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Chem-Dog
20-08-2013, 17:05
Didn't see this up, so I resolved to remedy that...

Shamelessly pilfered from BoLs via my FB newsfeed ---->Here (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?35060-Imperial-Guard-Rumor-Roundup)

If you don't want to or can't make that jump....

Old BoLS Rumors (pre-August 2013):
Release Date: January 2014
Steel Legion Supplemental Codex
Catachans Supplemental Codex
Look for missing models in the new release:
Plastic Stormtroopers
Hydra
Missing Artillery Kits
New vehicle kit from EPIC

And


via Faeit 8-19-2013
Release date: March (or January) 2014
Steel Legion Plastic Kits
-Wearing "M35 Stahlhelms"
-Infantry sqaud box
-Command Squad box
-Heavy Weapon box
New Superheavy Tank based on the Baneblade.
Baneblade & all other Superheavies will be in the Codex.
Thunderer / Destroyer Kit.
Vanilla Stormtroopers

All of it seems to make sense though I can't believe they'd make a Baneblade available in normal games (though I admit I've yet to investigate how SH's have been handled in Apoc MkII, so it might make sense).

Anyone got anything to add?

MajorWesJanson
20-08-2013, 17:16
First rumor is plausible.

Second set, from Faeit, basically should be disregarded. It's not even plausible or logical wishlisting.

Voss
20-08-2013, 17:22
Another plastic guard regiment? And the fabled (sort of) long-coat guard of story and legend?
I has doubts. They come in the form of LOLcats.

Brotheroracle
20-08-2013, 17:26
Plastic storm troopers/carapace vets in plastic sounds plausible.

Baneblades in normal games does not.

Olja
20-08-2013, 17:33
Plastic Steel Legion sounds waaay too good to be true.

Theocracity
20-08-2013, 17:36
First rumor is plausible.

Second set, from Faeit, basically should be disregarded. It's not even plausible or logical wishlisting.

That sums up my thoughts quite nicely.

Thoug I think in the first set that two supplements is a bit much for a single release, and that those model releases (while plausible) lack GW's usual zing. That may just be the way it is for this release, but GW's trend of left-field new stuff makes me think those are less rumors and more safe bets.

Edit: that second set is just too funny in its absurdity. Yeah, GW is gonna spend their plastic kit budget on releasing another full set of infantry for a list that already has two distinct sets of them, plus superheavies and vehicles. Great idea. For the number of kits listed there, they could easily restart plastic Sisters in one release.

Baneboss
20-08-2013, 17:45
Plastic Steel Legion sounds waaay too good to be true.

Agree. Plastic greatcoats rumour is here for like 10 years already. Perhaps its finally time to make it happen. It certainly is a good time for that when Cadians are getting old (and boring) and dont get me started on Catachans.

fsssh
20-08-2013, 18:03
i think there is a new guard command unit called 'captain obvious' who adds +1 to all rumour reverb per page

baphomael
20-08-2013, 18:07
Plastic steel legion would, I am imagine, do very well. Well enough to warrant plastics... although a new set of plastic infantry as well as filling gaps in the list *and* any new options (particularly the new large 'centrepiece' kits that are becoming the norm) I'm finding hard to believe. Thats a lot of kits.

Bigglesworth
20-08-2013, 18:09
We can assume that there well be supplements for every new codex as GW seem to think they are successful, and while a Catachan one is no brainer given they used to have one in the good old days, a Supplement that promoted a majority finecast or metal army would be very unlikely, so it stands to reason that there will be no steel legion supplement without plastic steel legion miniatures.

Gungo
20-08-2013, 18:55
Considering catachans havent sold as well as Cadians and the fact that DkoK/steel legion probably have just as large a player base. Do you think GW would stop producing catachans? And instead make Steel legion and Cadian plastics. Its hard enough finding any catachan models in a store right now. Catachan sentinals are no longer produced as well. This might just be a systematic change to produce a new lineup that will sell better. I hope if the redesign is true that the new steel legion plastic blends well with the old steel legion/dkok models.

Theocracity
20-08-2013, 19:12
Considering catachans havent sold as well as Cadians and the fact that DkoK/steel legion probably have just as large a player base. Do you think GW would stop producing catachans? And instead make Steel legion and Cadian plastics. Its hard enough finding any catachan models in a store right now. Catachan sentinals are no longer produced as well. This might just be a systematic change to produce a new lineup that will sell better. I hope if the redesign is true that the new steel legion plastic blends well with the old steel legion/dkok models.

GW released Catachan plastic kits with the last release. They're not being dropped. And the fact that you're combining the SL and Dkok signifies that they're not aesthetically unique enough to justify a full plastic line that would overlap with one of FW's biggest draws.

lordbeefy
20-08-2013, 19:44
Well, firstly to support it in general terms is the fact that Armageddon is being heavily revisited in terms of the fluff and game articles. Its the perfect battleground for the allies rules. Its an extremely popular piece of 40K environment. Revisiting the Steel Legion would be a logical step.

I just cant see it happening myself. Baneblade rumour...absolutely not. Stormtroopers...hopefully, and we have all seen the greens that did the rounds a while back. Plastic variant tanks, yes very likely if they have any sense, a huge amount of cash to be made from these alone.

Thoughts on the vehicle from epic?

Promethius
20-08-2013, 19:52
Thoughts on the vehicle from epic?

Leviathan command vehicle. Large kit forgeworld have steered clear of.
I just hope we see plastic stormtroopers. I don't see new basic infantry models because we are likely to get three or four kits and with so many holes in the current line up I don't think gw will avoid pbs/penal/ogryn/rr/ratlings/artillery/hydra/stormies to bring out something completely different

megatrons2nd
20-08-2013, 19:53
With the other large kits being released, I could see a dumbed down/nerfed Baneblade tank being added. I could also see the Orc Stompa(?) [the big skirted looking thing] being added to help combat the Tau Empires Riptide, and the Eldars Wraithknight. I don't think it will have the same power level as it currently does, but I do think it is possible. It also fits better than making some other large base monster/walker that doesn't fit with the Imperial Guards aesthetic.

Not to mention, they already produce them in plastic.

Voss
20-08-2013, 19:58
Well, firstly to support it in general terms is the fact that Armageddon is being heavily revisited in terms of the fluff and game articles. Its the perfect battleground for the allies rules. Its an extremely popular piece of 40K environment. Revisiting the Steel Legion would be a logical step.

I just cant see it happening myself. Baneblade rumour...absolutely not. Stormtroopers...hopefully, and we have all seen the greens that did the rounds a while back. Plastic variant tanks, yes very likely if they have any sense, a huge amount of cash to be made from these alone.

Thoughts on the vehicle from epic?

Not actually sure what is left at this stage. Medusas, manticores, deathstrike. Most of what is left is support vehicles.
I think the baneblade bit may actually be _more_ credible, since all that would need to be done is more HPs, and possibly something for fire control. :evilgrin:

Theocracity
20-08-2013, 19:59
With the other large kits being released, I could see a dumbed down/nerfed Baneblade tank being added. I could also see the Orc Stompa(?) [the big skirted looking thing] being added to help combat the Tau Empires Riptide, and the Eldars Wraithknight. I don't think it will have the same power level as it currently does, but I do think it is possible. It also fits better than making some other large base monster/walker that doesn't fit with the Imperial Guards aesthetic.

Not to mention, they already produce them in plastic.

I used to think that might happen, back before Apocalypse was released. Turns out they were still Apoc units, and the new Chaos super heavy didn't get added to the Chaos codex.

Also, as I believe MajorWes noted at the time, all three of the plastic Apoc kits have a bigger table footprint than either the Wraithknight or Riptide. So they're not actually in the same category. I highly doubt they're gonna put the Baneblade or Stompa in a codex.

