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Bigman
23-07-2013, 18:10
Daemon prince, nurgle, chaos armour, flight, Lvl4, Chaos familiar, flame breath, scaled skin, Biting blade, charmed shield, dragon bane gem. 545

Exalted bsb khorne, juggernaught, dragon helm, talisman endurance, halberd. 246

791 characters

18 warriors nurgle halberds and shields, fc 370

5 dogs 30

5 slannesh horsemen 75

Nurgle chariot 125

600 core

6 dragon ogres GW 408

408 special



Hellcannon 210

5 skullcrushers, ensorcelled weapons. 390

Rare 600

Total 2399

What is the view on this?

It's not net list optimal, but it still creates some hard hitting units.

Everyone will look at daemon prince, but then your ignoring the DO and skull crushers.

Thoughts would be welcomed.

Bigman
25-07-2013, 00:46
Checking for responses!

Machiavellismx
25-07-2013, 08:30
Definately some hard-hitting units there, but a couple of things stand out to me.

First, I think you'll struggle against horde and troop-heavy armies. Vampire Counts and Empire especially spring to mind with big blocks that will outnumber and be tough to crack. You have a lot of hammer, but no anvil.

Second you need a back-up plan if the DP kicks in the first couple of turns. Say you lose the first turn and like you said the DP takes most of the attention, and with a little bit of bad luck he dies - what then? Your army is going to face more 5 turns of gun lines, no magic, and your opponent will simply let you come at him. He won't want to engage you, he'll sit back and hurl cannon-fire and magic.

Third is that Dragon Ogres and Skullcrushers tend to fulfill similar roles. I love both units and the models, but I'd go with the DO's. Frenzy makes Skullcrushers vulnerable; they're best role tends to be flanking-breaking-running down but a good player will bait them out with a poor unit, and hit them on the frenzy overrun. While they're scary, most good players I've met tend to see them as very hit or miss, and won't fear them too much. Dragon Ogres with GW also have a high, high strength, so they'll be your flankers and monster killers. They'll wound on 2's and 3's. Stick with them.

I'd drop the Skullcrushers and DP, and get another big block of infantry and a Sorcerer Lord. It gives you a lot more points to play with, and I think you'll find it'll be more effective. Not as many cool or badass units, but then they're Warriors of Chaos for a reason, Warriors are the core of the army and will be your foundation to build the rest upon.

Bigman
25-07-2013, 09:01
Cheers! I have the models, so will try your idea. I can proxy DO with my skull crushers for now.

Just felt like mixing it up!

How about 6 DO GW's , 3/4 skull crushers with a level 2?

Bigman
25-07-2013, 09:15
Also, my anvil is the skull crushers. 5 of them with bsb. 6 models in two ranks with a 1+ save, toughness 4 and 3 wounds each.

Machiavellismx
25-07-2013, 10:07
Ahh ok, I can see your plan a bit clearer now. I presume you'll place them in the center of the army? The only issue with that is again those huge blocks of infantry - against one or two blocks the SK's can charge head on and should wipe them in combat and if they don't run you can use the horses/chariot to flank, but if you don't wipe them first time and it goes into a protracted battle (especially if you're facing 2-3 blocks and can't hit the flanks) they could get bogged down fighting a unit that cost half their points but is holding them up, especially if they refuse to break. That steadfast rule + enemy general's leadership is going to cause issues against them. Then the other problem you have is if they DO break and you have to overrun, the SK's can open your lines up and leave themselves vulnerable - if they get flanked, at most you have 2 SK's fighting against whatever it is that's hit them. Not a lot for an expensive unit to defend itself with.

Also, it's a lot of if's and maybes, which for a costly unit I'm never too happy about. The more points I spend, the less chance and more likelihood I want of them earning their points back.

Of course the other option you have is take 4 DO's, run them in 2x2 as monster hunters/flankers and keep a unit of 3-4 SK's as the tip of your spear.

Take an extra wizard, the Level 2 minimum. Something I have read but not tried is Slaanesh's lore with the Skullcrushers; if you can force the enemy to strike last with that lore your SK's will slaugther whatever they fight. All the bersekers attacks, and the stomps, and the juggernaughts before anything strikes them? Brutal.

If you have the points to spare, they getting another unit of dogs and giving them vanguard - you can place those two units first to get an idea of the enemy battle lines, and as they're close, they might distract a unit of shooting for a turn. If you lose them, no big deal, and you've gotten your troops a full turn closer.

Let me know how it works out!

Bigman
25-07-2013, 10:24
Need the money for dragon ogres yet, but will do. You are right, it does look like an army of hammers!

Slannesh is a great lore to use. A level 2 with enchanted shield/luck stone would be survivable enough!

BattleofLund
25-07-2013, 11:18
Daemon prince, nurgle, chaos armour, flight, Lvl4, Chaos familiar, flame breath, scaled skin, Biting blade, charmed shield, dragon bane gem. 545


Ahh ok, I can see your plan a bit clearer now. I presume you'll place them in the center of the army? The only issue with that is again those huge blocks of infantry - against one or two blocks the SK's can charge head on and should wipe them in combat and if they don't run you can use the horses/chariot to flank, but if you don't wipe them first time and it goes into a protracted battle (especially if you're facing 2-3 blocks and can't hit the flanks) they could get bogged down fighting a unit that cost half their points but is holding them up, especially if they refuse to break. That steadfast rule + enemy general's leadership is going to cause issues against them.

Take an extra wizard, the Level 2 minimum. Something I have read but not tried is Slaanesh's lore with the Skullcrushers;

Doom and Darkness on your Daemon Prince could help out with mitigating Steadfast against your hammer units.

