PDA

View Full Version : Prisons? A Bane Style character, Bunch of ideas viable?



kane40k
13-08-2013, 19:27
Just a quick one, I did a search and didn't find the answer.

Imperial Prisons. I know about the Penal Worlds, but i was wondering, is this the only form of prison in the Imperium? By this i mean do Murderers/Thieves/Anyone who is arrested and convicted in the imperium end up on one of these worlds straight off, are they the sole form of long term detention? Or do some planets/Hives also have a prison, much like the Cities in real life?

Why do i ask this? Well I'm fresh from watching The Dark Night Rises, and I was inspired by Bane's story. What if hive Suffered a similar fate, but 'The Bat' wasn't around to save them, and the guy and his 'homies'/Comrades are too much for the Local Arbites forces. He takes a hive in a similar manner. I'm thinking the reason the City is not just Bombarded to Terra and back is because of a Relic of Great worth/Historical Significance in the city. The Loyalists want it back, but the 'Cult leader has managed to persuade(Think Slaanesh?)/scare/threaten (all of these) the Hive's inhabitants that they need to govern themselves and break from Imperial rule.

He then enlists all the hives criminals/population into his new militia and leaves the planet. I'm thinking he might be a 'Serial Revolutionary'. He does this a lot, then leaves the worlds in turmoil after. He's an Adept of the Black Legion (Ex Alpha Legion that swore allegiance to Abaddon and Donned is colors). That then disappears onto his next venture (A Similar act) leaving no trace, to help swell numbers for the 13th Black Crusade.

This guy is a side character in a 'book' I want to write that is something like a Warzone, AI, fandex, blog lovechild kind of deal-io!

Obv i don't want to write a whole section around this if it's deemed impossible by the fluff. Day 1 of the Fan Project starts today :) I might even Blog this.

Basically is this a plausible story? I am aware i will probably need more Fluff protection for this character.

Iron_Lord
13-08-2013, 21:42
Kage, in the Last Chancers novels, ends up in a prison rather than executed (since Colonel Schaffer thinks he can still make use of him).

childsoldier
14-08-2013, 01:21
I can't think of any examples in the published lore but I'd be surprised if every world didn't have a pretty extensive prison system (think something between modern-day America and Russian gulag). Heresy and the like wouldn't find you in here; it's the firing squad/public hanging/killed on sight for that lot, depending on your level of influence and other factors like who's hunting for you. But yeah, thieves, murderers and the like I could see being held, at least initially, on their homeworld.

I'm not sure from your post if you're intending that the Alpha-turned-Black Legionnaire has been incarcerated in an Imperial prison? But if so, that's a pretty major plot-breaking point. There's no way they'd let him get into a position where he was able to interact with other prisoners. More than likely he'd be killed on sight, or captured by a SM chapter and tortured unto death. But probably just killed on sight.

If, however, he were to infiltrate an Imperial prison world, or come to be in charge of a vast Underhive cult network, I could see that working. The Alpha Legion were a pretty dab hand at rousing a mob. If you go this route Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night would be a good place to look for inspiration. It features a very old and very angry Marine alone in the Underhive and how he uses fear as a weapon, and it's also a very good read. Unfortunately with the HH series I'm not sure it's strictly canon anymore, but it's a good way to get the feel of how your guy might operate.

Personally, I find the idea of him ransoming a Hive a bit far-fetched, as there's pretty much nowhere bar Terra the Imperium wouldn't bomb into oblivion! :D If it were me I'd change it so that he foments all this unrest and sedition with the purpose of weakening the Imperium for the coming Crusade/gaining recruits for his armies, but the Imperium would most likely not allow for time to pass and things to go on as they were, as happened in The Dark Knight Rises (incidentally I didn't like this aspect of the movie either, so maybe it's just me...).

Anyway, that's my two cents. Best of luck with the project, keep us posted!

ctsteel
14-08-2013, 01:51
As each world of the Imperium governs itself internally (with a planetary governor and Administratum oversight to ensure tithes are met) then they will pretty much handle their criminals in whatever manner they have done traditionally - although the Adeptus Arbites stationed on the planet may have a 'template' process that is used by them on each world for crimes and criminals they become involved with. So you may have a blend of local justice for 'petty' criminals (which may include serious crimes like murder, but where the arbites haven't become involved) and then you'd have the criminals who are processed by the arbites because of the scale of their crime or perhaps it infringed upon Imperial law very noticeably.

In relation to your serial revolutionary, there are several examples of demagogues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue) inciting unrest and rebellion throughout the imperium, which often culminates in the Imperial Guard, Inquisition and sometimes Astartes becoming involved in suppressing the rebellion if the local Arbites and PDF can't handle it.