Radu Lykan
20-08-2013, 20:20
I would love it if they did a leviathan but doubt it, if as the rumour suggests it is based on the bane blade then maybe a storm hammer? Am now going to old off on my conversion plans for both a leviathan and storm hammer just in case! :)
regarding adding super heavies to the codex, I can see it happening, a large kit will probably be introduced and if so it will be bigger than a leman russ, would love it if it was the imperial knight that was doing the rumour rounds before apocalypse 2 came out
main probs with this rumour is we have heard most of it numerous times before?

Dark Primus
20-08-2013, 22:02
Baneblades for the codex...? GW must be out of ideas for IG if that was to be true. Uncreative. They will have to nerf it down for it to be a viable choice and considering how big a Baneblade is its not difficult to take one out.

Chem-Dog
20-08-2013, 22:03
GW's trend of left-field new stuff makes me think those are less rumors and more safe bets.

Just to act as Devil's Advocate for a minute, A Superheavy would be pretty leftfield, judging by the near universal Psh...Nah response I've seen from everyone who has commented on this everywhere I've looked.
I can imagine the cries of CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!! if they do slip it in there....


a Supplement that promoted a majority finecast or metal army would be very unlikely, so it stands to reason that there will be no steel legion supplement without plastic steel legion miniatures.

But does this mean both are likely or that neither are?


Considering catachans havent sold as well as Cadians and the fact that DkoK/steel legion probably have just as large a player base. Do you think GW would stop producing catachans? And instead make Steel legion and Cadian plastics. Its hard enough finding any catachan models in a store right now. Catachan sentinals are no longer produced as well. This might just be a systematic change to produce a new lineup that will sell better. I hope if the redesign is true that the new steel legion plastic blends well with the old steel legion/dkok models.

To be honest, all they would really have to do is bring the Infantry Squad in line with the Heavy and Command boxes, the Infantry models were crap when they were released and they haven't aged well at all.
As an aside, the "Catachan" Sentinels are entirely catered for by the standard Sentinel box, even the great big chainsaw.


And the fact that you're combining the SL and Dkok signifies that they're not aesthetically unique enough to justify a full plastic line that would overlap with one of FW's biggest draws.

The association is as old as dirt and has very little to do with aesthetics. Besides GW have made a business out of selling superficially different models over (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1060028) and over (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod260002a) and over (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1830078a), if one were being cynical....:shifty:



Not to mention, they already produce them in plastic.

One of my issues with the suggestion of a *new* SH based on the Baneblade is that the Baneblade and Shadowsword kits have just been merged, unless the *new* one was some hybrid created from all of the available components in the box, it seems a little much to bring another one out.

Theocracity
20-08-2013, 22:15
Just to act as Devil's Advocate for a minute, A Superheavy would be pretty leftfield, judging by the near universal Psh...Nah response I've seen from everyone who has commented on this everywhere I've looked.
I can imagine the cries of CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!! if they do slip it in there....


Well, when I say left field, I mean things that are wholly new to the background. Centurions, Heldrakes, Black Knights, etc. Fans tend to speculate about things that they know exist in the background, while GW is much more willing to invent things out of whole cloth (as well they should).

That's one way I mentally sort rumors - if it only references things that already exist in the background, or only reference new models based on their roles instead of their details ('a new chaos flyer' vs 'a huge mechanical dragon') I rate the rumor a bit lower.

burni
20-08-2013, 22:18
This is the release I've been waiting for, so I hope it's soon.

The main thing I want is the artillery kits. After that everything else is a bonus for me but a mini levithan sounds good.

I'd also love the Salamander to return to the codex (perhaps dual kit Griffon).

I hope the big kit for the release isn't a mega sentinel...

Voss
20-08-2013, 23:23
Baneblades for the codex...? GW must be out of ideas for IG if that was to be true. Uncreative. .
Nah, it just mean the people making up fake rumours are out of ideas.

Ambience 327
21-08-2013, 01:38
All I care about is that the Command Squad retains the Carapace upgrade, and that the Veteran Squad remains Troops and retains Shotguns and Carapace as upgrades. Otherwise, my Arbites become harder to field. :D

However, I find the thought of plastic Stormtroopers and/or Carapace Veterans to be tasty, for obvious reasons...

Cypher
21-08-2013, 04:27
Wasnt there talk of a Knight Titan recently?

Voss
21-08-2013, 04:50
Wasnt there talk of a Knight Titan recently?

The 'Space Marine' one that didn't happen? Yes. Or did you mean the Apocalypse one that didn't happen?

Daemonia
21-08-2013, 05:15
I doubt very much they'd make an entirely new plastic set of Guardsmen that cover every option. Space Marines are even more popular and didn't get that many new kits. I'm sure new Guard models would sell like hotcakes but I just don't think it's feasible to think that GW would entirely remake a whole collection like that. It was one thing for the Dark Eldar who needed it to be revamped (as so many Sister fans hope will happen for them), but for sets that are already popular? Those blobs everyone around me keeps spamming have to have come from somewhere. I'm sure they'd be popular, I don't think anyone could deny that, I just don't think they need that extra draw to get people to play Guard.

As for the new Baneblade, I call bunk on that right out. Would I love to use a Baneblade in a normal game? Oh for sure, I don't even care how good or bad it would be. It's a Baneblade. Tau and Eldar got big walkers, Space Marines didn't. Guard certainly don't need a big walker either. I can see a new big tank coming out, just not Baneblade size. Just think of a bigger version of a Leman Russ or a slightly new chassis or something. That much I'd believe. A new Guard 'supertank' to go alongside Riptides and Wraithknights would be fine just not Baneblade size or power or expense. That's pure speculation and seems more reasonable to me than a Baneblade or no tank at all. It's Guard, they need a new tank model for people to buy right? Not just remade old ones.

Lastly the old new Stormtrooper models and other stuff. Sounds perfectly reasonable and expected. Hope it's true. Heard it for years, believe it when I see it. Packaging reasonable things like that with Baneblades and Steel Legion models though? Not buying it.

LRawne
21-08-2013, 07:59
Plastic Steel legion would get me back into 40k. The current IG infantry plastics are so boring, the Cadians so tired apart from the command box.

But as said before, sounds way too good to be true.

At least the Storm Trooper box is pretty much a safe bet plus some boring tanks.

Darnok
21-08-2013, 08:30
First rumor is plausible.

Second set, from Faeit, basically should be disregarded. It's not even plausible or logical wishlisting.

What the Major said.

The first set of rumours includes two supplements that make sense, plus a sensible number of useful additions to the IG model line. The stuff from Faeit is just wishlisting extraordinaire.

Bigglesworth
21-08-2013, 12:12
But does this mean both are likely or that neither are?







I can't say if it makes it more or less likely, only that if better confirmation could be got of one of those rumours being true, then the other would be likely too.


The only other reason to make a steel legion supplement would be if they limited accesses to chimeras in the standard dex again and you have to buy the supplement to have your mechanised army again.

Avian
21-08-2013, 13:11
I don't see GW deciding to limit sales of Chimeras in order to potentially sell more supplements.

GlenMorray
21-08-2013, 14:22
I don't see why they wouldn't put the Super Heavy in the Codex, they could even list it as Apoc only type? But isn't the Eldar Super Heavy in their codex? If so I don't think it's that far afield?!

jason_sation
21-08-2013, 14:22
There's been a lot of talk about Armageddon themed releases in the future, so Steel Legion would be perfect. I have plenty of Cadians, so starting Steel Legion would be expensive considering I can already field the same army just with a different "skin", but I'd certainly do it as Chimera Vets if the models came out well. I hope it's true!

MajorWesJanson
21-08-2013, 15:01
I don't see why they wouldn't put the Super Heavy in the Codex, they could even list it as Apoc only type? But isn't the Eldar Super Heavy in their codex? If so I don't think it's that far afield?!

Nope, Eldar Wraithknight is a Monstrous Creature, not a superheavy.

