PDA

View Full Version : Lost contact in close combat



gewaltatron
17-07-2013, 17:05
Hi folks,

so here is a situation we encountered yesterday during a campaign game, Empire vs. WoC.

A stank charges a unit of warriors with some heroes in it. And grinds it down to about 5 models. The stank itself is charged by some dragon ogres. This all is secondary but at one point a unit of Empire Knights charges the remaining unit of warriors, which at this point is only one deep. So maximizing the contacts we arrived at the following situation 174599. The warrior model far to the top actually is a mage which is slain by the knights. The stank then kills the remaining warriors but the one to the bottom (which actually again is a mage) and we arrive at the following 174600.

Now we were discussing, the knights are not in contact anymore and therefore used the rule which says that their causalities still count towards the combat res. but they don´t bring any additional bonus (like standard ....). So far so good.

But someone pointed out that the knights or the mage (remaining warrior) should have moved up/down to restore contact. Now the Knights could not since they were to wide but the mage could.

So here are the questions:
Does somebody move up/down? What if the mage would have been a warrior (champ) would this make a difference, because at this point the mage is a single unit again?
What if the Knights would have been only, say one knight so that they could have bypassed the stank after all the killings?

I am pretty happy with how we handled it but these questions I think came up...

Best,
G

boli
17-07-2013, 17:44
I had something similar happen on sat; this is how we ran with it :

In that situation you should have been removing casualties from the bottom *not* the top.

If removing the last few casualties caused other units to drop out of combat, then priority was given to the initial combat with the other unit counting as if it had destroyed the unit for purposes of over-running/free reforms. If it did overrun to make contact again (e.g. moved up) it didn't count as charging.

Lord Inquisitor
17-07-2013, 17:47
If the unit you were in contact with is still alive then you should fudge things to bring them back in contact unless it would be completely impossible. In the example above, you'd move the last guy in contact with the other unit.

If every unit you were in contact with is dead, then you're out of combat.

Kain187
17-07-2013, 21:24
You can look in the multi combat section of the rulebook. Only way a unit falls out of combat is for the enemy unit to be destroyed. Even in the case of impassable terrain you would adjust the units to make it work.

gewaltatron
17-07-2013, 22:13
guys thanks so far.

in the rule book it is more like an example, which says that this happens mostly because a unit is wiped out. but I agree, I had the same impression after second reading.

Mid'ean
18-07-2013, 14:54
I would have played it as LI stated also. I would have moved the mage up to be in contact with the knights as he is still part of the unit the knights were fighting.

Lord Inquisitor
18-07-2013, 17:01
You know what's funny? I just realised the last remaning model was a character.

Technically when the last model in a unit dies, the character actually becomes a new unit and the old unit is considered destroyed.

Q: At what point after a unit hasbeen wiped out do any
characters remaining count as having left the unit? (p101)
A: As soon as the last model from the unit has been
removed,any remaining characters will count as a new unit.
Note that this will cause Panic tests to all friendly units
within 6" (including the newly formed unit ofcharacter(s))
as the unit has been destroyed.

So I think you could actually make an argument that in this specific case if a character is all that's left then the flanking unit is out of contact. Thoughts? I think the most sensible thing is to fudge as before, but it's an interesting little wrinkle.

Smogg
18-07-2013, 18:36
The way gewaltatron played seems correct to me.

When the warriors takes wounds, casualties must be removed equally from both ends (p45)
But since all the warriors were killed, the mage now counts as a new unit, and does not move.
The knights could not have advanced to stay in contacts with the warriors even if one survived as their own unit is in the way. Destroying the units is described p61 as how you normally would loose contacts with a unit. It does not mean its the only way.

I don't see anything in the rules that would allow the unit to be "fudged around" to make contacts to the knights.

gewaltatron
18-07-2013, 19:50
Hi,

yes I also think by accident (that the last guy was a mage) we played it correctly :). The ´unit´ is destroyed and at this point the mage is not in on its own, leaving the knights out of contact. At the particular moment it was by no means relevant since all the bonuses were already present due to an other unit (not displayed in the sketch) attacking the dragon ogres in the flank. But still I think this scenario is not that rare...

But anyway I think what was said before is true if it would not have been a character.

Thanks for everyone participating.

gewaltatron
18-07-2013, 19:53
The panic test confuses me.

The mage still has to take its break test and is still engaged in close combat. So why should he do a panic test?

iamjack42
18-07-2013, 22:42
The panic test confuses me.

The mage still has to take its break test and is still engaged in close combat. So why should he do a panic test?

If you're referring to the FAQ response, think about a situation where the character is left alone after a shooting or spell attack rather than close combat.

gewaltatron
18-07-2013, 22:45
yes i thought so :D

mjungledog
19-07-2013, 14:37
This happened to me the other day, when a unit of chaos warriors was rear charged by a unit of dark elf Corsairs, contacting the one model in the back rank.

Since the combat took place simultaneously, it didn't matter. When it came time to do combat resolution we counted everything that we normally would have, and had my unit not run we would have moved the corsairs back into combat with the unit...

Efrovius
24-07-2013, 18:06
Referring to the FAQ response, the character is not left alone after a shooting or spell attack. He is in CC. Pg 62 (lrb) says, "It’s worth noting, however, that there are three circumstances under which even the most cowardly of units are not forced to take Panic Tests. A unit does not take Panic Tests if it is in Close Combat – the immediate fray blots out all other events going on around them." So that FAQ only applies to a character left standing after a shooting or magic attack - is that what you are saying, iamjack42?

yeknoMehT
26-07-2013, 15:01
This happened to me the other day, when a unit of chaos warriors was rear charged by a unit of dark elf Corsairs, contacting the one model in the back rank.

Since the combat took place simultaneously, it didn't matter. When it came time to do combat resolution we counted everything that we normally would have, and had my unit not run we would have moved the corsairs back into combat with the unit...

Worth pointing out here that you would be 100% in the rules to keep the two units in contact, and there is no ambiguity over that. The issue described here is over moving units/characters in a multiple combat situation, as described above.