit: Seriously, when you called him out and asked to see the book, one of these thoughts should have gone through his head:

1: "Crap, I can't find the custom codex that I wrote in my notebook. I'm sure he will be totally fine when he sees this even though I didn't ask him about it, because I am thick."

2: "Crap, I just remembered that I'm playing with a custom list and forgot to ask him. Well, too late now - I'll make a show of looking for it to pretend I'm being legit, then brag when I win and only tell him the truth if I'm caught, because I am inconsiderate."

3: "Crap, he's on to my cheating. I'll make a show of looking for it, then brag when I win and make up some crap about a custom list if I'm caught, because I'm a ponce."

Also amused that his idea of '8th Edition Dwarves' was just dwarves exactly as they are now but everything they were already good at is way better.

In_Fiction
12-07-2013, 03:46
Ha. I guess he was just ashamed of his handwriting when he didn't let you see his book after asking :p.

At least he realized that he did something wrong. Maybe after this he'll realize that apologies aren't very effective if you try and justify it with a load of crap.

He probably browses here and saw the post about him, heh.

lybban
12-07-2013, 08:32
Had an exchange with him today:

"So, I need to apologize, I forgot if it was ok if I used my updated for 8th Army Book instead of the Games Workshop published one. I wasn't cheating, just forgot to mention I was using a personally updated book."

I just said, "Uh huh," and then ignored him, and went back to my game.

Hahaha! Thats the funniest thing ive read on warseer so far. This guy almost sound made up!

datalink7
12-07-2013, 09:47
Had an exchange with him today:

"So, I need to apologize, I forgot if it was ok if I used my updated for 8th Army Book instead of the Games Workshop published one. I wasn't cheating, just forgot to mention I was using a personally updated book."

I just said, "Uh huh," and then ignored him, and went back to my game.

That's not an apology. Just because you say certain words, such as "I need to apologize", doesn't automatically make it a legitimate apology. Nor does it require forgiveness. Should have called him on his BS right then and there.

Lorcryst
12-07-2013, 09:52
So 8th edition Dwarves throw everything and the baby out of the bathwater, rape the fluff, murder the rules and allow their user the brag that they're a cheating, low-life scummy bastard ?

I think I'll continue to play with my friends ... even with the "soo very bad" 6th ed Army Book, my Dwarf-playing friend beat me 63 times in the last two years, with 2 draws and 3 wins for my Nurgle Daemons ... AND he doesn't cheat, doesn't use even a single anvil, and only uses the models he has in his collection, so no 80+ block of Ironbreakers, for example.

(yes, I'm not a good General, and yes he has years of military background to help him strategize on the go)

The bearded one
12-07-2013, 13:04
So 8th edition Dwarves throw everything and the baby out of the bathwater, rape the fluff, murder the rules and allow their user the brag that they're a cheating, low-life scummy bastard ?

I think I'll continue to play with my friends ... even with the "soo very bad" 6th ed Army Book, my Dwarf-playing friend beat me 63 times in the last two years, with 2 draws and 3 wins for my Nurgle Daemons ... AND he doesn't cheat, doesn't use even a single anvil, and only uses the models he has in his collection, so no 80+ block of Ironbreakers, for example.

(yes, I'm not a good General, and yes he has years of military background to help him strategize on the go)

Oh but that's not due to the rules or tactical skill. That's just because of inherent dwarven awesomeness..
..and, if you believe daemonreign, because the new daemons suck :p

En Sabbah Nur
12-07-2013, 13:08
o_O it's just... wow man :eek: ! Never heard such cheating whatever be the game ! And the so-called apologizes are cherry on the cake.
Seriously, how old was he ?

The best part was "I wrote my own Dwarf AB, which is just god-powered and off regular rules of deployment and composition, never showed it to anyone, but I use it without telling my opponents. Oh, I dunno why they are complaining afterwards, everything is legal, since I've written it. :shifty:"

Feel sorry for you, but I think I'll show this to my pals, it is just too much !

