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ChaplainAvorus96
19-08-2013, 06:13
Hello all! I am looking to start up a mighty dwarf army and have been studying up various tactics and list building. While talking to a friend who is plays High Elves about games and tactics two big things came up that I am having trouble finding tactics against....The first is the Banner of the World Dragon, and lastly the Cloak of Beards.

I'm not new to playing warhammer (I play Tomb Kings and have played WOC) but these items seem a little tough to fight against especially against a veteran High Player. I read things like taking more Organ Guns and trying to avoid the Cloak bearer but not to much more. I just wanted thoughts and ideas from Warseer tacticians and Veteran Dwarf players out there!

Thanks for the help in advance! :D

sigmarus
19-08-2013, 14:46
Being a skilled high elf player myself, I hope I can help.

It really depends on what unit he puts the banner of the world dragon in. If he puts it in a cavalry bus (silver helms or dragon princes), then take 1-2 cannons with no runes on them. That way he will get no armor and no ward saves. If he puts it in a unit of infantry, take a grudgethrower with no runes, elves are still T3.

With your other war machines, you could just simply do what daemon players do and focus other units. Organ guns are always a good choice vs the banner.

Infantry: Regular warriors - give them great weapons and horde them. Strength 5 means you wound elves on 2's with whatever attacks you get back since you are already going last.

boli
19-08-2013, 17:46
Horde of 50 warriors with GW for your core is downright scary for any HE unit to face.

Plus don't be afraid to use miners and rangers, HE players often keep their mages in archer bunkers at the back. Even the potential to threaten them will change his tactics.

As for the cloak of beards, don't accept challenge s and move your runic characters to face only common troops ;)

ChaplainAvorus96
19-08-2013, 18:09
Thanks for the help! Nice to get tips from the enemy too :p haha. Should I include any longbeards? And what unit sizes should I consider taking? (We typically play between to 2000 and 3000)

Tactics against the banner seem more straight forward then I thought haha. Again thanks for the help!

Montegue
19-08-2013, 18:17
Thanks for the help! Nice to get tips from the enemy too :p haha. Should I include any longbeards? And what unit sizes should I consider taking? (We typically play between to 2000 and 3000)

Tactics against the banner seem more straight forward then I thought haha. Again thanks for the help!


High Elf units are pound for pound better than ours. Increased attacks from their various rules and elite infantry models makes our increased toughness and armor saves less of an advantage. The only real answer to elite armies is more bodies.

Dwarfs with HW and Shield are ok against high elf spear units, assuming those units are unbuffed. You won't be winning combat, though, so if he's deep, you're probably dead.

By contrast, large units of Great Weapon warriors and Hammerers are a big threat to his units. If you field them, he's going to try and gain points by gunning down your artillery and by picking off targets of opportunity.

The hardest list I've played, as a dwarf player, is basically this at 2500 - 2 hordes of 40 GW Warriors with Musician and Standard, one horde of 38 hammerers with Std, Musician, and the MR of Grungni on the banner, 1 Cannon with Rune of Forging and Rune of Fire, a second cannon with Rune of Forging, A Grudge Thrower with a Rune of Accuracy and 2 runes of penetration, and two organ guns. My Runelord is tooled up to be both tanky and anti-magic (2+rerollable Armor save, MR of Balance and two Spellbreakers) and my Thane BSB is runed up to be tanky (1+ rerollable AS, immunity to poison and KB/HKB, rune of fire on his weapon).

The problem is the banner of the world dragon. Two organ guns, assuming they survive, can put a large dent in any Elf unit, be it dragon princes or infantry or even silver helms. You can also try to tweak points and add in a couple of Bolt Throwers, unruned, with Engineer upgrades. This will give you some non magical armor ignoring shots. Placing them wide out on the flanks will make him think twice about his approach, as well, and may well draw his eagles or other War Machine hunters out wide.

So, big units of great weapons and a large variety of war machines, some runed and some unruned, are your best bets.

Longbeards are nice, but a bit spendy. S4, WS5, and a 4+ armor save with a parry save is very nice against spear elves, but not as good against the more elite units. Ironbreakers are a bit too expensive to waste, especially if they come up against a White Lion horde.

Kahadras
22-08-2013, 22:45
I don't think there's too much to be woried about when it comes to HE. The only things to watch out for are the Banner and the Cloak both of which can be countered by not investing too heavily in runes. I'd advise plenty of magical defence to shut down the High Elf magic phase. Great weapons for Dwarf warriors as the Elves are going to be going first anyway and you're going to be wounding on 2's and reducing their armour saves. Plenty of runed and unruned warmachines. Aim the runed warmachines at HE units which aren't capable of fielding the Banner of the World Dragon. Invest in shooting units as well, White Lions have a decent armour save against shooting and Phoenix Guard have their 4+ ward save but there are a lot of HE infantry units with a toughness of 3 and a 5+ armour save.

For general tactics I'd hang back, stay compact and use your shooting to force your opponant to come to you. Be aware of the Phoenix as they are fast, powerful and quite tough to take down. You want warmachines and shooting to deal with them ASAP. As lkong as you can keep the High Elves restricted in their magic phase you should be able to grind down their elite infantry. They hit hard but can't take punnishment in return so look to damage them a bit at range then whittle them down in combat. As long as your attacks aren't magical the Banner of the World Dragon isn't going to do anything.

Kahadras

ChaplainAvorus96
23-08-2013, 04:25
Thanks for all the help! I will work on some lists using what I've learned here and deffenietly try out some the battlefield tactics! My Friends HE are looking a bit less scary now!

Solonor
23-08-2013, 11:20
Dont worry, It's your friend that should be scared. Dwarfs are a though match for HE, they always have been. A normall Balanced Dwarf List can take a normal balanced HE list anytime. Take some sizable warrior blocks with GW to hold the line, protect your warmachines with quarreleers with GW, take the anvil to reduce key enemy units movement, and take miners to threathen mage bunkers or RBT. Thing to watch out (besides the ones already mentioned):

Silver Helm Cav. Bus - a pretty solid 12 plus unit with prince, archmage+life or beasts, and possibly Noble SB with the BoWD. Highly expensive but highly mobile unit usually supported by o Frost Phoenix that can target your army piece by piece. Use the anvil and organ guns to counter.

Lots of small Ellyrian reaver Knight units and eagles - Higly mobile units that can destroy or pin your warmachines.

If he takes a heavy infantry army you should do quite well.