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Pavic
11-08-2013, 20:00
So, I have been reading through a lot of the threads on this particular model, both on Warseer and other sites, and I have only been seeing a lot of negativity about the bound spell. The main complaint seems to be that it eats into power dice too much to be terribly useful, because obviously the glorious Slann is going to need all of those dice to wallop some warm bloods with high magic or a lot of magic missiles. But my question is, what about a list with no Slann?

Right now I am contemplating a list that includes two Bastiladons with Solar Engines, an Ancient Stegadon with an Engine of the Gods and a Skink Priest to run anti-magic duty. It would seem to me that being able to pump all of one's power dice through these three bound spells could be quite effective. Certainly, your opponent is probably going to have a +2 to +4 advantage over you, but in 90% of cases, he is going to have fewer dispel dice, so one or two of these spells are going to be going off on an average winds of magic roll. In addition, these bound spells do not destroy the Solar Engine or Engine of the Gods when an IF occurs, so you actually want to power through a lot of dice.

Maybe I am looking at this wrong, or maybe I just want to run a whole lot of monsters, but it seems that this would be a perfectly viable strategy. Any thoughts?

Sotek
11-08-2013, 20:06
Ditto, my 2k list doesn't have a slann so 2 bastis, skink priest, EOTG. Use EOTG to give bastis and other stegs 6+ (might save your hide vs cannons), drop the CC of the skinks spells and then chuck a power dice into each sun laser - you've a 66% chance of doing it with one dice. Enemy needs to pop 2 dice into it (since if he gets a 1 or 2 wizard can't dispel...) And it's only 2 power dice for good shooting attacks.

Pavic
11-08-2013, 20:13
But this is actually what I would not do. I would be pumping all of my dice through the SEs and EotG, hoping for IF. With an average WoM roll, I would pop 3 through each SE and 1 through the EoTG, though I may shift this distribution depending upon the position of the EotG. This just seems to me to be the best way to get the most bang out of these models.

Spiney Norman
12-08-2013, 00:11
I generally find in my magic phases that my opponent will usually have 2-3 dice fewer than me, on the case of dwarfs they can often pool as many dice as I do. The beam of Chotec is ok, its mildly useful as a ploy to draw out dispel dice, but since it only does noteworthy damage half the time even on a successful casting its not reliable enough to build a magic phase around.

At the end of the day I still think the solar engine is a better choice than the ark of Sotek, but the bound spell is what it is, a handy tool in a few situations, but lets not pretend its going to win games for you.

Pavic
12-08-2013, 01:44
Sure, it will not win games, but certainly it is worth the 300 point investment. I am just tired of seeing the argument that the Bastiladon is worthless, when really it is a solid support unit.

Sjwood13
12-08-2013, 04:16
Single dice each time, 4 turns of the game, your opponent has to make a bad choice. Risk a 1 dice dispel or throw 2 dice.

jarbo
12-08-2013, 04:56
I think it's really solid. For only 150 points I get a decent bound spell to throw one dice at and +1I on my TG. Sure I3 isn't amazing, but I'd rather loose 50% to purple sun than 66%, but with hand of glory you can get to elf speed.

Spiney Norman
12-08-2013, 08:20
Sure, it will not win games, but certainly it is worth the 300 point investment. I am just tired of seeing the argument that the Bastiladon is worthless, when really it is a solid support unit.

I don't think its worth bringing two until you hit 3k or more, if you want a second basti the ark is probably the better choice because the int buff doesn't stack so you're really just paying those points for a L3 bound spell.

diggerydoom
12-08-2013, 09:35
I tried using a basiladon on saturday. The game itself went badly (as my slann got turned into a clan rat which reduced me to my break point), however the basiladon did give my saurus the novel experience of stiking first against skaven!

Spiney Norman
12-08-2013, 22:11
I tried using a basiladon on saturday. The game itself went badly (as my slann got turned into a clan rat which reduced me to my break point), however the basiladon did give my saurus the novel experience of stiking first against skaven!

Something you might want to talk through with your opponent before your next game. I'm fairly sure that the Slann is not a viable target for curse of the horned rat because his palanquin means he does not count as infantry for the purpose of spells, magic items etc.

AngelofSorrow
12-08-2013, 22:32
Something you might want to talk through with your opponent before your next game. I'm fairly sure that the Slann is not a viable target for curse of the horned rat because his palanquin means he does not count as infantry for the purpose of spells, magic items etc.