If you combined the "giant oval base model" and "model from epic" rumors, you could potentially get the Knight Paladin/Errant/Lancer (not Knight Titan!), but that is nearly as much wishlist. Still, a Walker with say 5-6 HP and a powerfield on a large oval would fit, where a MC would not for guard. But again, that is mainly wishlisting.

Orks are not going to get the giant footprint Stompa in their book when GW could sell a new $85 model on a large oval that has existed in the ork fluff forever- the Squiggoth/Orkeosaurus. Again, wishlisting, and it would overlap with FW some, but unlike most newer FW models, it has been around forever in GW fluff.

Azazyll
21-08-2013, 15:18
Codex releases these days are releasing Big New Shinies, replacing mixed media models (Finecast/metal+plastic) and units missing models. Sometimes they add something new with a dual kit replacing a really old model. The exception is marines, but let's be honest here, they're special, and they don't have any of the latter categories left.

Sadly, Steel Legion fit none of those categories. But they've got to release something once they finish going through all the codices at a breakneck speed. That's when I'd expect a steel legion release, with a supplement. And that's when I'll buy into guard.

blooddragon
21-08-2013, 15:50
People dismissing the 'Steel Legion' line of infantry seem to overestimate how much plastic it would require. Sure, it requires having an infantry box, a command box, and a heavy weapons box. But don't think about it in terms of plastic kits slots on release, think about it in terms of sprues:


The Cadian heavy weapons sprue was just reused for the Catachans box, with only one small 'quarter' sprue being cast with Catachan infantry bodies/arms/heads.

Cadian infantry is on one sprue, the command squad is another.

So that's two and a quarter sprues needed to put out a whole new line of infantry that will sell like hotcakes and get people to start new armies. We've seen that 4 plastic kits is the norm for a 6th edition release, some of those kits have 2 sprues. So really, a steel legion line would take up just 1 of the 4 slots.




Having said all that, I think the rumour is just wishlisting. But there's no reason GW couldn't do this without wasting the opportunity to add in new units and shiny goodies.

Theocracity
21-08-2013, 16:05
People dismissing the 'Steel Legion' line of infantry seem to overestimate how much plastic it would require. Sure, it requires having an infantry box, a command box, and a heavy weapons box. But don't think about it in terms of plastic kits slots on release, think about it in terms of sprues:


The Cadian heavy weapons sprue was just reused for the Catachans box, with only one small 'quarter' sprue being cast with Catachan infantry bodies/arms/heads.

Cadian infantry is on one sprue, the command squad is another.

So that's two and a quarter sprues needed to put out a whole new line of infantry that will sell like hotcakes and get people to start new armies. We've seen that 4 plastic kits is the norm for a 6th edition release, some of those kits have 2 sprues. So really, a steel legion line would take up just 1 of the 4 slots.




Having said all that, I think the rumour is just wishlisting. But there's no reason GW couldn't do this without wasting the opportunity to add in new units and shiny goodies.

That's assuming that greatcoat models are as easy to produce via plastic injection molds as basic flakk armor. It can be done, sure, but there's no garauntee that it'll take up the same amount of sprue space as Cadians.

It he only way I could see them making plastic Steel Legion would be if A: their kit comes with new weapon or kit options for IG infantry, like how new Tac marines have grav guns now or B: GW has fully updated all codices and need new things to sell. Preferably both A and B. Neither of those are going to happen in the short term.

blooddragon
21-08-2013, 16:25
The only way I could see them making plastic Steel Legion would be if A: their kit comes with new weapon or kit options for IG infantry, like how new Tac marines have grav guns now or B: GW has fully updated all codices and need new things to sell. Preferably both A and B. Neither of those are going to happen in the short term.

I just don't think that. This whole nonsense about robes (in the case of Sisters)/greatcoats being so much harder to produce doesn't stand to reason when you having things like Empire Flaggelants, Dark Angels in robes, the latest cultist models (which were snap-fit for crying out loud!!).

I'm trying to say that Guard getting a new plastic troop line is not the same as other races getting their core troops re-done ala Space Marines - as it wouldn't invalidate the old models, and probably increase sales of other kits thanks to compatability.

Again, having said that, I don't think they're doing it for this release. But only because they've got too many metals/un-represented units to transfer to plastic sprues. There's certainly a strong business case for Steel Legion, and the investment is negligible compared to the sales it would drive. Whole new armies, not just the odd new tank.

MajorWesJanson
21-08-2013, 16:45
People dismissing the 'Steel Legion' line of infantry seem to overestimate how much plastic it would require. Sure, it requires having an infantry box, a command box, and a heavy weapons box. But don't think about it in terms of plastic kits slots on release, think about it in terms of sprues:

So that's two and a quarter sprues needed to put out a whole new line of infantry that will sell like hotcakes and get people to start new armies. We've seen that 4 plastic kits is the norm for a 6th edition release, some of those kits have 2 sprues. So really, a steel legion line would take up just 1 of the 4 slots.


2 2 frame sprues and a half sprue. Most infantry kits now are single 3 frame sprues. And many of the missing kits are tanks, which with some smart design would only require 1 new sprue each combined with the chimaera hull sprue.

That said, if GW was smart, they would merge the infantry and command squad on any new regiments to a single 3 frame sprue with 10 legs, a few extra torsoes for sergeant/officer, and one of each special weapon. Less boxes, same parts, increased sales for the same sprue. It would make battleforces a bit tricky though.

Voss
21-08-2013, 18:28
I'm trying to say that Guard getting a new plastic troop line is not the same as other races getting their core troops re-done ala Space Marines - as it wouldn't invalidate the old models, and probably increase sales of other kits thanks to compatability.

Not sure I agree with that. It seems like another way to depress the sales of the horrible Catachan models.

MajorWesJanson
21-08-2013, 20:39
Not sure I agree with that. It seems like another way to depress the sales of the horrible Catachan models.

Adding a new regiment is already starting at a sales disadvantage:
New players can choose between 3 different regiments that do the same thing, theoretically cutting sales of each sprue to 1/3 the toal for all guard infantry/command/heavy weapons. End result is that GW is getting the same number of sales, but 3 times the cost in design and shelf space.
Existing players in most cases would ignore it, as they already have enough infantry, and a new regiment would bring nothing new to their army. There are a few players who would replace their old models, but not enough to offset the existing army base. Most redone old units add new units as a dual option so even if old players have one unit, the second option is still new and they buy it. Even the Marine Tac squad has something like that with the new grav weapons. If you want grav guns on your tac squad, you will have to either buy the new kit, the sternguard box, or trade/scrounge/bits shop.

Chem-Dog
21-08-2013, 20:44
Not sure I agree with that. It seems like another way to depress the sales of the horrible Catachan models.

To be honest that's reason enough to hope it is true! ;) The sooner that Infantry Squad set gets replaced the better.

Anyway. It occurred to me that the Plastic Regiment isn't actually destined to be part of the guard codex release wave at all.
For both the Eldar and Tau things that came up as early rumours for Codex content actually materialised as content for the Supplement that followed shortly after - Following that along a similar principal and when taking the Battlezone Armageddon thing into account the Steel Legion Supplement and the hypothetical Steel Legion Regiment boxes could be launched in support of that rather than the 6th Ed IG Codex itself, so they would be for the IG 6th Ed Codex, but not released with it....

Given the ballpark we've got for the Battlezone and the Codex, it's understandable that signals would get crossed in this way, especially as it's happened with Tau and Eldar already this year.

Darnok
21-08-2013, 20:52
For both the Eldar and Tau things that came up as early rumours for Codex content actually materialised as content for the Supplement that followed shortly after

So after zero models with the Eldar supplement, zero models with the Tau supplement and zero models with the CSM supplement... I'd expect the same for any IG one. Don't get your hopes up.

MajorWesJanson
21-08-2013, 20:59
So after zero models with the Eldar supplement, zero models with the Tau supplement and zero models with the CSM supplement... I'd expect the same for any IG one. Don't get your hopes up.

We may start seeing models with supplements once they have all the 6th codices in hardback.

