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sini
01-08-2013, 23:45
in my gaming group there is a WoC player that likes to give his characters Armour save below 0, Making it so that when you wound him with strength 4 he still saves on 1+ in the Faq it says "Note that a save of any kind can never be better than 1+. This does not prevent a model
having items or special rules that would take the save even lower, it simply caps the saving throw at 1+. Also, remember that a roll of 1 is always a failure.
Now i would think that this affect the As soo that even if he has as -1 it stops at 1+ so from a S4 attack he would be saving on a roll of 2+, but his argument is that there is nothing that stops that save from going below 1+, since the rules say that the saving throw can't go lower than 1+ and there for even with As-10 he still fails on a roll of 1.

T10
02-08-2013, 07:16
"Note that a save of any kind can never be better than 1+. This does not prevent a model having items or special rules that would take the save even lower, it simply caps the saving throw at 1+. Also, remember that a roll of 1 is always a failure.”

In practical terms this means that when the model with an Armour Save of 0+ or better is required to take an armour save, you first cap the save at 1+ and then you apply the save modifiers.

So if the model takes a S5 hit, his save is first capped at 1+, then the -2 modifier applies, and the effective Armour Save is 3+.

However, notice that according to the FAQ the model's armour save is "never" better than 1+. It doesn't specify when the cap is applied: Is is at the start of the game? Does the uncapped armour save provide a buffer against Armour Save reducing effects? Some of these issues you'll just have to work out with your opponent as they come into play.

-T10

kefkah
02-08-2013, 07:29
T10 is very right.

Just tell him yes, you can any combination of armour-save, magic item, shield pf potolos, mounts etc etc you want to get your armour save in the negatives (+0+-1 etc) but it will always start at 1+, so going above and beyond wont improve your chanses if saving.

warplock
02-08-2013, 08:11
his argument is that there is nothing that stops that save from going below 1+, since the rules say that the saving throw can't go lower than 1+ and there for even with As-10 he still fails on a roll of 1.

Every so often I hear of someone who has managed to come up with this, and it never fails to surprise me. There's a very simple method to make him see the error of his ways.

Ask him what he would do if the rules simply stated "Armour saves always fail on a 1" and mentioned nothing about being capped at 1+. He will do the same as he does now, of course - this is what it was like in some previous additions. He can get 0+, -1+ etc, but if he rolls a '1' it still fails.
Okay, so now ask him what additional information the "Armour saves are capped at 1+" is providing, then. If he's allowing himself to get a 0+ save, but then claiming that he is still using the 1+ cap, think about how that doesn't even make sense. The only way his argument could work is if it was a 2+ cap. That was you could conceivably construct an argument around having a 0+ armour save for armour modification services, but when rolling to make a save you still fail on a 1 "because the roll is capped at 2+".

As it happens, this is still incorrect, because the roll is not capped - the save is. If at any time and for any purpose - armour save roll, armour modification, or anything else - he is using a figure better than 1+, that's very clearly prohibited by the rules.