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View Full Version : At 1,200pts Beat this Khorne list with any High ELves...



GlenMorray
15-08-2013, 17:38
As title says,

You have anything available in the HE list, you're playing a chap who knows his pointy end from his handle, you have to try and beat this list...

Bsb Hero on gorebeast chariot (300)
5 chariots (550)
4 crushers (300)
6 vanguard Dogs. (48)
1198

If anyone says "Easy" in their post I'm all ears! :cool:

tmr8188
15-08-2013, 18:55
Bsb can't be the general, easy.

ArtificerArmour
15-08-2013, 19:01
eagles, frosthearts, spearmen, loremaster, and a big block of white lions. Apply eagles to crushers, apply white lions and frostheart to chariots.

Spirit leach general. Searing doom crushers. Wyssans whitelions/spearmen. Recieve charges. steadfast. Countercharge.

Your list has no magic resistance, no ranks, nothing that's stubborn, and more importantly, no real synergy. A savvy elf player will know how to pick it apart. He could even take cav core and take the game to you rather than waiting for a charge.

Lord Dan
15-08-2013, 19:10
As tmr pointed out, the Chaos list is currently illegal.

That aside, in order to beat that list the HE need to either avoid the chariots or mitigate the damage from their impact hits. I'd recommend the following:

Archmage, Lv. 4, Book of Hoeth, Ring of Fury, Lore of Metal

5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Musician
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows, Musician
5 Ellyrian Reavers, Bows

18 Pheonix Guard, Full Command, BoTWD

Frostheart Pheonix

Run the PG in an 8x3 with the archmage and do your best to square off against the crushers - you can do this by denying him charges against the rest of your list, which is all significantly faster than him. The PG mathematically beat the crushers with their 2++, and the pheonix can go to town herding his slow-moving chariots (take your time getting into a good position. Don't charge him turn 1 just because you can- a flying monster behind a line of chariots will completely muck up his plans). I would focus fire your LoM spells on the chariots instead of the crushers, both because your PG can handle the unit on their own and because D6 hits on a 4 wound (5 wound?) chariot is a lot more effective than D6 hits on a 12 wound unit. The reavers should stay out of the way, and focus their fire on the dogs to clear them and potentially cause an early panic test.

ArtificerArmour
15-08-2013, 20:17
Im assuming his juggers dont have ensorcelled weapons (list tailoring?) as hes not mentioned them, plus botwd is a big price drop at 1.2k.

But we can all agree - theres more than one way to skin a skullcrusher

Lord Dan
16-08-2013, 01:12
Im assuming his juggers dont have ensorcelled weapons

Actually, unless he knows that his opponent is running BoTWD (which, as you pointed out, is a big investment at just 1200 points) I would assume that he is running ensorcelled weapons, as the only reason not to take them is if you know for sure that you'll be running into the BoTWD specifically.

Even then the banner basically negates the attacks from the juggers, which is 12 less S5 attacks to worry about.

byrothegyro
16-08-2013, 01:38
from the points he's not running the crushers with ensorceled weapons, they just have hand weapons.

Lord Dan
16-08-2013, 02:01
Good point!

Let's work through the math, then:

18 PG vs. 4 Skullcrushers

PG: 14.6 hits (after re-rolls), 7.3 wounds, 1.21 after saves.
SC (Riders): 6 hits, 4 wounds, 1.16 after saves.
SC (Mounts): 6 hits, 5 wounds, .83 after saves.
SC (Stomp): 3.3 wounds, .55 after saves.

SC did 2.54 wounds, and presumably have +1 from the charge for total score of 3.54.
PG did 1.21 wounds with a rank and a banner for a total score of 3.21.

Not bad- the PG lose by just a little, and if they stick around for another turn they begin winning combat each round (as the crushers no longer have +1 from the charge). As the HE player has total command of the magic phase I would recommend prioritizing buffs and debuffs to help sway this combat in his favor; for example even a single successful casting of Plague of Rust changes the PG's damage output from 1.21 wounds after saves to 2.43 wounds after saves, making it to where they actually win combat statistically.

It's imperative, however, that you ensure that the chariots aren't able to charge in with the crushers. Your sacrificial units of Ellyrian Reavers should do the trick.

datalink7
16-08-2013, 02:09
I'm too lazy to right out an exact list right now, but I imagine a pure Reaver list with 2 x Pheonix's would beat it handily. Mage on a steed with Lore of Metal also. Just never get into any combat that you don't want to.

