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View Full Version : How do you protect your Vampire Lord?



Eternus
08-08-2013, 10:20
Ok guys, just curious to see how you balance offensive and defensive capabilities to ensure your Vampire Lord is having a detrimental effect on the health of the opposing army, while at the same time keeping him/her in one piece?

Speaking as a casual gamer, I know I could go for a 2+ armour save (on foot) and a 4+ Ward, but that's expensive for a model I want to have hitting power in combat as well. I really want to try the Nightshroud, so I've gone with that, Heavy Armour and Shield for a 3+ Save, but also he will typically always get to hit first thanks to the Night Shroud, and he's carrying the Ogre Blade for some high strength goodness. For powers, I love Aura of Dark Majesty, which I've combined with Fear Incarnate, and there's a Banshee in his unit as well, meaning when the unit is Engaged her Scream is hitting at -3 to the enemy Ld.

Being as he is leading a Horde of Grave Guard with Great Weapons and the flaming banner, he will have hard hitting back up that will strike at least at the same time as the enemy the Vampire is facing due to the Night Shroud, and as the enemy get no strength bonuses from any weapons when attacking the Vampire Lord, I only need to worry about big monsters with a ton of attacks and high strength. I plan on using the Banshee Scream (combined with Aura of Dark Majesty I hope) to reduce such monsters down to a managable number of wounds before the Vampire finishes them off with his 5 Str 7 attacks.

It's just a shame the Vampire's Ogre Blade can't be flaming as well, because he will hit monsters with regen before the flaming Grave Guard get to strike and knock off the regen.

Thoughts?

Wesser
08-08-2013, 11:58
My most common build is just Enchanted Shield and MR2 trinket and then put in Blood Knights with Flag of Blood Keep.

2+ save against spells and since they have INI/STR 5+ they also have what amounts to a2+ save versus the uberspells.

LOS and the Flag protects him decently against sniping and shooting in general.

I can usually rely on this unit to tear apart anything they encounter in CC, so as long as I don't allow opponents to play frenzy against me, the unit is very hard to stop

Vipoid
08-08-2013, 14:02
Ok guys, just curious to see how you balance offensive and defensive capabilities to ensure your Vampire Lord is having a detrimental effect on the health of the opposing army, while at the same time keeping him/her in one piece?

Well, this is the most common build I run, for a 2000pt list:

Vampire Lord - 494
- Lv3
- Ogre Blade, Talisman of Preservation, Other Trickster's Shard
- Red Fury, Quickblood, Beguile

(Or Lv4 and drop OTS and beguile)

Basically, I consider the 4+ ward save mandatory (since he's the most important model in your army). After that, a 4+ armour (from mundane gear), or 3+ (with dragonhelm, enchanted shield or Nightshroud) is usually enough protection for him. If you have the points, I find beguile a nice bonus if he ends up in contact with a monster or character.

Anyway, whilst they've practically become a cliché, I still go for Red Fury and Quickblood over all the other powers. See, with the above protection, I find that the main threat to my vampire lord isn't enemy attacks - it's combat resolution. It doesn't matter what saves he has if he isn't allowed to take them. Red Fury really helps in this regard - since it doubles the potential wounds he can cause, making up for the ineptitude of his squad. Quickblood also helps, since it makes his attacks far more reliable and so improves both his regular attacks and any extra ones he receives from red fury. Same goes for other trickster's shard (if you can spare the points) - it's very useful against a lot of enemies, and even denying parry saves helps you make the most out of red fury.

If I was going to run Nightshroud:

Vampire Lord - 494
- Lv3
- Sword of Anti-Heroes (best weapon he can afford), Nightshroud, Talisman of Endurance
- Red Fury, Quickblood, Beguile

This is probably the only scenario where I wouldn't give him a 4+ ward - simply because I want him to have a decent magic weapon.


Speaking as a casual gamer, I know I could go for a 2+ armour save (on foot) and a 4+ Ward, but that's expensive for a model I want to have hitting power in combat as well.

Don't bother with the Armour of Silvered Steel. If you really want him to have a 2+ save, give him a mount. Otherwise, it eats up far too much of your item allowance.