Voss
21-08-2013, 21:01
Adding a new regiment is already starting at a sales disadvantage:
True. It is another reason I think it unlikely- it is more costs to GW, without a clear profit advantage. The old metals had a distinct exploitable flaw in their lines- they were all missing key special or heavy weapons (and the specials were a pain to convert). That isn't the case with the plastics.



Given the ballpark we've got for the Battlezone and the Codex, it's understandable that signals would get crossed in this way, especially as it's happened with Tau and Eldar already this year.
I agree with Darnok- current reality is that if it doesn't happen with the codex (or possibly a preceding wave); it just doesn't happen.

DoctorTom
21-08-2013, 21:34
So after zero models with the Eldar supplement, zero models with the Tau supplement and zero models with the CSM supplement... I'd expect the same for any IG one. Don't get your hopes up.

The Iyanden supplement came out the same month as the Eldar Codex, and the release of the Wraithguard/Wraithblade box, the Wraithknight box and a flyer that's in Iyanden's wheelhouse. It certainly looks like the timing for that supplement was based on the models released. If there's an IG supplement released at the same time as the new Guard codex, you will most likely see the models released for the guard at that time heavily featured in the supplement.

Voss
21-08-2013, 21:45
The Iyanden supplement came out the same month as the Eldar Codex, and the release of the Wraithguard/Wraithblade box, the Wraithknight box and a flyer that's in Iyanden's wheelhouse. It certainly looks like the timing for that supplement was based on the models released. If there's an IG supplement released at the same time as the new Guard codex, you will most likely see the models released for the guard at that time heavily featured in the supplement.

Eh. I think that is just stuff they wanted to release for eldar. The timing of the supplement is more of coincidence than anything else. Or to put it another way, had they released supplement: Biel Tan or Saim Hann instead of Iyanden, it still would have been wraith stuff in the release. They wouldn't have tooled up plastic aspect warriors or new bikes.

RanaldLoec
21-08-2013, 22:48
No rampant speculation about a lovely plastic kit for Ogryns!

Hopefully the big brutes will get a points reduction.

Am I the only guard player also hoping for plastic rough rider's?

Bigglesworth
21-08-2013, 23:08
No rampant speculation about a lovely plastic kit for Ogryns!

Hopefully the big brutes will get a points reduction.

Am I the only guard player also hoping for plastic rough rider's?


Rough Riders would be great, though I am not sure if its likely or not. I've said in the past something like the ones visible on the front of the apocalypse rulebook would be awesome.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm106/Linnear1701/40K/Apoc-1.jpg

Voss
21-08-2013, 23:28
Huh. Those are still metal and plastic models, aren't they. That does make them a bit more likely.

AngryAngel
22-08-2013, 07:11
Honestly, your all disregarding baneblades in standard games ? Living in the world of the wraith knight and Rip tide, the baneblade seems to not fit ? I'm not saying it will happen, but I bet my bottom dollar they'll have some huge tank creation that will be standard legal, if its not a baneblade it'll be a new tank, just to sell a new huge model.

MajorWesJanson
22-08-2013, 08:05
Honestly, your all disregarding baneblades in standard games ? Living in the world of the wraith knight and Rip tide, the baneblade seems to not fit ? I'm not saying it will happen, but I bet my bottom dollar they'll have some huge tank creation that will be standard legal, if its not a baneblade it'll be a new tank, just to sell a new huge model.

Yes. Riptide and Wraithknight are tall, but not all that bulky, and the oval bases have about the same footprint as the Chimaera. A Baneblade has twice the footprint as a Land raider and is slightly taller as well. Depending on terrain, it would have a hard time fitting in the deployment zone of some missions. It's also a superheavy, which would need a lot of crowbarring to fit into a normal codex without adding in the rest of the superheavy rules. The main gun uses a marker that does not even exist in normal 40K, and it has 8 different weapons by default. It's the size, cost, and destructive power of an entire Leman Russ squadron, but would need it's own rules on splitting fire, firing ordinance, and basically it's own vehicle damage chart. Riptides and Wraithknights are physically large models, but use the basic Monstrous Creature rules.
If 7th edition puts rules for superheavies in the BRB, then I could see the Baneblade making it's way into the codex. But not before then.

Crazy Ivan
22-08-2013, 10:37
This looks interesting. As much as I'd like to see them, I understand why people think plastic Steel legion is unlikely. One can hope, though... It would also be great to just see a decent new set of basic Catachan infantry to go with the command and heavy weapons boxes, but seeing GW's usual choices when it comes to existing troop models, that seems even more unlikely.

It will be very interesting to see what they will do with plastic storm troopers - Kasrkin style, the older 'generic' style (also showcased in the current codex) or something completely different? Shame there is still no word regarding plastic Rough Riders and/or Ogryns - I'd look forward to that a lot more than another box of Leman Russ or Chimera variants.

Olja
22-08-2013, 13:35
The Ogryns are newer sculpts and not very popular. I can see them going to resin but not plastic.

Rough Riders haven't had a new sculpt since they came out ( I'm not counting the Tallarn hybrids) in 2nd edition. I don't see them going to resin without at least getting redone. Plastics would be great but I'm not holding my breath.

Bigglesworth
22-08-2013, 13:54
The Ogryns are newer sculpts and not very popular. I can see them going to resin but not plastic.

Rough Riders haven't had a new sculpt since they came out ( I'm not counting the Tallarn hybrids) in 2nd edition. I don't see them going to resin without at least getting redone. Plastics would be great but I'm not holding my breath.



I'm not saying this is evidence of new models in the classic "Look its gone from the online store!" but I can't find any rough riders on their website, I know things go missing from the store all the time and then pop back, but I can't see any at the moment, and given there are no other models to use for them, GW will have to at least finecast them when the new codex comes out to continue their new policy of no rules without models...


And finecast ones would be horrific, would somebody please think of the lances!

Crazy Ivan
22-08-2013, 14:03
The Ogryns are newer sculpts and not very popular. I can see them going to resin but not plastic.
They're newish, but not that new anymore. I think some of the SM van-/sternguard models are newer and they're being "replaced" soon too. I also think that the current price of the metal ogryns, combined with their limited effectiveness, is part of the problem. If they'd give them better rules, I think they'd fit perfectly as the new "big" kit without this needing to be a medium superheavy tank or whatever, and many people would be over them like hotcakes.

As for the Rough Riders, I sometimes get the impression that GW wants to forget about them, as if they don't really fit. You mighjt almost think they'd leave them to Forgeworld only.

Bigglesworth
22-08-2013, 14:09
As for the Rough Riders, I sometimes get the impression that GW wants to forget about them, as if they don't really fit. You mighjt almost think they'd leave them to Forgeworld only.


True, though they did introduce a rough rider character last book, and I'm not really sure people were clamouring for one, but ho hum, it was a few years ago now and things can change.

stevegill
22-08-2013, 14:19
I'm not saying this is evidence of new models in the classic "Look its gone from the online store!" but I can't find any rough riders on their website, I know things go missing from the store all the time and then pop back, but I can't see any at the moment, and given there are no other models to use for them, GW will have to at least finecast them when the new codex comes out to continue their new policy of no rules without models...


And finecast ones would be horrific, would somebody please think of the lances!

Though this does presume that Rough Riders will remain in the codex

edit, ninja'd


True, though they did introduce a rough rider character last book, and I'm not really sure people were clamouring for one, but ho hum, it was a few years ago now and things can change.

Yes, but one character for a unit that's no longer supported does not a convincing argument make. Was there even a figure?

Crazy Ivan
22-08-2013, 14:26
Yes, but one character for a unit that's no longer supported does not a convincing argument make. Was there even a figure?
No figure for him, unfortunately. He was also not really a new character, just one they dredged up from a previous incarnation of the codex (like they did for Chenkov and Alrahem, though they at least both had models already).