Edit: Ok, so you can't fit two Phoenix's in there. I decided to not be lazy and throw together a quick list.

Archmage - Level 4, Elven Steed, Golden Crown (2+ ward vs. first unsaved wound), Lore of Metal

5 Reavers - Musician, Bow

5 Reavers - Musician, Bow

5 Reavers - Musician, Bow

11 Dragon Princes - Full Command, Star Lance on Champion (+3 strength, no armor save), Banner of Swiftness

Frost Pheonix

Total: 1199

If you play it right the chaos list will never catch you and you'll get to choose your charges.

GlenMorray
16-08-2013, 10:37
Archmage - Level 4, Elven Steed, Golden Crown (2+ ward vs. first unsaved wound), Lore of Metal
5 Reavers - Musician, Bow
5 Reavers - Musician, Bow
5 Reavers - Musician, Bow
11 Dragon Princes - Full Command, Star Lance on Champion (+3 strength, no armor save), Banner of Swiftness
Frost Pheonix
Total: 1199


Big fan of this list!

Well doen fellas, i'll point out the BSB as Lord to the chap, as that's a very good point.

So Frost heart Phoneix is on everyone's list so far...Think I'll be getting one of those bad boys then...

BlackPawl
16-08-2013, 13:30
As title says,

You have anything available in the HE list, you're playing a chap who knows his pointy end from his handle, you have to try and beat this list...

Bsb Hero on gorebeast chariot (300)
5 chariots (550)
4 crushers (300)
6 vanguard Dogs. (48)
1198

If anyone says "Easy" in their post I'm all ears! :cool:


And I would try an archmage on an eagle - can fly over the chariots and cast spell.


Roll for scenarios - if you roll a 2 or 6 (banner / watchtower) it will be an auto - victory. :-)

a18no
16-08-2013, 15:58
You can be faster than him you know. All his chariot move at 6 to 7 (8?), and you move at 18!

Take a unit of PG with a Mage in high magic. The goal is the have at least on unit that will stand almost any chariot charge.
Take a Frost phoenix, he will probably be able to kill the general on its own, provinding you got the right buff
Then take many cavalry. Reaver yes, but silver helm could do the trick. If you got the charge on his chariot with the reavers, you win (just go for the flank). You could go for a full silver helm army too.

Or, take a BIG (like 40 or more) unit of archer, with an High lore mage. That unit could destroy a chariot each turn. Take reavers to slow the crusher and the dogs, that way you got at least 3 turns of shooting (maybe more), so it's 4-5 chariots down (with the help of the mage). Even when they charges, you still have 3 ranks, banner so will probably be steadfast anyway. The goal is to get point for the chariot and the dogs, and give only reavers. Small win, but a win.

Soundwave
16-08-2013, 16:24
General. Hero g.w with a bus of spears. Two units of silver helms one 5 one 10 no command,special sister two units of ten then the rest on bolt throwers four yes? Well at least two d3 wounds will solve most issues here.

Von Wibble
16-08-2013, 18:43
Easy. I'll say we play the banners scenario and auto win as long as I have 1 banner in my list, given his general can't have bsb so he has no banners.

In a pitched battle - you want cavalry to outpace him. Silver Helms with a banner on charge are beating a chariot by 2 before blows are struck in combat, with a good chance to break them - and that's just a unit of 5 so costs about the same. A Phoenix from rare and a Griffon riding Hero plus eagle prince, and flying chariot of your own with dragon princes should do the job. Basically, your army is faster than his and a lot of it flies so you should be able to pick your fights.

Lord Dan
16-08-2013, 18:47
General. Hero g.w with a bus of spears. Two units of silver helms one 5 one 10 no command,special sister two units of ten then the rest on bolt throwers four yes? Well at least two d3 wounds will solve most issues here.

I'm not sure about this, SW. A bus of spears would get absolutely trounced in combat by those Bloodcrushers, or even a combined charge from two or more chariots.

danny-d-b
16-08-2013, 20:06
Play the rule book missions

almost auto win blood and glory, auto win watchtower, pritty much win battle for the pass

Soundwave
17-08-2013, 02:06
I'm not sure about this, SW. A bus of spears would get absolutely trounced in combat by those Bloodcrushers, or even a combined charge from two or more chariots.

Probably.Yet the two units of silver helms could catch the chariots out and with enough firepower the crushers can be halved,leaving the spearmen and hero to finish them off.