I really want to try the Nightshroud, so I've gone with that, Heavy Armour and Shield for a 3+ Save, but also he will typically always get to hit first thanks to the Night Shroud, and he's carrying the Ogre Blade for some high strength goodness.

I'd probably swap the Ogre Blade for Talisman of Endurance and a cheaper weapon. I'd *never* want to use a vampire lord with no ward save.


For powers, I love Aura of Dark Majesty, which I've combined with Fear Incarnate, and there's a Banshee in his unit as well, meaning when the unit is Engaged her Scream is hitting at -3 to the enemy Ld.

A couple of things:

1) Don't you mean -1Ld, not -3?

2) I personally wouldn't bother with Fear Incarnate or Aura of Dark Majesty on a Lord. I want to get the best use out of his statline and the fact that he can take 100pts of vampire powers (plus, I find fear to be terrible in this edition, and investing points in it seems like throwing good points after bad). Anyway, if I was going to include those in my army, I'd take a hero vampire and give them to him instead.


Being as he is leading a Horde of Grave Guard with Great Weapons and the flaming banner, he will have hard hitting back up that will strike at least at the same time as the enemy the Vampire is facing due to the Night Shroud, and as the enemy get no strength bonuses from any weapons when attacking the Vampire Lord, I only need to worry about big monsters with a ton of attacks and high strength. I plan on using the Banshee Scream (combined with Aura of Dark Majesty I hope) to reduce such monsters down to a managable number of wounds before the Vampire finishes them off with his 5 Str 7 attacks.

It's just a shame the Vampire's Ogre Blade can't be flaming as well, because he will hit monsters with regen before the flaming Grave Guard get to strike and knock off the regen.

Thoughts?

Do you think you might be focussing/relying a little too much on your banshee's scream? Even with the enemy at -1Ld, it just seems like 2d6+2 won't do a great deal. I could be wrong though.

Also, have you considered putting your Vampire Lord with a different unit - ghouls or skeletons, perhaps? I ask because GG can usually handle themselves (especially if you give them Banner of the barrows), whilst our core units usually need support to stop them bleeding CR.

The Clairvoyant
08-08-2013, 14:17
I always go for Nightshroud, the 5+ ward and Sword of Anti-heroes. Powers are Red Fury, Quickblood and either beguile or dreadknight.
Basically, I run him on the basis that the safest place for him in combat is in a challenge against an enemy hero. The nightshroud stops those pesky dark elf assassins with their higher initative and ASF, whilst quickblood gives him rerolls to hit against most opponents. Given that he's in a challenge, the extra attacks and strength from the sword mean he should over a couple of rounds eliminate all the characters that get put in the opponents unit. Then he can go on chopping duty. I have considered putting krell in the same unit but still taking dreadknight to get the WS9 while krell does the challenges.

Lordcypress
08-08-2013, 15:09
This is my bread and butter combo:

Vampire lord
Ogre blade, talisman of preservation, dragon helm, bardednightmare, heavy armour, Sheild,red fury, quick blood,beguile.

Wight king
Nightshoud, bardednightmare, Sheild, luck stone, heavy armour.

The wight king is the vampires personal body guard. I keep them side by side. Characters want to challenge they get to feel the affects of night shroud while fighting a tooled up vampire lord.

Frankly
08-08-2013, 20:17
My most common build is just Enchanted Shield and MR2 trinket and then put in Blood Knights with Flag of Blood Keep.

2+ save against spells and since they have INI/STR 5+ they also have what amounts to a2+ save versus the uberspells.

LOS and the Flag protects him decently against sniping and shooting in general.

I can usually rely on this unit to tear apart anything they encounter in CC, so as long as I don't allow opponents to play frenzy against me, the unit is very hard to stop

I think thats a really really nice UNIT build for the blood knights for a VL without a 4++. I'll certainly try it with S.o.bloodshed and P.o.Strength and get MR+2 on another charaxter. Not super 'optimal', but fun it should be as hell.

Honestly, I'm usually to scared to leave home without a 4+ ward on my V.Lord. She'll always have R.Fury and Q.Blood, its the only reason why I play her, for all that killing power. Mostly always in a cavalry unit, Blood Dragons being my favorite. I'll usually pop a BSB in the unit with some kind of banner.