On the other hand, is there any recent case of units disappearing completely from a codex? The models remain a problem, though - as Bigglesworth mention finecast RR would be horribly fragile. At least the Forgworld models evade that problem by having the lances be metal rods.

Cypher
22-08-2013, 14:38
Yes. Riptide and Wraithknight are tall, but not all that bulky, and the oval bases have about the same footprint as the Chimaera. A Baneblade has twice the footprint as a Land raider and is slightly taller as well. Depending on terrain, it would have a hard time fitting in the deployment zone of some missions. It's also a superheavy, which would need a lot of crowbarring to fit into a normal codex without adding in the rest of the superheavy rules. The main gun uses a marker that does not even exist in normal 40K, and it has 8 different weapons by default. It's the size, cost, and destructive power of an entire Leman Russ squadron, but would need it's own rules on splitting fire, firing ordinance, and basically it's own vehicle damage chart. Riptides and Wraithknights are physically large models, but use the basic Monstrous Creature rules.
If 7th edition puts rules for superheavies in the BRB, then I could see the Baneblade making it's way into the codex. But not before then.

Im inclined to agree - the Baneblade is physically too large to be practical in normal games.

If we dont get a big walker, a "bigger" tank might be viable. But I cant see it being a baneblade

childsoldier
22-08-2013, 14:51
As well as the arguments put forward before, there's also the points consideration for the Baneblade rumour. I don't own the Tau nor Eldar codices, but if memory serves the Wraithknight and Riptide cap out points wise around the 250-300 mark (correct me if I'm wrong here). Some of the more expensive LR variants, kitted out with side sponsons, maybe extra armour and a dozer blade, comes in at a similar 250ish, up to 300 if you include the Pask upgrade. A Baneblade, even a toned down one, would cost well above that. How much does it cost in the new iteration of Apocalypse? I'd imagine a 40k-ready Baneblade would still be coming in around 400 pts basic, and to my knowledge GW has never had a single model cost that much points wise.

Even if it did make its way into the Codex, I could never see myself using on in standard games, even though I own one. I'd rather reserve it for larger games/Apocalypse. That said, I do play smaller games (usually 1k) than seems normal for other people. Personally, I'd be far more interested in RRs (please let them be on bikes...) and non-silly looking plastic Ogryn, but we shall see.

DoctorTom
22-08-2013, 15:41
Eh. I think that is just stuff they wanted to release for eldar. The timing of the supplement is more of coincidence than anything else. Or to put it another way, had they released supplement: Biel Tan or Saim Hann instead of Iyanden, it still would have been wraith stuff in the release. They wouldn't have tooled up plastic aspect warriors or new bikes.

I disagree with you there, and quite frankly think it's naive to think that they didn't choose to do Iyanden first because of the new models they released at the same time. If they had decided to do Saim Hann first I guarantee that they would have released new jetbikes - rumors about mew jetbikes seem to have been around as long as rumors about plastic greatcoats. ;) If they had decided to have gone with plastic aspect releases when the Codex came out, I assure you that it would have been a Biel-Tan supplement instead of Iyanden. Of course, when they run out of new codex updates, I'm sure that they'll put out new jetbikes and "coincidentally" have a Saim Hann supplement at that time, or release some plastic aspects and "coincidentally" put out the Biel-Tan supplement.

The main question now is whether they put out an IG supplement the same time as the IG Codex, or if they do a Warzone supplement that month. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Steel Legion supplement from other rumors is put out with the IG Codex, later at the same time as 4-5 other supplements. Based on Iyanden, the supplement they put out could be expected to tie in with the new plastic releases. If the only new stuff that was put out for IG was new tanks, then they would probably go with an Armoured Company supplement. If they do go with plastic greatcoats (here, have some salt with that ;) ) then Steel Legion makes sense. They might even do Steel Legion without plastic greatcoats; we'll have to see.

Bigglesworth
22-08-2013, 16:03
On the other hand, is there any recent case of units disappearing completely from a codex? The models remain a problem, though - as Bigglesworth mention finecast RR would be horribly fragile. At least the Forgworld models evade that problem by having the lances be metal rods.


As far as I know they are still bendy resin lances, (I have a few Tallarn Mounts) however it seems to be standard procedure among sensible modellers to replace these with equvilent brass rod as the lance is self is just a rod with the shaped charge stuck on the end and you don't lose detail.



Oh wait ignore me, the death riders come with brass rods, something I never knew, they learned since doing the tallarn ones it seems.



Anyway not wanting to move into the realms of speculation, theres always more fluff scope to add vehicles to the imperial guard than there is to the space marine codex, Black Libary Writers at least seem to come up with weird and wonderful additions all the time and a new walker could easily be doable as long as its not just a large sentinel (I'm thinking four legs not two) Or just a tank in-between leman russ and macharius size.

I.e there would not be the same fluff outrage, given the IG are the most varied military organisation in the Galaxy.

lordbeefy
23-08-2013, 19:33
Larger tank, not SH class, well established in fluff....Ragnarok.

Easy new addition for a new codex, while not violating 40k/apocalypse crossover rules.

Voss
23-08-2013, 23:11
I disagree with you there, and quite frankly think it's naive to think that they didn't choose to do Iyanden first because of the new models they released at the same time. If they had decided to do Saim Hann first I guarantee that they would have released new jetbikes - rumors about mew jetbikes seem to have been around as long as rumors about plastic greatcoats. ;) If they had decided to have gone with plastic aspect releases when the Codex came out, I assure you that it would have been a Biel-Tan supplement instead of Iyanden. Of course, when they run out of new codex updates, I'm sure that they'll put out new jetbikes and "coincidentally" have a Saim Hann supplement at that time, or release some plastic aspects and "coincidentally" put out the Biel-Tan supplement.

That reasoning falls apart with the other supplements, however- there wasn't a new plastic battlesuit or firewarrior box to support the Farsight supplement, however, or multipose chosen box to support the Black Legion supplement (the ones in DV only go so far, and look more like characters than 'chosen,' given the rest of the CSM range).
I just think people are reading so much more into these supplements than is actually present. Which was fine at first, but getting confusing after three supplement releases.

Joewrightgm
23-08-2013, 23:18
Long Coat guard have been spotted more times then Elvis; I'm throwing Faeit's rumors into a salt mine.

Bloodknight
24-08-2013, 00:04
The Ogryns are newer sculpts and not very popular.

If they managed to give them a set of good rules for a change, that might help their sales a lot. Ogryns are very difficult to use to the players advantage and even if you manage to do so, in 90% of the cases you think if you shouldn't have spent the points on something else. That is mostly because they always come with a ridiculous flaw that makes them almost unusable, in 3rd edition their toughness was crap and they were expensive, in 4th edition they got cheaper, but still died like flies and had a crappy gun, now in 5th/6th the statline and the good gun would be almost ok for the price if they didn't have a ridiculously low LD value that makes them very susceptible to fleeing from shooting and still no access to something that breaks armour on the Bonehead. Give them LD8/9 and let the Bonehead take a power axe and people will play them, I bet.

This is coming from a huge raving fan of the Ogryn, mind. I've got 20 of them (the old ones, though, with a few converted BB Ogres as Boneheads), I've even played games with armies consisting of 3 Ogryn squads, some veteran/penal legionnaire units in Troops and a couple fire support tanks, and they were a hoot, although not effective. The rules have always been their weakness, the last time they were something remotely close to good was in 2nd edition, and back then actually the Orks could hire better Ogryns than the IG (how I envied our Ork player for the Ogryn Mighty Hero...).


Though this does presume that Rough Riders will remain in the codex
I can't really think of their getting dropped, they're an iconic unit of the IG, have been in every codex so far and with two relatively short exceptions (3rd ed army book list and 3.0 codex) they were also always good at their job. Mine once managed to kill a Nightbringer; sure, they all died in the resulting blast, but it was fun ^^.

Azazyll
24-08-2013, 23:06
If they didn't cut the jetbike seer council, they're not cutting rough riders.