Lorcryst
12-07-2013, 13:08
I know that Dwarves are awesome ... they were my first army back in 4th ed when I started :p

I've been lured by the Dark Gods since then ... and I'm kind of a klutz of a general, forgetting half of my special rules most of the time, flunking dice rolls, etc.

I do tend to roll better than average on my Regeneration rolls tough, to the great frustration of my Dwarf opponent ... still, staying alive and actually killing stuff are two different things, and you only need 200 points of difference to have a win nowadays :shifty:

Captain Collius
12-07-2013, 14:15
I have a personally updated skaven book as well, vermin lords can now be taken as core and fielded in units 50ppm ;)

Can I use that in a game? :)

Only if you can take them in units of 6 with Rat Deamon charge ( d6 impact hits for every model in the unit each of which causes d6 wounds.)

boli
12-07-2013, 14:20
Only if you can take them in units of 6 with Rat Deamon charge ( d6 impact hits for every model in the unit each of which causes d6 wounds.)

I dunno... I may have to reduce them to 45ppm... ;)

Djekar
12-07-2013, 14:24
..and, if you believe daemonreign, because the new daemons suck

TBO wins the thread!

Seriously though, the "apology" would have made me madder than the cheating in the first place.

Captain Collius
12-07-2013, 14:30
I dunno... I may have to reduce them to 45ppm... ;)

Also because we are skaven we get to assassinate 20d6 of your models before the game. Just because.

En Sabbah Nur
12-07-2013, 16:14
As they are already dead, could my TK and VC never be killed ? That's all here in the book I wrote last night !

Chaos Warlord
12-07-2013, 20:01
Since Beastmen are considered the most numerous of all the races (together with greenskins!) this would allow me to get reinforcements each turn from every table edge, beside regular ambush rules, yes? :D

Necronartum
13-07-2013, 09:35
I hate to be the voice of reason, but I don't think that community 'shunning' is a particularly suitable way of dealing with people like this, especially considering table-top gamers are generally the object of it ourselves (to a lesser degree).

Yes he has cheated (absurdly so). But does someone deserve to be forever cast from the hobby on a single lapse of sanity? He got caught. He has apologised and is obviously shamed. Surely the morally correct course of action would be to allow him to show your group that he has learnt and is now willing to play by the rules subject to additional scrutiny until he can be proven trustworthy?

Considering people in this hobby consider themselves to be friendly, outgoing, moderated individuals, I am less concerned by his actions than I am by the apparently judge/jury/executioner style of opinion presented by the majority of members on this forum. God forbid you should ever make a mistake (however lapse).

Shadeseraph
13-07-2013, 10:00
Next time you see him, pin him down and shave his beard, if he doesnt have one, force him to grow one then shave it off!

Beards for the Cloak of Beards!

The bearded one
13-07-2013, 11:08
Considering people in this hobby consider themselves to be friendly, outgoing, moderated individuals, I am less concerned by his actions than I am by the apparently judge/jury/executioner style of opinion presented by the majority of members on this forum. God forbid you should ever make a mistake (however lapse).

God forbid you should ever do something so disgraceful as practically make up all the rules to the point of absurdity and then gloat and brag that you tabled someone with said made-up stupid rules.


I can understand and agree (to a degree) with the sentiment you espoused though, but come on.. he deserves to be shunned at least a little bit, for a while.

theunwantedbeing
13-07-2013, 12:36
But does someone deserve to be forever cast from the hobby on a single lapse of sanity?

I don't think he's going to be shunned untill the end of time.
Probably more like a week or two (it's only been 5 days since the thread appeared).

We'll see though.
Not everyone has the capability to change, some people take years before they quit cheating.

Lorcryst
13-07-2013, 12:55
He has apologised and is obviously shamed.

Have you carefully read the transcript of his "apology" ? No shame whatsoever in there just "I used made-up rules, I didn't know (HAH ! As if !) that that wasn't OK" ...