As for Lore of Slaanesh helping Skullcrushers, more specifics please? While ASL is a good hex thing generally, Skullcrushers have good Initiative already. Being hit later rather than sooner I think is less valuable than having your enemy be at -1 Str&T. So... good old Lore of Death?

Bigman
25-07-2013, 11:37
I've been trialling both death and nurgle. Thought I was sold on death until last game where nurgle gifted me his boon three times, giving my DP toughness 8 and 5 wounds lol

It's a toss up. Death works well with hellcannon ( Death Star panics at -4 ld? Yes please!) but nurgle makes my strengths even larger and gives some magical missiles and breath weapons to deal with stuff.

Mullitron
25-07-2013, 12:11
Doom and Darkness on your Daemon Prince could help out with mitigating Steadfast against your hammer units.

As for Lore of Slaanesh helping Skullcrushers, more specifics please? While ASL is a good hex thing generally, Skullcrushers have good Initiative already. Being hit later rather than sooner I think is less valuable than having your enemy be at -1 Str&T. So... good old Lore of Death?

I believe that the synergy between the lore of Slaanesh and skullcrushers mentioned is in reference to the Hysterical frenzy spell. The crushers already are effected by frenzy so that's not a problem, they gain an additional attack whilst their high save keeps them safe from the d6 strength 3 hits at the end of the phase.

As for the list, I like it. I would suggest trying to find the points to put a command in the skullcrusher unit, normally I would leave a champion out of the unit but with your exalted champion in the unit you may want a champion to accept challenges on his behalf. Again if you can find the 5 extra points I would swap the talisman of endurance and dragon helm for the talisman of preservation, Though maybe you face more opponents with flaming attacks than I do.

Machiavellismx
25-07-2013, 12:13
Doom and Darkness on your Daemon Prince could help out with mitigating Steadfast against your hammer units.

As for Lore of Slaanesh helping Skullcrushers, more specifics please? While ASL is a good hex thing generally, Skullcrushers have good Initiative already. Being hit later rather than sooner I think is less valuable than having your enemy be at -1 Str&T. So... good old Lore of Death?

The Lore of Slaanesh has a couple of ASL spells. While the Skullcrushers themselves have good initiative, the Juggernaughts do not, they have I2. ASL means both the riders and mounts get their attacks in first - so the Juggers get their WS5 S5 three attacks, plus stomp, before the enemy even strikes. That's brutal and will ruin lesser units, and high initiative low toughness units like elves, which Chaos tends to do poorly against.

Korpacz
25-07-2013, 19:54
I think your list looks good, the only thing I'd strongly recommend changing is getting rid of the warrior block. I play very fast and mobile lists too, those types of lists need to be in combat by turn 2 to minimize the magic and shooting they take and I've found that warrior blocks just get left in the dust. By the time they get close to the opponent's battle line it's turn 3 and they may not be in a good spot/angle to join a combat. I'd trade them out for another chariot, 3 more dogs and another unit of marauder horsemen for chasing down warmachines.

I'd also recommend getting vanguard for all your dogs. With this type of list having 3-6 vanguarding your dogs vanguard 12 and move another 14, so you can get them straight into the opponent's face. This does 2 things, (1) It lets you move your combat units up as far as possible without worrying about being charged, this helps you get an easy 2nd round charge off with little to no risk of exposing your units, (2) It prevents your opponent from moving - if he charges the dogs he's exposing his units, if he stands still he can't position his units to better receive yours.

Finally - 5 skullcrushers is a HUGE unit that can be easily led around the board by cheap chaff. Plus you're paying for attacks you don't get in the second rank. Consider dropping it to 3-4 guys, or break it up into two units of 3.

Bigman
25-07-2013, 21:35
All great points which I will look at trialling in the future.

The warriors are there because although slow, they can do a few things cav can't (namely occupy a watch tower)

Also have found that bring slower actually allows then to react a little more to my opponents charges. Both DO and SK are much better when being or making a charge. The warriors also give me a good place for a banner for B&G.

All points so far have been positive so I will try a few things and see how it goes.

bambamBIGILO
26-07-2013, 14:11
@bigman our princes dont roll on the table man no boons im afraid. good point though we dont have to challenge either rather handy for enemy character sniping tho.

try the halberg warriors with khorne they dont lose fights pretty much ever, as long as they bsb is around frenzy isnt that big a deal.

i see the plan with the anvil crushers but try them out as a min unit with mus and standard, if ppl waste entire rounds of shooting/magic to kill them great everything else is getting there and you havent wasted mant points scaring them ( i like the +1 leadership banner on them, hard to fail a frenzy roll at leader 9 with a bsb)

If your going nurgle theme cool but again i prefer chariot with khorne( extra 2 attacks one for each charioteer)

try and fit in a chimerea lends a nice distraction for ppl shooting at your prince. if they have to choose between prince, chimera, crushers at least something is getting across the board to smash face.

my two cents take it or leave it, happy gaming :-)

Bigman
26-07-2013, 15:58
The boon table isn't that. I'm talking about the nurgle lore attribute.

After a successful cast , roll a d6. On a 6 gain +1 T/W for remainder of game.

bambamBIGILO
26-07-2013, 16:03
Ah seen my mistake, ill face palm myself :-)

Bigman
26-07-2013, 17:39
No need! I wasn't clear.

That is one of the more difficult choices and may well come down to a coin toss on list submission/writing. Both Loren have great benefits for the list. It's a choice between sniping and buffing/hexing.

Death does well against monster lists as well.