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View Full Version : Debate on impact hits - Great Weapons increase strength of impact hits



IcedCrow
12-08-2013, 23:55
So its been offered up that great weapons should also work with impact hits.

Impact hits ( p. 71 ) state that you use the model's strength.

Great weapons (p.89) state that modifiers affect the model's strength by +2.

Erego - great weapons giving +2 to strength also mean that if that model makes impact hits that its impact hits are also at +2 Strength.

FAQ states for Orcs and Goblins that the choppa rule allows them to add +1 S to their impact hits.

So then... court is in session ;)

This has come up with the new lizardman book since they have armor that lets them do impact hits, and you can equip said hero with the armor and a great weapon.

Mr_Rose
13-08-2013, 00:16
No.
Great weapons affect attacks made with great weapons.
The Choppas rule is nothing to do with any weapon and just augments Strength.

Thus, great weapons don't affect impact hits because they are not made using the model's weapons.

Also, that FAQ is partially incorrect as it seems to suggest that the Choppas rule should affect the savage Orc big stabba, which is wrong as the stabba has a set strength and specifically says "regardless of the model's own strength" or words to that effect.

Cobra
13-08-2013, 00:20
I agree no bonus to impact hits. I think that anyone that tries to do that would be rule lawyering. By that same argument I could say that my Black Guard only die to dwellers on a 5 or 6 because their halberds increase their strength from 3 to 4.

Blkc57
13-08-2013, 00:45
Q: Does a weapon that gives a bonus to a characteristic only give that bonus when being used to attack a model?(p4) A: Most weapons, including magic weapons, state when the bonus is given. For example, a model with the Fencer’s Blades will always have Weapon Skill 10 whilst a model with a great weapon will only have +2 Strength when striking an enemy in close combat. When a weapon does not say when the characteristic bonus applies, then it only applies when striking, or being struck, in close combat.

Gentlemen I present you again with the official FAQ ruling that great weapons and such will only confer a strength benefit when you are striking with it in close combat, not at any other time. This is separate from the Orc racial ability of "Big Choppa" because that is not a function of the weapon but of the orc himself basically being so strong on the turn he charges he beats the crap out of you with every inch of the weapon as much as he actually wields the blade or cutting edge to stab you.

Glen_Savet
15-08-2013, 00:14
Would the Sword of Anti-Heroes give bonus strength to the impact hits if impacting upon a unit with characters in it?

Wesser
15-08-2013, 08:23
Would the Sword of Anti-Heroes give bonus strength to the impact hits if impacting upon a unit with characters in it?

Nope. Once again the bonus is only for attacks made with that weapon

yeknoMehT
15-08-2013, 17:12
Unless you also applied ASL to the impact hits (which would be weird anyway) there's no way you'd get +2S to the impact hits. Even then, as stated, the FAQ indicates this to be the case anyway.

Glen_Savet
15-08-2013, 22:58
Nope. Once again the bonus is only for attacks made with that weapon

Are you certain? The wording for the sword of anti heroes makes no mention of close combat attacks, only that the bonuses are calculated at the start of each round of combat.

Blkc57
16-08-2013, 00:49
Nope. Once again the bonus is only for attacks made with that weapon

Actually the Sword of Anti-heroes is one of the exceptions, Wesser. Its wording (exactly like that of the Fencer's Blades) states that the bearer of the weapon has the bonus, so in fact you just need to be holding the weapon in your inventory and it increases your strength if in contact with a character. Its super confusing but its easier to just remember that only three weapons can act outside of ever being used in combat, they are Fencer's Blades, Sword of Anti-heroes, and the Shrieking Blade.

EDIT: I have no idea why GW worded the Sword of Anti-heroes like that, maybe they thought since you were required to use a special weapon and its effect is really only used in base contact with an enemy that it would only be ever used in CC anyway.

Grey Seer Kwokka
16-08-2013, 00:50
So then... court is in session ;)

And court is adjourned.

Don't quit your day job, IC.

Wesser
16-08-2013, 08:40
Are you certain? The wording for the sword of anti heroes makes no mention of close combat attacks, only that the bonuses are calculated at the start of each round of combat.

First of all. I really hope people are just arguing for the sake of a theoretical discussion..else it is pretty scary...

Second. If you wish to be pedantic about it Sword of Anti-Heroes doesnt state either that the chariot gets the bonus, and impact hits is resolved at the strength of the chariot, not the character riding it. I'll find a page number later as I don't got the book with me.

Seriously people... If a great weapon increases the STR of the whole model, will an Imperial Griffon then have STR 8 if I put a greatweapon on the rider?

Lord Solar Plexus
16-08-2013, 10:57
Agreed. The argument isn't compelling anyways since:

1. Weapons that don't state when they're used are only used in the actual attack - the Sword of A-H doesn't state when it is used. You can see where this is leading.

2. Swords don't affect steeds anyways. My horse doesn't become stronger from the Sword of A-H, and neither does my Pegasus, Manticore or chariot.

furrie
16-08-2013, 11:37
Agreed. The argument isn't compelling anyways since:

1. Weapons that don't state when they're used are only used in the actual attack - the Sword of A-H doesn't state when it is used. You can see where this is leading.

2. Swords don't affect steeds anyways. My horse doesn't become stronger from the Sword of A-H, and neither does my Pegasus, Manticore or chariot.
There are characters whom themselves have impact hits(ogres), so your second point doesn't stand

Wesser
16-08-2013, 13:24
There are characters whom themselves have impact hits(ogres), so your second point doesn't stand

Only steed avaiable to any ogre character is a stonehorn, who have impact hits that replaces the ogre's... now if an ogre character have a great weapon does that affect the the stonehorn's impact hits? Besides I'm pretty certain the ogre special rule says "Basic Strength".

But if we go to opposite world and play that a great weapon wielded by a character affects the chariots impact hits then surely the impact hits will strike last. Then it's at least balanced as you can whack the chariot before it makes it's hits. Dumm as hell, but fair

furrie
16-08-2013, 13:40
Only steed avaiable to any ogre character is a stonehorn, who have impact hits that replaces the ogre's... now if an ogre character have a great weapon does that affect the the stonehorn's impact hits? Besides I'm pretty certain the ogre special rule says "Basic Strength".

But if we go to opposite world and play that a great weapon wielded by a character affects the chariots impact hits then surely the impact hits will strike last. Then it's at least balanced as you can whack the chariot before it makes it's hits. Dumm as hell, but fair
great weapon never have an effect on the impact hits strength, because of the wording of the great weapon