Necronartum
13-07-2013, 15:56
Yeah I completely agree that what he did was utterly despicable (especially the bragging part) and at least blasphemous (to the Dice Gods). Thing is, the bragging is what makes him look even more ridiculous in the end and as such, makes his own punishment/shame worse.

The 'apology' is what you would expect from somebody who is apparently immature enough to make up rules in the first place. The latter part, namely his self-justification, is probably an excuse to alleviate some of the awkwardness he feels and an attempt at retaining some self dignity.

I know people would definitely shy away from playing with someone like that naturally. Myself included. But a week of two of people being funny might force them away from the hobby altogether!

Heh. I'm probably being too soft!

Lorcryst
13-07-2013, 16:08
I don't think that forcing that guy out of the hobby until he learns some gentlemanly habits would be a huge loss ...

After all, even with fierce competition, this *should* be a gentleman(woman)'s game ... we play with toy soldiers for Freya's sake ! The least we can do with such a childish hobby is to try to be grown-ups when playing the game (and after too) :p

Theocracity
13-07-2013, 17:36
Yeah I completely agree that what he did was utterly despicable (especially the bragging part) and at least blasphemous (to the Dice Gods). Thing is, the bragging is what makes him look even more ridiculous in the end and as such, makes his own punishment/shame worse.

The 'apology' is what you would expect from somebody who is apparently immature enough to make up rules in the first place. The latter part, namely his self-justification, is probably an excuse to alleviate some of the awkwardness he feels and an attempt at retaining some self dignity.

I know people would definitely shy away from playing with someone like that naturally. Myself included. But a week of two of people being funny might force them away from the hobby altogether!

Heh. I'm probably being too soft!

I don't think he should be shunned forever either. But he should be kept out at least until his apology doesn't have qualifications that make people think "Does this guy think I'm an idiot?" And he should be watched in future games regardless.

I think the next time he's begging for a game he should be taken aside and talked to. Not in an angry manner, but in a way that explains why his behavior was disrespectful. Give him a chance to really understand why what he did was wrong (especially now that he's seen the direct consequences), so that hopefully he'll actually learn.

NemoSD
13-07-2013, 22:39
I hate to be the voice of reason, but I don't think that community 'shunning' is a particularly suitable way of dealing with people like this, especially considering table-top gamers are generally the object of it ourselves (to a lesser degree).

Yes he has cheated (absurdly so). But does someone deserve to be forever cast from the hobby on a single lapse of sanity? He got caught. He has apologised and is obviously shamed. Surely the morally correct course of action would be to allow him to show your group that he has learnt and is now willing to play by the rules subject to additional scrutiny until he can be proven trustworthy?

Considering people in this hobby consider themselves to be friendly, outgoing, moderated individuals, I am less concerned by his actions than I am by the apparently judge/jury/executioner style of opinion presented by the majority of members on this forum. God forbid you should ever make a mistake (however lapse).

It has been mentioned, but his apology was framed not only in a "Oops my bad, no harm no foul," but it was also presented in such a way to legitimize his cheating. He now has a word document that he carries around. He hasn't gotten a game, outside of his own little crew of about three players, since this all happened.

As far as shunning being to much. There is one unbreakable tenant in a;; competitive activities.

"Thou shalt not cheat."

It is a bloody easy rule to follow, and if one can not follow that simple rule, then I see no problem in shunning an individual. He is unlucky that I am an event organizer and have a zero tolerance to cheating. (My strict stance on cheated is why I asked here. Even though I was certain he was cheating, I did not have access to a Dwarf book, and thus wanted to be sure before I made that judgment.)

And has he learned anything? Nope, just yesterday he was disqualified from a Warmahorde Slow Growth League for, you guess it, cheating. (Apparently underpointed his units, and was caught microwaving a set of dice... in the stores microwave...)

theunwantedbeing
13-07-2013, 22:48
It has been mentioned, but his apology was framed not only in a "Oops my bad, no harm no foul," but it was also presented in such a way to legitimize his cheating. He now has a word document that he carries around. He hasn't gotten a game, outside of his own little crew of about three players, since this all happened.

