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Davithedrone
14-07-2013, 14:52
Hi guys,

i always wanted to start a vampire counts army and after a couple of years of pausing in warhammer fantasy I decided to take a shot an it with the new 8th edition.
I hope some vampire counts veterans can help me with my list, because I want to create a moderate list for friendly games, but still possible to win with it.


I was always excited of necrarch´s or/and van carstein bloodlines but cant decide what i want to play, i like massive magic but I am not sure of the effectiveness in the 8th edition.

So my first approach is a van carstein list with a "beast"-theme.

Vampirelord @ 429P
lvl3 wizard, master of black arts, beguile, talisman of preservation, second hand weapon

Necromancer @ 125P
lvl2 wizard, Dispellscroll

Wight king @114P
battle standard bearer, shield

39 Skelletons @230
banner, screaming banner

40 Zombies @130P
banner, musician

20 Zombies @60P

10 Dire wolves @80P

24 Grave guard @344P
full command, banner of barrows

3 Vargheists @138P

2x1 Varghulf @ 350P

My idea was, to stick the BSB and the lord in the grave guard, flanked by the skelletons and zombies with the necromancer in a 20 zombies bunker behind the lines. The dire wolves and also the vargheists and varghulf should be able to hold one flank on their own and move fast to hunt small units and/or war maschines, because of the vaguard rule or vampiric, which allows them to march.

Its my first trial to make a vampire counts list and I look forward to critism and discussions of the effectiveness of this army.

Thank you in advance

Moss
14-07-2013, 17:52
A few things:

Your vampire is the most important model in your army; the 4++ is nice, but you should get him some more armor. Lose the extra hand weapon and give him the enchanted shield. Also, Red Fury is what makes vampires so dangerous; I recommend you pick it up.

You can find the points by dropping the wight. Unless he's important to your theme, he's more of a liability than an asset; he is easily killed for 100 bonus VPs. You can also use the points to give your GG more bodies.

Just a warning - 40 zombies will die faster than you think. Unless you can get some Invocations off, don't expect them to hold for very long.

Two units of five wolves are better than one unit of ten. It makes them more expendable (which they need to be).

The vampire (in my opinion) would be better in the skeletons. They can use the extra killing power, whereas the grave guard will do just fine without the character support.

All in all though, it looks good as-is. My suggestions are more for fine-tuning.

Davithedrone
15-07-2013, 13:55
Hi Moss,

since you are the only one aswering, here my thoughts:

The bsb is not necessary for my list because he is not a beast :), but I dont rly want to change the gg because then i would lose the vargheists and that just not part of my plan. I could change the banner for more body´s but I dont think thats worth it.

The next question to me would be take a cc lord is not the problem, but what to do with the magic now? Take cc + magic in one model is kinda risky if my lord blows in the magic phase and i lose 1/4 of my army. Alternative i could use a full cc lord lvl1 with an additional necromancer.

When i consider this i would come to these changes: (1998P)

Vampirelord @480
lvl3 wizard, red fury, quickblood, beguile, armour of destiny, ogreblade/sword of quarrel, enchanted shield

Necromancer @150P
lvl2 wizard, dispellscroll, book of arkhan

40 Skelletons @255P
full command, screaming banner

60 Zombies @180P
banner, musician

5 Dire wolves @40P

5 Dire wolves @40P

25 Grave guard @355P

3 Vargheists @138P

2x1 Varghulf @350P

I also was thinking about ditching the grave guard complete and swapping it for more vargheists/fellbats/bat swarms, since I wantet a beast theme. But I am not sure if I would be able to win a single game then :). What do you think about it?
Alternative I could change the magic lvl´s on my lord for another necromancer, not sure if this is effective?

Thanks for your efforts

Moss
16-07-2013, 02:32
In my opinion, the best part about VC is having your main caster/combat threat combined into the same model. He's expensive, but it ultimately saves you the trouble of protecting two individuals.

As for your particular build, I think heavy armor and talisman of preservation is a point or two cheaper than Armor of Destiny.

And I wasn't advocating combining the zombies; in fact, you had the right idea by placing the necromancer in a dedicated 20-man bunker. I was just warning you against throwing the zombies at a unit of saurus (or something comparable) and thinking they'll tarpit them.

I'm not trying to press the issue (because 25 GG should do just fine), but why does taking more GG prevent you from keeping the vargheists? You're allowed to take 1000pts of Special units.

I've never played a list without GG or black knights. I don't think I can offer any advice on the topic.

mr_gosh_the_return
16-07-2013, 09:12
If you're going with the bestial theme, I'd drop the Grave Guard and the 40 zombies and replace them with ghouls and crypt horrors. Zombies die in cc against everything (expect to lose against even skavenslaves). Agains Saurus for example you'll lose about 10 per turn and the same again through crumble.

