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naloth
06-08-2013, 20:59
So having finally read it, it looks that you can't restrain pursuit without a skink but if you're not obligated to pursue if you wouldn't have needed to anyway (say, you wiped out the opponents and wouldn't normally need to pursue). Odd rule.

T10
07-08-2013, 10:04
I don't think a situation where you cannot pursue is the same as not needing to pursue.

If you wipe out the enemy unit you don't pursue. You may be allowed to overrun, which is a very similar thing but not the same.

-T10

naloth
07-08-2013, 13:58
I don't think a situation where you cannot pursue is the same as not needing to pursue.

If you wipe out the enemy unit you don't pursue. You may be allowed to overrun, which is a very similar thing but not the same.


I believe they are all under the Pursuit rules, but since we really aren't disagreeing it's pretty academic. The more interesting bit is that most other troops that need to pursue also have had to overrun as well... In some editions they were even obligated to charge. It seems like a very selective amount of bloodlust.

T10
07-08-2013, 14:09
Think of it this way: The Saurus will instinctively hunt its prey and chase after it as it flees. If it's not fleeing, then there is no compulsion to chase. And it's not fleeing if it's dead.

-T10

bigbiggles
08-08-2013, 08:22
Seems to me that if a wipeout occurs, then you won't have to overrun. ''Half'' the benefit of frenzy, half the downsides

Spiney Norman
08-08-2013, 11:35
Seems to me that if a wipeout occurs, then you won't have to overrun. ''Half'' the benefit of frenzy, half the downsides

You mean 1/3 the benefit of frenzy, an extra attack on a 6 to hit is a far cry from a guaranteed extra attack...

bigbiggles
08-08-2013, 19:20
Yeah, unless they FAQ it to work with all ranks

Dragonrage5454
13-08-2013, 10:52
Yeah, unless they FAQ it to work with all ranks

Well in my Game Store I have been playing it as if it does and I still dont think the up-side is worth the downside. I really hope a slann can hold them back when the FAQ comes out.

furrie
13-08-2013, 11:15
Yeah, unless they FAQ it to work with all ranks
Its not realy clear if it works on all ranks or not.

T10
13-08-2013, 12:15
Can a model with the Predatory Fighter gain bonus attacks when making supporting attacks?


No, because the rules for supporting attacks limits this to one attack per model, regardless of Attack characteristic or bonus attacks.
Yes, because the Predatory Fighter special rule states the model makes another attack.


Take your pick.

Personally I think the limit laid down by the supporting attacks preculdes the kind of bonus attacks provided by the Predatory Fighter special rule. The latter lacks specific exception to the limit imposed by the former.

-T10

yeknoMehT
13-08-2013, 12:28
You mean 1/3 the benefit of frenzy, an extra attack on a 6 to hit is a far cry from a guaranteed extra attack...

Well, it's not a guaranteed extra attack though, as you lose it forever if you've lost a single round of combat. OK, so it's not a huge detriment, but we're not talking huge differences here either - approximately 1/3 the benefit (more for characters), but you can't lose it, and the down side can be removed by having a single fairly cheap character knocking about.

ArtificerArmour
13-08-2013, 15:57
And hopefully the skink oracle will class as a skink character when the faq rolls around

T10
14-08-2013, 09:23
I think you're right.



Q. Is the skink rider on the Troglodon a Character? I really need to stop my Saurus from running off into the horizon, and I can't be bothered to buy Skink Heroes.
A. Sure, why not.


EDIT: I'm being sarcastinc. Of course the rider isn't a character!

Mr_Rose
14-08-2013, 10:53
Why shouldn't he be?
Lone dude, riding a big monster; seems fairly character-y, especially with the ability to channel power dice and have spells cast through him…

ArtificerArmour
14-08-2013, 12:13
But he cannot challenge or be challenged.

LM player: Is it yellow?
Tournament gamer: Yes
LM player: Is it tasty with a bend in the middle?
Tournament gamer: Yes
LM player: Then it's a banana
Tournament gamer: But technically RAW it could be a croissant that's been painted iyaden darksun, we need an FAQ before we can peel it open and eat it.

yeknoMehT
14-08-2013, 12:53
Why shouldn't he be?
Lone dude, riding a big monster; seems fairly character-y, especially with the ability to channel power dice and have spells cast through him…

Does he come out of the lords/heroes points allowance? If not I'd be exceptionally hesitant. Pink horrors can channel power dice and cast spells - that doesn't make them a character at all though.

ArtificerArmour
14-08-2013, 13:29
Yes but the lizardmen book goes into great lengths fluffwise describing how skink oracles are these great rare characters and they're well revered etc etc.

fluff =/= rules, but one would think as it counts as a skink character for all other purposes (casting through etc) it would have an exception made. Again, needs an FAQ

naloth
14-08-2013, 14:38
Does he come out of the lords/heroes points allowance? If not I'd be exceptionally hesitant. Pink horrors can channel power dice and cast spells - that doesn't make them a character at all though.

That's a bad example since characters don't have to be wizards and challenges can be made by champions regardless of which section they are purchased from. Horrors also have reasonably good rules on how to use them as wizards.

That being said, it would have been reasonable to place the Oracle in the characters section or to note him as a champion. Neither was done, and since characters riding monsters usually have different rules that particular rule looks pretty clear and intentional.

Spiney Norman
17-08-2013, 16:32
Why shouldn't he be?
Lone dude, riding a big monster; seems fairly character-y, especially with the ability to channel power dice and have spells cast through him…

Well firstly because the skink oracle does not have the troop sub-type "character". Whether you are a character or not is ALL about your troop type, it is nothing to do with fluff or which section you appear in the army list. Models that are characters always have the sub-type "character" in brackets after their main troop type in their army list entry (i.e. Troop type Infantry (character) ).

The slightly longer answer is also because the predatory fighter rule is incredibly specific, it doesn't just say that any 'skink character' within 6" is required to restrain pursuit, it actually goes on to describe the models that count for the purposes of Pred fighter as "skink chieftains and skink priests including Tehenhauin, Tetto Eko and Tiktaq'to".

Quite apart from the fact that the list seems to have been carefully written to ensure that the skink oracle does not count for pred fighter, its also noticeable that Oxyotl is not on the list either, which is puzzling since he definitely is a 'skink character model', which the skink oracle is definitely not.

There is no need for an FAQ here, there is nothing at all to suggest that a skink oracle is a character and nothing to suggest that he should count as one for the purposes of restraining pursuit on PF units, on the other hand I think it would be nice to have an FAQ answer to whether or not Oxyotl allows PF to restrain as he is conspicuously missing from the list of special characters that do have that effect, but he does fulfil all the criteria for a model that should be able to allow pf units to restrain pursuit (namely that he is a skink and a character).