Gungo
25-08-2013, 01:21
You know what would be cool and sell more catachan models. An elite option in the main codex for a catachan devil squad.

Honestly I think at some point people are right there are to many unique models for IG to make a full plastic steel legion 3 box set. Although catachan doesn't sell that we'll so who knows. They would be better off pushing Cadians and steel legion and have an elite option for catachan devils.

Shibboleth
25-08-2013, 03:59
Adding a new regiment is already starting at a sales disadvantage: ...
While I wouldn't discount your argument I think it will also generate a lot of new sales to IG from people that have been put off so far.
I've been holding off on Imperial Guard for 20 years or so, for one thing because neither Cadian or Catachan plastics appeal to me, and the other metals are too hard to convert / too expensive (as are FW DKoK), and secondly because the massed numbers of troops an IG needs are intimidating to have to paint.
I think Steel Legion plastics with their faceless helms and long coats will be a lot, lot easier and cheaper to build a nice size army quickly.
Long coat IG have also been in high demand for years and GW seems to be picking up on that kind of thing more than usual lately... There's also the customisation ability of only needing a head swap to create Valhallans, etc. which could even be included on a well designed sprue... So it could be two new regiments in one release (at least), not one.

Voss
25-08-2013, 05:11
You know what would be cool and sell more catachan models. An elite option in the main codex for a catachan devil squad.


Eh. With a few exceptions (psyker squads, Marbo, and to some extent ratlings), the reality that every elite choice in the guard list has to deal with is that the ally rules exist. Just pulling troops from another codex fills a hole in the guard line up in a way that an 'elite' guard choice never will. Which to some extent is fine (take a look at Priests & Lords of Mars, the Templar contingent is 6 men, for an entire Explorator Fleet), but it makes designing IG elite choices really odd. Especially since 'veteran' is already covered in the troops slot.

Pickle_mole
26-08-2013, 04:22
I really hope this is true. I had just sworn off 40k, mad about the cost of the hobby (also being a guard guy and not having any interesting and fleshed out non cadian army options). I had sold it all and spent 100 dollars on a full army of bolt action soviets. And yet If steel legion plastics came out I would be pulled back in with a smile

svinkelz
26-08-2013, 09:03
I think Steel Legion plastics with their faceless helms and long coats will be a lot, lot easier and cheaper to build a nice size army quickly.
Long coat IG have also been in high demand for years and GW seems to be picking up on that kind of thing more than usual lately... There's also the customisation ability of only needing a head swap to create Valhallans, etc. which could even be included on a well designed sprue... So it could be two new regiments in one release (at least), not one.

Steel legion coats are more tallarn look alike than valhan imo.

But this still gives the opportunity to raise IG specific regiments with very little conversion skills.

It makes me think that the two actual plastic regiments are probably the worst kits in terms of conversions possibilities. I bet noone ever tried to convert tallarns with cadian kits.

As everyone said before, even if it would be awesome, I don't think we'll ever see it appear in stores ...

BigDuke6
26-08-2013, 15:26
Well rerst assured of one thing...GW will produce some massive big model to flog to us hobbyists, regardless of it really fitting in with the army.

svinkelz
26-08-2013, 16:03
What would it be then ?

Another super-heavy baneblade variant ? A new leman russ heavy variant ? A big bomber ? If you add the FW range, there's too many of them imo.

I bet on an heavy walker . Knight titan or a kind of exo-armour (Ripley !?Is that you ?).




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MajorWesJanson
26-08-2013, 16:16
What would it be then ?

Another super-heavy baneblade variant ? A new leman russ heavy variant ? A big bomber ? If you add the FW range, there's too many of them imo.

I bet on an heavy walker . Knight titan or a kind of exo-armour (Ripley !?Is that you ?).




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Hoping for a Knight Paladin/Errant/Lancer kit personally.

Guard likely won't get a big kit this time around, as they still have a number of tank kits they need to produce to cover already existing options.

Shibboleth
26-08-2013, 16:47
Plastic Macharius would be awesome too, but still super heavy - although maybe more acceptable to de-super-heaviarise it's rules?

Crazy Ivan
26-08-2013, 17:18
Someone mentioned the Ragnarok tank as a possibility, but I feel it's not different enough from the Leman Russ MBT to make that a reality. You could easily represent one with the Russ' rules.

A Knight would be cool. If not, perhaps a Thunderbolt?

svinkelz
26-08-2013, 17:25
Plastic Macharius would be awesome too, but still super heavy - although maybe more acceptable to de-super-heaviarise it's rules?

If they de-super-heaviarise a super heavy, it would be more likely to be a malcador variant.

They're only 6 HPs now and cost a little more than a land raider.

I agree it would be awesome to get a plastic macharius ... So awesome ! I don't think FW will let its best superheavy go for plastic ;)


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razormasticator
26-08-2013, 18:13
People have been wishlisting and or talking about Standard Storm Troopers since the 4th Edition IG codex. I would be super shocked if it happened.

DoctorTom
26-08-2013, 19:28
That reasoning falls apart with the other supplements, however- there wasn't a new plastic battlesuit or firewarrior box to support the Farsight supplement, however, or multipose chosen box to support the Black Legion supplement (the ones in DV only go so far, and look more like characters than 'chosen,' given the rest of the CSM range).
I just think people are reading so much more into these supplements than is actually present. Which was fine at first, but getting confusing after three supplement releases.

I didn't claim it for any of the other supplements, did I? On the other hand, you tried claiming the models they made for Eldar had nothing at all to do with them putting out Iyanden at the same time. and said that no supplements at all had models released for them. It only takes one counter-example to disprove your statement. We'll know what the trends are like the next time a codex has its supplement released at the same time as the parent codex. As it stands right now, it's 1 for 1 in regards to the model releases tying into the theme of the supplement released at the same time as the codex.

If you see an IG supplement released the same month as the IG codex itself, rest assured that the supplement will have been considered so as to help sell the models that are being put out that month.

borithan
27-08-2013, 11:14
There's also the customisation ability of only needing a head swap to create Valhallans, etc. which could even be included on a well designed sprue... So it could be two new regiments in one release (at least), not one.The Valhallan Coats are noticeably different from the Steel Legion ones. They are longer and heavier. No single figure could do the current models properly. Also the Steel Legion currently have bits of gear attached to the front of their jackets.

Now, if they change the style of both they could do it (like they did with Cadians), but with the current style of the models they couldn't be done with the same body as a basis.

Crazy Ivan
27-08-2013, 11:21
The Valhallan Coats are noticeably different from the Steel Legion ones. They are longer and heavier. No single figure could do the current models properly. Also the Steel Legion currently have bits of gear attached to the front of their jackets.

Now, if they change the style of both they could do it (like they did with Cadians), but with the current style of the models they couldn't be done with the same body as a basis.
If they redo one or the other I'd say a style change is pretty much a given - the Valhallan models especially are already very old, and if with some modifications the bodies would be usable for both, I'd say that's a possibility. I'm not saying they will do exactly that, but I would be very surprised if they released new guardsmen plastics and have them adhere to the style of a previously metal regiment exactly. Compare also the newer Necron and Dark Eldar units, who are very different from their previous incarnations visually.

borithan
27-08-2013, 11:29
Well, in the case of the Dark Eldar particularly the old models were terrible. Steel Legion on the other hand actually stand up quite well. Also, most of the 2nd ed metals for the Imperial Guard don't stand up too badly. They are a bit sparse, granted, and some of the more static poses could be improved, but the only thing I would say really needed updating are the weapons. Those are... well, incredibly dated, the lasguns and flamers (god, that thing is ugly) particularly. On the other hand I actually prefer the 2nd ed plasma gun, when it wasn't painted bright orange.

TheBearminator
27-08-2013, 21:44
Nope, Eldar Wraithknight is a Monstrous Creature, not a superheavy.