Does that group of 3 play amongst themselves all the time or do they play against others in the community?

The bearded one
13-07-2013, 23:44
and was caught microwaving a set of dice... in the stores microwave...)

174371

All sympathy just diseappeared

Theocracity
13-07-2013, 23:52
174371

All sympathy just diseappeared

Wow, yeah. This guy's just a failure.

Sounds like this guy has never heard the popular axiom "Don't crap in your own backyard."

NemoSD
14-07-2013, 00:47
Does that group of 3 play amongst themselves all the time or do they play against others in the community?

They are a group of people who managed to all get kicked out of a local GW store for being pretentious **********. There are more then just the three, the entire group is about seven, with two of them having 'reformed.' But yeah, they only branch out if they have no other choice.

They all are big tournament fans, so... they know the rules and all that.

kefkah
14-07-2013, 00:55
Wow who is this guy? some balls on this dude no? lol

datalink7
14-07-2013, 03:32
I hate to be the voice of reason, but I don't think that community 'shunning' is a particularly suitable way of dealing with people like this, especially considering table-top gamers are generally the object of it ourselves (to a lesser degree).

Yes he has cheated (absurdly so). But does someone deserve to be forever cast from the hobby on a single lapse of sanity? He got caught. He has apologised and is obviously shamed. Surely the morally correct course of action would be to allow him to show your group that he has learnt and is now willing to play by the rules subject to additional scrutiny until he can be proven trustworthy?

Considering people in this hobby consider themselves to be friendly, outgoing, moderated individuals, I am less concerned by his actions than I am by the apparently judge/jury/executioner style of opinion presented by the majority of members on this forum. God forbid you should ever make a mistake (however lapse).

I disagree.

1) He didn't make a "mistake". He purposefully cheated.

2) He didn't apologize. He said some words in order to make it seem like he was apologizing, but he didn't actually make an apology.

Urgat
14-07-2013, 08:26
I don't think he should be shunned forever either.
Depends how he is besides that. If he's an otherwise decent bloke, I'd say you shouldn't do that. But the bragging part makes me think he's just a jerk anyway (edit: and reading the following posts confirms it), so, in all honesty, I'd just say "good riddance". It's a game, I'm not there to educate people, I'm here to have fun. There's specialists for people with social inaptitudes, it's not my role. Now I'm not for agravating other people, all the talks above about making him pay this or that way make my skill crawl, but let's be honest, he'd be in, say, a sports club, or chess club, or anything like that, he'd get sacked, and never allowed to play again. If it was a club involved in competitive play at any level (like chess tourneys), the word would go around, and his chess days would be over. Is he a friend? Is he a an otherwise decent guy? Do you have any real inclination to make the effort? If any these questions are answered with a "no", in all honesty, unless you're a parangon of virtue set to correct the mistake of others (there's people like that, but I'm not), why do you care if he quits the hobby or not, really :/

Nubl0
14-07-2013, 09:09
This guy sounds like the epitome of all a ********* wargamer can aspire to. Seriously if there are plenty of other players around and he has his own little group just exclude him entirely from events and even warn people about pick up games with him. That kind of person obviously has some issues if he feels the need to. Cheat that much in a game of toy soldiers. Especially where a game can take upto 2 hours, I don't want my time wasted with some jerk going out of his way to make it as un-fun as possible.

theunwantedbeing
14-07-2013, 12:35
They are a group of people who managed to all get kicked out of a local GW store for being pretentious **********. There are more then just the three, the entire group is about seven, with two of them having 'reformed.' But yeah, they only branch out if they have no other choice.

That explains why mr. cheater was such a [insert expletive of choice].
It's a shame he's stuck with a bad crowd, he might well be a decent gamer who doesn't cheat otherwise.

Urgat
14-07-2013, 17:52
Being pretentious and a braggart, especially being a braggart when there's no cause to be, is hardly something you can blame on others.