At the moment I'm just playing around with V.Lords in a GG unit(50+). Usually building the character as defensively as possible, so she's better at taking on all comers and taking on heavy hitting chargers. Dragon helm, Enchanted shield, H.Armour, T.o.Protection. I think was the last set up I used and again, always with R.Fury and Q.Blood.


This is my bread and butter combo:

Vampire lord
Ogre blade, talisman of preservation, dragon helm, bardednightmare, heavy armour, Sheild,red fury, quick blood,beguile.



A nice standard build.

Maoriboy007
09-08-2013, 00:55
My Current Lord:

Barded Nightmare, Heavy Armour, Great Weapon
Nightshroud , Talisman Preservation, Other Tricksters Shard
Quickblood, Beguile

I usually run this build with a naked L4 necromancer to risk all the casting/miscasts while my Lord gets stuck in, he's Str7 without strikes last , has a 2+, 4+ save and negates str bonus' of weapons in base contact, inflicts strikes last and an opponent takes a -3 Ld test or re-rerolls hits. A nice defensive build and not too obnoxious.
If I drop the Necromancer I can add in red fury and make him L4 as well. Doesn't get re-rolls automatically, but ASF re-rolls are a crutch of the game IMO and theres always vanhels.

huitzilopochtli
09-08-2013, 18:40
My vampire lord sits in a bodyguard of black knights with -

Lvl 4
Barded nightmare, heavy armour
Red fury, quickblood
Sword of anti-heroes, enchanted shield, talisman of preservation, the other trickster's shard

It's a tough build but lately I've found him a little bland. I've tried a couple of other builds (on foot, fear bomb, no red fury) but I just don't think he does enough damage without fury and in a unit that's not going to crumble like undead cookies. Any suggestions?

Wesser
09-08-2013, 20:34
Not rly. It's one of the few weaknesses of the book that it is quite hard to justify a Vampire Lord without Red Fury, as none of the other powers rly allows him any other role that you couldnt lob onto a Master Necromancer for half the points.

The best suggestion I can give is to tell (in a friendly manner) to stop being a big baby:). He's a mighty Vampire Lord for Heavens sake! Get out the habit of using only S.Bloodshed, Giant Blade and Anti-Heroes and the same old 4++.

Red Fury is just silly to leave out given there's rly not a lot I'd give him otherwise... but try a combo with Aura of Dark Majesty and Helm of Discord, Glittering Scales and a Zombie Dragonor or try fielding Count Manny..is actually balanced and fairly interesting

Frankly
09-08-2013, 20:57
Yeah, A vampire lord without Red fury just seems like a wasted effort to me. I tried a few different builds when the book cam out to try to get a more utility feel to the character, but Red fury is just such a power house of an ability when added on to a combat character, its really hard to leave off.

Vipoid
09-08-2013, 21:26
I've found the same.

It's sad, but most of the vampire powers are pretty poor. The fear ones seem like a dubious investment at best - even assuming the enemy doesn't just ignore it (unbreakable, frenzy, ItP etc.), IP and BSBs basically negate any fear bonuses you get. Essentially, fear isn't anything you can rely on, and on the rare occasions when you get it off the effect is rarely worth your investment. The magic powers are no better - they're all stupidly overcosted, and most barely do anything. Considering that a Lv4 caster-vampire already costs about twice as much as a master necromancer, it would be nice if his magic-powers were actually worth a damn.

Oh well, hopefully we'll get some better powers in the next book.

Soundwave
13-08-2013, 14:31
I send mine on a mission to die nowdays in a 3 k pnt only! I employ a wight co hort to champion him or keep the unit alive if he cops kb...my primary caster is always a dirty level four necro hanging on one flank with the zombies and skellies and "master of the dead" to create a swamp for holding...this balance has worked best for me so far especially after my vampire "main" caster and general was sucked into the nether regions of the miscast table!!!

Ramius4
14-08-2013, 04:02
Durex or Trojan does the trick. :shifty: (sorry, I could not resist when I saw the thread title!)

Soundwave
14-08-2013, 14:58
Durex or Trojan does the trick. :shifty: (sorry, I could not resist when I saw the thread title!)

Hahaha i guess the blood would be pumping after a good feed!