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thrawn
25-07-2013, 14:43
Hi all, this is some feedback and some opinions i have about the new high elf book (based on the games i've played) and also some feedback about the high elf lists being used at the ETC. Ben Curry also did an excellent feedback pod cast @ his site bad dice so you can check that out as well.

originally i ran a lothern seaguard/sword master list, with appropriate chaff (reavers, shadow warriors, great eagles, RBTs, phoenix') archmage, BSB, some heros, and had some success. now i'm running an archers/sword masters list instead, with archmage, loremaster, chaff and BSB.

what i am finding.

i really miss having two blocks (lothern and swordmasters) but will exhaust this before i change back.
having a lore master and archmage is almost a waste. the loremaster has a great spell selection, but only shines with the book of hoeth. you then can't use the book of hoeth to dispel though (unless you use your loremaster which is silly). therefore it's not worth giving the loremaster the book of hoeth, therefore he is not as good an option as the archmage. i'm going back to an archmage with the book.

with that in mind, i'm thinking of taking some ques from the ETC lists. the more powerful ones are geared towards speed and deathstar/busses. the lists that seem to stand out and shine are lords on stardragons and dragon prince busses. i think a dragon prince bus with a prince, BSB, noble and archmage with lore of death/life, will be really devestating. but i don't think i'd personally struggle against such a list. it would get chaffed all game and i'll happily kill everything else.

the stardragon/prince combo is a calculated risk. so long as you don't encounter dwarfs (which you won't, no one will take the current dwarfs to the ETC) or empire or deamons you've got a really solid chance to win the game. no other flying monster can touch that star dragon so you can't get pinned down, and being able to fly will dictate where and when he's going. i've decided to run something similar, but not put all my eggs in one basket.

thrawn
25-07-2013, 14:58
so my new-ish list is kind of as follows. an archmage (level 4, lore of life) with book of hoeth, crown of atrazar, caradryan on ashtari, BSB (shield of merwyrm, khaines ring, cheap 5 point sword) 6 units of 5 reavers for core, 27 sword masters FC, BotWD, frost phoenix, flame phoenix, great eagle.

this is my question to you warseer:

what do you think of the high elf ETC lists? what would you take? if you were facing one of those lists would you be afraid?

sigmarus
25-07-2013, 16:44
Why do you prefer Swordmasters over White Lions? Now that they do not have re-rolls while using GW, I find that White Lions are much better.

Do you know of a link to the official ETC comp rules? I cannot seem to find an updated version of them.

I currently run an archmage, mage, bsb, 2x15 archers, 12 silver helms, 20 white lions, 17 phoenix guard, 2 tiranoc chariots, 2 eagles, 2 bolt throwers, frost phoenix. (variations of that). Even though I am very good at using my chariots, I feel like I will drop them to boost my blocks and reduce easy VP for my opponent. Could also drop some silver helms for ellyrion reavers.

cptcosmic
26-07-2013, 10:18
I saw some of the ETC and alot of them are very low model count deathstar armies with a few monsters here and there. imho it looks like the ETC meta evolved backwards. T3 armies going for deathstars with only 40 models on the table? we had the "deathstar" mentality not long ago too in my local stores but this ended pretty fast once some of the bored people started to bring MMU lists. a MMU list with magic missile spam, a bit of chaff and some tools against high toughness/armor hard counters the majority of the the ETC lists. every loss hurts if you have only 40 models on the board. the first magic + shooting phase could (despite the high durability of those units) wipe 5-10 models out which is 1/4 of your bodies. additionally if you clear the chaff (if they actually have any at all) you can dictate movement and decide who is going to fight. 2-4 cheap chaff units in your army and you can redirecting/block out the deathstar thus it wont yield any major VP. it might be nice that your 1200 point unit does not give any VP points away but when it is blocked by units worth 1/6 of its value then you are 1000 points behind in fighting power. beside that, those deathstar armies are really boring to play with and against.

thrawn
26-07-2013, 17:09
I saw some of the ETC and alot of them are very low model count deathstar armies with a few monsters here and there. imho it looks like the ETC meta evolved backwards. T3 armies going for deathstars with only 40 models on the table? we had the "deathstar" mentality not long ago too in my local stores but this ended pretty fast once some of the bored people started to bring MMU lists. a MMU list with magic missile spam, a bit of chaff and some tools against high toughness/armor hard counters the majority of the the ETC lists. every loss hurts if you have only 40 models on the board. the first magic + shooting phase could (despite the high durability of those units) wipe 5-10 models out which is 1/4 of your bodies. additionally if you clear the chaff (if they actually have any at all) you can dictate movement and decide who is going to fight. 2-4 cheap chaff units in your army and you can redirecting/block out the deathstar thus it wont yield any major VP. it might be nice that your 1200 point unit does not give any VP points away but when it is blocked by units worth 1/6 of its value then you are 1000 points behind in fighting power. beside that, those deathstar armies are really boring to play with and against.

so i'm pretty certain they can deal with chaff and the likes, seeing this is one of the biggest warhammer tournaments of the year, i'm sure the players know what they're doing. however i do agree, i'm not sure how they plan to go for victory unless it's more points denial then getting them. i have noticed most HE lists included a level 4 death mage, maybe they're tactic is to get chaffed but not give up any points, and then try to pick up big points by sniping your characters? i don't know.

Lord Solar Plexus
27-07-2013, 06:38
Why can you not use the Book on dispels? Is that generic or due to ETC restrictions?

cptcosmic
29-07-2013, 09:30
so i'm pretty certain they can deal with chaff and the likes, seeing this is one of the biggest warhammer tournaments of the year, i'm sure the players know what they're doing. however i do agree, i'm not sure how they plan to go for victory unless it's more points denial then getting them. i have noticed most HE lists included a level 4 death mage, maybe they're tactic is to get chaffed but not give up any points, and then try to pick up big points by sniping your characters? i don't know.
the death lore can autowin with purple sun against some armies and is taken against big stuff mainly (monster mash lists are very popular now). monster lists usually do not sport the big magic defense due to lack of points and the monsters usually have low characteristics to test against thus death lore is a hard counter against it. additionally it helps against some armies that rely on cheap characters but against the lvl 4 + lvl 2 scroll defense the death lore wont do anything meaningful the first enemy magic phase and it certainly wont autowipe your characters in the second enemy magic phase. some characters are very resilent and can also be protected well.

anyway you need magic missiles and shooting to deal with chaff and those deathstar armies dont have much of it. I dont see how they are going to win a chaff war with almost no antichaff.


Why can you not use the Book on dispels? Is that generic or due to ETC restrictions?
this is also news for me.

Oberon
29-07-2013, 09:47
I think it's funny you are looking for ETC lists as guidance and then go ahead and take Caradryan with Ashtari. I thought there were no special characters in ETC?

@Lord Solar Plexus: I guess he meant that it wasn't optimal to use book on dispels because he had the book on his loremaster, who is only LV2. He even hinted at that he would have to use LM if he wanted to dispel with the book.

6x5 reavers, I'm sad.