Not quite. He doesn't count as a model on foot. He is however infantry. Curse has no such wording as model on foot so fatty can be transformed into a clanrat.

TsukeFox
13-08-2013, 00:25
Dunno i would rather take Razergons over Bastildons. More strength 4 ranged attacks & good chaff hunters

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Gustav Kohn
13-08-2013, 02:37
Don't forget that using one die for each casting forces the opponent to consider one die dispels. If he fails on a 1 or 2 that mage cannot dispel, so that can work to your advantage as well.

Sotek
15-08-2013, 13:52
Don't forget that using one die for each casting forces the opponent to consider one die dispels. If he fails on a 1 or 2 that mage cannot dispel, so that can work to your advantage as well.

Exactly, it's a risk vs reward thing and forces bad choices on your opponent.

Also you get a somewhat decent monster, cheap, it has a s10 attack, no flanks and thunderstomp too.

I was re-reading the ark. It's basically only good in melee. It can launch snakes in combat which helps but there's no mention if it works like dragon breath or if it contributes to melee.

N1AK
15-08-2013, 16:00
So, I have been reading through a lot of the threads on this particular model, both on Warseer and other sites, and I have only been seeing a lot of negativity about the bound spell. The main complaint seems to be that it eats into power dice too much to be terribly useful, because obviously the glorious Slann is going to need all of those dice to wallop some warm bloods with high magic or a lot of magic missiles. But my question is, what about a list with no Slann?

Right now I am contemplating a list that includes two Bastiladons with Solar Engines, an Ancient Stegadon with an Engine of the Gods and a Skink Priest to run anti-magic duty. It would seem to me that being able to pump all of one's power dice through these three bound spells could be quite effective. Certainly, your opponent is probably going to have a +2 to +4 advantage over you, but in 90% of cases, he is going to have fewer dispel dice, so one or two of these spells are going to be going off on an average winds of magic roll. In addition, these bound spells do not destroy the Solar Engine or Engine of the Gods when an IF occurs, so you actually want to power through a lot of dice.

Maybe I am looking at this wrong, or maybe I just want to run a whole lot of monsters, but it seems that this would be a perfectly viable strategy. Any thoughts?

I'd work on the theory that you'll get one spell off (perhaps less) per phase if you are just running bounds. The 'average' roll is 3 & 4 if you split your dice 3, 2, 2 then they can easily stop two of these. You'd be better going 4 & 3 on the two solar engines. Two engines plus a level 2 priest gives you 4 spells to cast, I don't really think the Engine bound adds much more to the list.

I've seen the single casting per Bastilodon in a couple of game and I'm just not persuaded personally. In 4/9 cases you'll get both off and be laughing, in 4/9 you'll get 1 off and be worse off and in 1/9 you'll miss both and be two dice down for nothing. One dice casting might make sense if you really want to try and push a couple of other spells through but know your opponent definitely won't let you cast the bound ability.

maze ironheart
15-08-2013, 16:06
I think people should try thing's before they judge them that is what proxy's are for (As long as you don't take the micky).

N1AK
15-08-2013, 16:10
Don't forget that using one die for each casting forces the opponent to consider one die dispels. If he fails on a 1 or 2 that mage cannot dispel, so that can work to your advantage as well.

Lists without a 2nd caster are pretty rare these days even if they just carry a scroll. If someone casts a bound against me on a 3-5 then I'll either let it through, throw 2 dice or risk 1 dice on my level 2 with a 66% chance of stopping it.

If it's cast with 2 dice then unless you roll poorly (5 or lower) then I'll always end up throwing 2+ dice to stop it (or let it through) because I probably won't risk 1 dice dispels with my level 4.

It's not that 1 dice bound casting is never a good idea, I just don't think you get more spells off that way statistically when playing someone who makes optimum dispel decisions.

Dokushin
15-08-2013, 19:30
Even if they have a spare caster and they successfully dispel on one die, you're always (barring special rules, anyway) going to have more power dice than they will dispel dice. Trading one for one is a really good deal. You have a chance of failing the cast, but they have the same chance of failing the dispel on a successful cast, which is much worse for them than failing the spell is for you, since they lose a die and a caster as well as eating the spell effect.