SpanielBear
14-08-2013, 02:15
I once ran an Inquisitor campaign based around a penal gulag. Situated near the north pole, Eisengraab had initially designed as a system-wide prison. However, the politics and backstabbing between the systems ruling families had led to catastrophic lack of oversight of the instillation. Half the prisoners had become corrupted into a Khornate cult, while the other half had turned to an extreme Imperial cult, called Lambs of the Emperor, to protect themselves.

I reckon the Galaxy/fluff is big enough to accommodate most things.

Loginis
14-08-2013, 11:58
I'm thinking the reason the City is not just Bombarded to Terra and back is because of a Relic of Great worth/Historical Significance in the city.


Personally, I find the idea of him ransoming a Hive a bit far-fetched, as there's pretty much nowhere bar Terra the Imperium wouldn't bomb into oblivion! :D

I don't want to derail the thread, but I have to write down this:
I think the Imperium isn't that trigger-happy when it comes to orbital bombardment.
The best example is Vraks: a totally worthless planet, with only a "city" what is basically a big warehouse for (often thousands of years old) war material. It even have tanks from the dawn of the Imperium. A heretic cardinal takes his headquarters here and the Imperium besieges it for more than a decade (IIRC some 17 millions kriegers died there, a lot more than the population of the planet). In the end the place turns into a daemon-planet, and they just wasted their troops there.
Wouldn't have been easier to just destroy it from a orbiting ship?

So you don't have to make an excuse why the hives aren't bombed. They are too valuable to be destroyed just because some prisoners make them their "playground".

Gorbad Ironclaw
14-08-2013, 13:00
On the other hand the Imperium would probably not care if he killed every individual in the hive and would probably just launch an assault on it rather than sit around and negotiate. The nature of the assault would depend on the nature of the treat and his leverage and could be anything from a full scale IG ground assault to a SM lead lightning assault to Inquisitorial/Assassin infiltration. Spectacular killings of cult leaders and the like is what Assassins are made for after all.

So for instance if there is a relic of great importance and it's judge that he might destroy it if attacked an infiltration team might be sent in an once the relic is secured the Guard will attack. The Imperium deals with uprisings and Chaos cults all the time, and they have a very no-nonsense approach to it, especially since individuals (even millions or billions of them) are expendable. On the other hand they probably wouldn't just destroy the hive. The manufacturing base is considerably more valuable than all the lives it would cost to reclaim it.

childsoldier
14-08-2013, 14:30
Yeah sorry I meant the "bomb everything bar Terra" thing in jest, what I was trying to get at is that the Imperium wouldn't, I feel, let a city be hostaged in the same way as in the Batman film. More likely something like the Siege of Vraks would happen, with the Imperium launching an assault regardless, and they'll deal with whatever that bomb does if/when it goes off.

Rogue Star
14-08-2013, 15:11
I'd just make him an Inquisitor of that Radical Faction which views the Imperium as entirely corrupt and needing to be destroyed wholesale before starting again...

jimmyzimms
15-08-2013, 19:44
The old Rouge Trader era supplement, Warhammer Siege (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_Siege#.Ug0tmZJOzP8) probably said it best when discussing the nature of a siege in the 40th millennium: (paraphrasing)

"the king of the castle instinct works in favor of the Imperium when dealing with rogue elements. In order to not simply destroy them from orbit and take the target through a potentially protracted and costly siege there must be a reason that bombardment isn't an option (a relic, priceless technology, infrastructure, etc)"

As said earlier in the thread, the reason they just don't immediately destroy a hive wouldn't be because of the death toll or some need to negotiate, after all human life is expendable, but because there is a huge amount of valuable industry and infrastructure usually to be found in a hive city. Now, if they were in control of say enough virus bombs and other WMDs to destroy every other hive and were threatening to do just that and Marines were not available and the Navy was, you bet your tuchas that they'd bomb the ever living crap out of it and cut their loses. That's a pretty rare situation though. For instance, how come they didn't destroy the hives in the northern continent when taken pretty intact during the 2nd War of Armageddon by orc xenos? Because a million deaths of footsloggers is nothing in comparison to losing manufactorums and the industrial output the Imperium relies on. People have the convenient habit of replacing themselves, hives, not so much :)

cpl_hicks
17-08-2013, 02:56
Most if not all civilised worlds are going to have an Arbities fortresses, which will have their own cell blocks for prisoners awaiting trial, the novel Execution Hour mentiones a large precinct were prisoners can be kept until they have come to trial, with some dieing before this.

Most systems with local system travel (civilised enough for the people to travel to other planets) seem to have prision planets/moons - one of the Soul Drinker novels - has a section were scouts are investigating a ship traveling in system between a planet and a prison moon

I would guess that most planets have a local Arbites run holding area. once the prisoners have been sentenced they are either shipped to a prision moon/planet or used for various local hard labour.