If you were playing a magic heavy list you need more casting, lose the 2nd hand weapon, make your lord a L4, add dark acolyte and make sure your armoured to the hilt and have an enchanted item with a bound spell in it, risky though as one miscast and you're a gonner. Most people would probably take a master necromancer and add a cc tooled hero for combat duties, make him your BSB and a vampire and you also have a L1 wizard that will kill stuff (EG Dragonhelm, Seeds of Rebirth, Heavy armour, shield, Sword of might, red fury and bsb, gives you a 3+/6++ unless they have flaming attacks in which case its 3+/2++ and 4x S6 attacks)

This gives you a L4 caster, a L2 necromancer and a L1 Combat vampire. Thats your casting and challenges sorted. Use them to buff grave guard and you have a really tough unit that just keeps getting back up.

If you are wanting a more bestial vamp you really wanna stack ogre blade, red fury and quickblood for 5 attacks, rerolling falied hits, S7 then any wounds give extra attacks. you probably will cause 6-7 wounds against most infantry and will win any challenges against all but extremely tooled up chaos lords and bloodthirsters. Add some good save stuff (you should aim for 3+/4++) and yoru sorted.

Vargheists, you need a plan for. As skirmish hunters or war machine/archer hunters they are amazing but if you go against a dedicated cc army they fall flat. Don't think of them supporting zombies (a mistake i made once) as they die due to the crumble your zombies cause. Never put anything in with zombies.

I love vargulfs, just remember they still get 1 wound back from invocation, they should always get to combat with full wounds and can reliably cause damage against most things. They excel at supporting elite units or again small unit hunting.

I'[m no expert though, so take all this with a pinch of salt. Good gaming

Davithedrone
16-07-2013, 11:22
Hey guy´s,

I was just checking your answers and I feel pretty stupid. I thought special was 25% only also. That will change pretty much almost everything and I have to think about it again. I will come back with my thoughts in a few days.

Just a few things before I go back to it. Armor of destiny with enchanted shield gives me 3+/4+ and is 1P cheaper than heavy armor, ench. shield and talisman of preservation. But I am not 100% sure if i can take armor of destiny and ench. shield on the same charakter, both count as magical armor but one is a buckler so it should work or not?
I think i will stay with a cc lord because I can use/model him as a beast leading beast´s :D, what is exactly what I want.
About crypt horrors and ghouls, I will think over it and let you know to which conclusion i got.

Thanks for your response.

Rypher
17-07-2013, 02:55
It's 1 point cheaper, but also illegal. Since AoDestiny is magic armour and the charmed shield is also magic armour, you can't have both. Personally, I run mine with Heavy armour, shield, Talisman of Preservation, and a Dragonhelm for a 3+/4++ and a 2++ against all flaming attacks. Plus on either a hellsteed or a barded nightmare for a 2+ or 1+, respectively.

Davithedrone
18-07-2013, 12:56
Hi and thanks for all responses,

I was thinking a bit and this is the result.

First I tried a full on beast theme with swapping the grave guard for crypt horrors and that was the result (2000P)

Vampirelord @431
lvl2 wizard, heavy armor, ench. shield, talisman of preservation, ogreblade, red fury, quickblood

Necromancer @125
lvl2 wizard, book of arkhan

Necromancer @90
lvl1 wizard, dispellscroll

37 Skelletons @220
banner, screaming banner

20 Ghouls @200

5 Dire wolves @40

5 Dire wolves @40

6 Crypt horrors @228

6 Vargheists @276

2x1 Varghulf @350

But to be honest, I dont know what I should think about the crypt horrors and ghouls.
So I thought about a list with grave guard again, but there was a problem, they are no beasts. After a few lists and days of thinking I got the Inspiration, who says i cant have a beast theme and grave guards all in one list.
And there my friends is where I need your help for my idea.

First of all my list which i was thinking about (2000P):

Vampirelord @451
lvl2 wizard, heavy armor, ench. shield, talisman of preservation, ogreblade, quickblood, fear incarnate

Necromancer @125
Dispellscroll

40 Skelletons @235
banner, screaming banner

40 Zombies @130
banner, musician

5 Dire wolves @40

5 Dire wolves @40

30 Grave guard @410
full command, banner of barrows

3 Fellbats @48

6 Vargheists @277
vargoyle

1 Varghulf @175

And here is my Idea: I wanted a beast theme and after a bit I thought of the idea of a degenerated vampire clan, which transform their victims into a mixture of bats and humans, kinda like "mini-vargheists". And these I want to use as grave guard.
For this I wanted to mix the grave guard with gor/ungor body´s of the beastmen but i am not yet sure what to use as head. Any ideas?

At last:
-what do you think about both army list´s?
-what do you think about my idea of "mini-vargheists" and any Inspiration for the modifications?

I would appreciate your comments.

Thank you in advance

Davithedrone
26-07-2013, 12:27
No love for VC´s?

spagg
26-07-2013, 15:28
In the first list, 20 ghouls is not enough if your going to run them. Ghouls need to be between 35-40 models. You will lose too many of them and 20 won't do you any good.