If you combined the "giant oval base model" and "model from epic" rumors, you could potentially get the Knight Paladin/Errant/Lancer (not Knight Titan!), but that is nearly as much wishlist. Still, a Walker with say 5-6 HP and a powerfield on a large oval would fit, where a MC would not for guard. But again, that is mainly wishlisting.

Orks are not going to get the giant footprint Stompa in their book when GW could sell a new $85 model on a large oval that has existed in the ork fluff forever- the Squiggoth/Orkeosaurus. Again, wishlisting, and it would overlap with FW some, but unlike most newer FW models, it has been around forever in GW fluff.

I really hope IG don't get a two legged beast. I love them as the down to earth codex. Sentinels are fine, other than that I just want tanks. But seriously, how many IG codices will we see before they get rid of the awful Leman Russ chassis?!

Edit: Sorry. SwiftKey messed a lot with my writing. Corrections done.

SinCollector
27-08-2013, 21:58
I really hope IG don't get a two legged beast. I love them as they down to earth codex. Sentinels aren't fine, other than that I just want tanks. But seriously, how many IG codices will we see before they get rid of the awful Leman Russ chassis?!

Infinity? It's the signature tank of the Imperial Guard. It's not going to disappear.

Bigglesworth
27-08-2013, 22:17
Infinity? It's the signature tank of the Imperial Guard. It's not going to disappear.

A better proportioned redesign like the forgeworld Mars pattern version is not out of the question, though that won't satisfy someone who wants to move away from WW1 track design. There were two new russes last codex though so its unlikely to happen

TheBearminator
27-08-2013, 23:07
Infinity? It's the signature tank of the Imperial Guard. It's not going to disappear.


Regarding the Leman Russ. The Rhino chassis got updated, right? Even though the new one ain't new anymore. Besides, the Leman Russ isn't in line with any other vehicle in the IG range. Not the Chimera, the Hellhound, the Baneblade, the (Forgeworld) Hydra or even the prehistoric artillery vehicles or the flyers.

The Leman Russ with its absurd proportions is perfect for a cute Ork conversion with a crazed gretchin peeking out of the top hatch, but as an IG vehicle it's just not right. It's looks misplaced by 38 200 years.

Lucky we've got other model produces in this business as it seems the current GW policy is to replace nothing until every unit has an official model, no matter how it looks.

Shibboleth
28-08-2013, 01:19
What style would you prefer for a Leman Russ? Abrams type maybe?
That'd be a bit too modern for me.
I like the height of the Russ though. A lower flatter design wouldn't feel right anymore.
Although a mini Macharius style tank could be good.

TheBearminator
28-08-2013, 03:01
What style would you prefer for a Leman Russ? Abrams type maybe?
That'd be a bit too modern for me.
I like the height of the Russ though. A lower flatter design wouldn't feel right anymore.
Although a mini Macharius style tank could be good.

A baby Macharius is precisely my idea of a "modern" Russ. I'm using the Mortian battle tank and think it's exactly the right size and proportions. Now if GW would produce such a tank in plastic... :)

MajorWesJanson
28-08-2013, 12:47
GW just updated the Russ kit in the last few years. It's not going anywhere for like a decade.

svinkelz
28-08-2013, 14:08
GW just updated the Russ kit in the last few years. It's not going anywhere for like a decade.

They also updated the chimera, not for the best I think.

It lowers the chance of possible new tanks for the next codex .

I guess we'll see updated miniatures (catachan?) and probably a "big boned super strong walker" (monstruous creature?).

Any rumors on the author btw ?


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Shibboleth
28-08-2013, 14:23
They also updated the chimera, not for the best I think.

It lowers the chance of possible new tanks for the next codex .

There are rumours of a Thunderer/Destroyer plastic kit, which is the Leman Russ hull.

Bigglesworth
28-08-2013, 14:51
There are rumours of a Thunderer/Destroyer plastic kit, which is the Leman Russ hull.

The forge world version uses the mars alpha pattern hull which is larger, and I assume GW would want to do more for the model than stick a big laser gun in the Russes hull mount, so maybe we would see a larger hull for that model, though the tracks would be the same, as well as the lower hull.



There's a good track record of new vehicle variants having some nice new hull pieces to be more than weapon swaps, the new hellhound, the Manticore/Deathstrike ect ect. Even the new space marine AA

TheBearminator
29-08-2013, 14:42
There are rumours of a Thunderer/Destroyer plastic kit, which is the Leman Russ hull.

Lord have mercy upon us and give us Jeeps/Hummers or something instead. We already have a very, very wide range of tanks. Give us something lighter, faster with wheels. Please!

stevegill
29-08-2013, 14:51
Lord have mercy upon us and give us Jeeps/Hummers or something instead. We already have a very, very wide range of tanks. Give us something lighter, faster with wheels. Please!

The Omnissiah does not approve of the use of wheels on combat vehicles larger than bikes and thus there are no STCs for such heresy.

svinkelz
29-08-2013, 15:30
The Omnissiah does not approve of the use of wheels on combat vehicles larger than bikes and thus there are no STCs for such heresy.

Elysian Tauros and Tauros Venator are heretic then ? :D


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TheBearminator
29-08-2013, 15:53
Elysian Tauros and Tauros Venator are heretic then ? :D


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That's a beautiful model indeed. I was actually just about to start a thread on the subject "How to get Jeeps into my non-Forgeworld 40k game?" But elysian allies would do, if it's legal. The sad thing would by I'd have to buy one of their books to be able to field it. As well as including some elysian troops and hq that I don't really want (I guess the Taurus is a fast choice?)

Or maybe you you use them as count-as, but for what?

Sorry for being off topic. If I offended someone please tell and I'll just make my own thread instead.

stevegill
29-08-2013, 17:19
Elysian Tauros and Tauros Venator are heretic then ? :D

Well do they look remotely like any authorised Munitorum vehicles? :chrome:

I think they may be converted civilian vehicles so light enough to grav-drop and quite nimble but unlikely to be as durable as the Munitorum would like.


That's a beautiful model indeed. I was actually just about to start a thread on the subject "How to get Jeeps into my non-Forgeworld 40k game?" But elysian allies would do, if it's legal. The sad thing would by I'd have to buy one of their books to be able to field it. As well as including some elysian troops and hq that I don't really want (I guess the Taurus is a fast choice?)

Or maybe you you use them as count-as, but for what?

Sorry for being off topic. If I offended someone please tell and I'll just make my own thread instead.

(That might be for the best)

Would they not be good count-as sentinels? I would almost go so far as to think they'd make good rough riders but they're a little too large for that.

TheBearminator
29-08-2013, 18:37
Shadow post.

TheBearminator
29-08-2013, 18:38
I would love to read the elysian rules for them (or rather Forgeworlds interpretation of such a vehicle). I'd like to see them as fast, very lightly armoured vehicles (armour 9-10, perhaps also open topped), armed with a twinlinked heavy stubber and almost free of charge (like 20 points?).

Gerod253
29-08-2013, 19:08
Plastic Stormtroopers would be probably the thing that I'd be most interested in out of the first list. Plastic Steel Legion would be amazing, and I know I'd collect a large amount, but I agree that it doesn't seem likely with the current pattern of releases. Here's hoping we're wrong though. :)

Thanks for sharing the rumors Chem-Dog. Hope you have a good one.

DoctorTom
29-08-2013, 19:45
The Omnissiah does not approve of the use of wheels on combat vehicles larger than bikes and thus there are no STCs for such heresy.

Then how about Tauros and Tauros Venerator bodies on top of Walkers, at least until the AdMech work out how to fit them with antigrav?

Bigglesworth
29-08-2013, 21:25
That's a beautiful model indeed. I was actually just about to start a thread on the subject "How to get Jeeps into my non-Forgeworld 40k game?" But elysian allies would do, if it's legal. The sad thing would by I'd have to buy one of their books to be able to field it. As well as including some elysian troops and hq that I don't really want (I guess the Taurus is a fast choice?)