Gorbad Ironclaw
17-08-2013, 07:23
But the Arbites doesn't deal with ordinary crime. They are not the police. They are their to enforce Imperial law and loyalty. Mundane things like thefts, muggings, assault, fraud and murders are not their jurisdiction unless it targets imperial officials. And how a given society handle those things are going to vary a lot, I certainly wouldn't make the assumption that there are prison planets/moons/asteroids everywhere. Some planets/systems will have them but most probably won't. Much easier and cheaper to just build a normal jail.

cpl_hicks
17-08-2013, 20:11
I'm sure the arbites is a normal police force dealing with everything from petty theft to murder, once it involves the higher imperial levels I see the ordo hereticus getting involved

SomeRandomEvilGuy
17-08-2013, 23:04
I'm sure the arbites is a normal police force dealing with everything from petty theft to murder, once it involves the higher imperial levels I see the ordo hereticus getting involved
Not the Adeptus Arbites. They're transferred to a planet from off world if I recall correctly and are often the last defenders of a planet. They deal with Imperial Law, which is actually very sketchy and can be broadly surmised as; abhor the heretic, purge the xeno, give Psykers to the Black Ships and pay your tithe. Even matters such as religion (so long they give praise to the Emperor above any other deities) and treatment of mutants (as long as they're not Chaos-tainted) are not strictly governed by the Imperium. Generally, the Arbites don't get involved in other matters unless it threatens those duties. Instead, planets have to maintain their own police force. Or separate kingdoms or nations on the planet, as the case may be (so long as they all bow to the Imperium).

cpl_hicks
17-08-2013, 23:59
Not the Adeptus Arbites. They're transferred to a planet from off world if I recall correctly and are often the last defenders of a planet..... Instead, planets have to maintain their own police force. Or separate kingdoms or nations on the planet, as the case may be (so long as they all bow to the Imperium).

The background is a bit strange around this, and Lexicanum (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page) dosent help as it seems to contradict itself around Arbites and Enforcers - the link on the main Arbites page for local police forces actually points to the Enforcer Arbites rank and the page only seems to referance stuff that is over 10 years old while there have been more recent Arbites background which contradicts the concept of them being roaming police forces and not local police forces.

The Shira Calpurnia (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Shira_Lucina_Calpurnia) novels are probabely the most up to date background on Arbites, and though its been a couple of years since I've read them I am sure that there was no mention of a local police force and the Arbites were the defacto police for Hydraphur.

The Novel Execution Hour (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Execution_Hour) which I have just read, again had an Arbites force, and again no local police forces were mentioned, the arbites had a large precinct which did have its own cell system and slave labour gangs and seemed to contain prisoners from the entire planet

Within Necromunda (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necromunda_(game_system)) the Enforcers are Arbites and are seen as the law of Necromunda and again are the local police force for Hive Primus specifically

Fire Warrior (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Fire_Warrior) does have a section were a planetary governor has his own prison built, arbites arnt mentioned and this could be a local police force/prison system

In (I think?) Crimson Tears (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Crimson_Tears_(Novel)) a Soul Drinker is being transported to a in system prison planet he is the only prisoner on this ship and I cannot remember of the top of my head if it mentioned arbites

In Tales from the Dark Millennium (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tales_from_the_Dark_Millennium_(Anthology)) one of the short stories deals with a prison planet, and again its been a bit since Ive read it but Im sure there are the standard rapists/murderes ect and I think the guards are mentioned under the generic Enforcers termonology which seems to get interchanged with Arbites but may possible mean a more local police force.

MyNameDidntFit
18-08-2013, 03:21
The Ciaphas Cain novels constant emphasise through the Inquisitor's footnotes that when Cain says "Arbites" he's generally using it as a broad-spectrum term for local law enforcement and not the Adeptus Arbites.

Gorbad Ironclaw
18-08-2013, 06:40
I've no doubt that the term is often used for local law enforcement, at least in a general way (and it stops GW from having to think of new terms and explain all the time), but the Adeptus Arbites is an Imperial institution and as such concerned with Imperial matters. They would be the ones who investigate and arrest (if need be) planetary governors or anyone else who threatens Imperial business. They are closer to the public face of the Inquisition than they are to your local police.

Askil the Undecided
18-08-2013, 08:14
The best explaination I have heard is this:

The Inquisition are the the men in black, MI5/MI6/stazi/gestapo/KGB, thought police and witch hunters.

The Arbites are the Coast Guard, Interpol and the FBI rolled into one

The Commissariat is the military police for all arms of forces serving under the munitorum.

Everything else is a local matter.

Askil the Undecided
18-08-2013, 08:15
The best explaination I have heard is this:

The Inquisition are the the men in black, MI5/MI6/stazi/gestapo/KGB, thought police and witch hunters.

The Arbites are the Coast Guard, Interpol and the FBI rolled into one

The Commissariat is the military police for all arms of forces serving under the munitorum.

Everything else is a local matter.