Or maybe you you use them as count-as, but for what?

Sorry for being off topic. If I offended someone please tell and I'll just make my own thread instead.

In the new imperial armour 1 you can take taurus and drop sentinels in a standard ig army no need to ally them. Still an issue if you play against those with a resin allergy ;-)

TheBearminator
29-08-2013, 23:58
In the new imperial armour 1 you can take taurus and drop sentinels in a standard ig army no need to ally them. Still an issue if you play against those with a resin allergy ;-)

Ah! That true? :) Awesome! Could you do the same with death korps units?

Bigglesworth
30-08-2013, 00:56
Yes to the centuar and macharius, centuar is a 5 man vet transport, most of the heavy artillery too

TheBearminator
30-08-2013, 09:18
Yes to the centuar and macharius, centuar is a 5 man vet transport, most of the heavy artillery too

Thank you! I'll now stop polluting this thread with my dreams. ;)

Haravikk
30-08-2013, 20:54
If the rumours of a second Aspect Warrior focused kit update for Eldar are true then it could be that we'd see some Steel Legion stuff whenever their supplement arrives (if that's true though then my money'd be on the Catachan supplement coming first). Super Heavies in the main list seems really unlikely; guard really don't have any shortage of vehicles, if anything they have far too many as it is so rumours of them getting another new one is a bit annoying. With a bit of luck the vehicles will fit into two plastic hybrid kits; for example, they could possibly do something with the Griffon so that the Hydra turret uses the same basic base, one of the other artillery vehicles could use the Griffon as the base of a larger weapon by adding a barrel (think of how the Shadowsword volcano cannon is structured). It's a bit wish-listy, but it means there might be a possibility for another kit; guard could use a plastic Ogryn kit for example, especially since they're still metal.

TheBearminator
30-08-2013, 21:31
Even though ogryns are not on my wishlist, I could set that happen. How many models that big are metal/finecast these days?

Avian
30-08-2013, 23:02
Most models in that size category are in metal / resin, actually.

MajorWesJanson
30-08-2013, 23:08
Most models in that size category are in metal / resin, actually.

Yeah, quite a few models of that size are still around and would benefit from a conversion to a plastic 3-pack
Krootox
Obliterators/Mutilators
Zoanthropes/Venomthropes
Tyrant Guard/Hive Guard
Biovore/Pyrovore
Ogryn
Beasts of Nurgle
Fiends of Slaanesh
DE Grotesques
Meganobz

TheBearminator
31-08-2013, 16:34
Damn, you're right. Odd, as we have so many plastic midsized models in fantasy. I mean like kroxigors, rat ogres other kinds of ogres and cavalry units.

Brotheroracle
01-09-2013, 03:30
Damn, you're right. Odd, as we have so many plastic midsized models in fantasy. I mean like kroxigors, rat ogres other kinds of ogres and cavalry units.

I thought kroxigors were finecast...

TheBearminator
01-09-2013, 06:34
I thought kroxigors were finecast...

Yeah. I wanted to check that before I wrote it but yesterday the homepage was down almost all day. I could add dragon ogres and river trolls instead. But can we agree we have a lot of ogryn sized fantasy models in plastic?

Avian
01-09-2013, 06:53
Yeah, but still less than half are plastic.

TheBearminator
01-09-2013, 07:52
Yeah, but still less than half are plastic.

Add in cavalry and a great deal of Ogre Kingdom units. No, not all of them are plastic but I still think 40k falls short here.

Haravikk
01-09-2013, 13:06
Most models in that size category are in metal / resin, actually.
True, given that they're currently still in metal and have been for a while, it seems like it'd be a better move to come out with a good plastic kit for them, maybe with a hybrid role. It'd be nice to see more of them actually used so that guard have more than just standard human profiles then the jump to tanks. An update of ratlings wouldn't go amiss either, show us some love for the abhuman elements of the guard! Pure wish-listing of course, but my original point was that there may only need to be two new vehicle kits which could mean there's a possibility for something else in the release. Thinking about it, it could be a Steel Legion box, it really depends whether the model release rumours for future supplements hold any water; if not then if the Steel Legion rumour is true I'd bet on them being part of the guard model releases, otherwise we might see something else first with Steel Legion later on.

MajorWesJanson
01-09-2013, 18:21
Add in cavalry and a great deal of Ogre Kingdom units. No, not all of them are plastic but I still think 40k falls short here.

If you count cavalry, you have to count bikes in 40K. Ironically, the only cav unit I can think of in 40K, IG roughriders, are still in metal

RanaldLoec
01-09-2013, 18:36
If you count cavalry, you have to count bikes in 40K. Ironically, the only cav unit I can think of in 40K, IG roughriders, are still in metal

Seekers of slaanesh, khorne bloodletternaught thingys, not sure if the new nurgle kit is cavalry or jump infantry.

MajorWesJanson
01-09-2013, 19:07
Seekers of slaanesh, khorne bloodletternaught thingys, not sure if the new nurgle kit is cavalry or jump infantry.

True, those are all plastic.

Bigglesworth
01-09-2013, 19:46
Rough riders are unavailable so they only exist in our imagination now ;)

DoctorTom
02-09-2013, 02:58
Rough riders are unavailable so they only exist in our imagination now ;)

Not true - they have the rough rider command figure. He's probably feeling pretty lonely by himself, though...

Bigglesworth
02-09-2013, 03:30
Not true - they have the rough rider command figure. He's probably feeling pretty lonely by himself, though...

Well stock levels may differ depending on your country, but I don't think he's going to be replaced when he runs out...

TheBearminator
02-09-2013, 07:08
Not the specific model, but I can't see the unit being removed. If any was to be cancelled, my money would have on ogryns or ratlings.

Crazy Ivan
02-09-2013, 08:14
Not the specific model, but I can't see the unit being removed. If any was to be cancelled, my money would have on ogryns or ratlings.
Why though? Their models are both far newer than the RR (Ogryns were released with the first Apocalypse book, Ratlings along with the last IG Codex). I can't really see them removing any completely...

Shibboleth
02-09-2013, 08:34
With Rough Riders appearing on the cover of Apocalypse they're obviously still in GW's vision for the IG.

Avian
02-09-2013, 08:39
This is yet another point that comes up with just about every release: existing units are essentially never dropped these days.
(Presumably because there is no profit in doing so.)

TheBearminator
02-09-2013, 09:38
This is yet another point that comes up with just about every release: existing units are essentially never dropped these days.
(Presumably because there is no profit in doing so.)

No that's true. Honestly I don't think either ogryns or ratlings would be in the codex if IG were invented today. But still I don't think any of the current IG units will be removed in the next codex. People tend to go mad when their ridiculously expensive and carefully painted toy soldiers get kicked out.

stevegill
02-09-2013, 10:35
No that's true. Honestly I don't think either ogryns or ratlings would be in the codex if IG were invented today. But still I don't think any of the current IG units will be removed in the next codex. People tend to go mad when their ridiculously expensive and carefully painted toy soldiers get kicked out.

You mean like when they removed all the Inquisition units from the Sisters?

There was surprisingly little nerdrage considering how much some of those figures cost.

TheBearminator
02-09-2013, 11:44
You mean like when they removed all the Inquisition units from the Sisters?

There was surprisingly little nerdrage considering how much some of those figures cost.

Yeah, that's odd. Since Sob-players often strike me as the biggest nerds of all.

Demiurg
02-09-2013, 11:56
Considering they should not have been there in the first place was the big thing.
And were they not put into the GK codex?

Shibboleth
02-09-2013, 12:20
Yeah I don't think Inq fans would have believed they wouldn't be back in some form soon, and so no desperation to the nerdrage.

Demiurg
02-09-2013, 12:58
I do find it strange the way SoB fans are talked about, but considering they are on permanent hold I doubt this to change any time soon.

stevegill
02-09-2013, 13:19
Yeah, that's odd. Since Sob-players often strike me as the biggest nerds of all.

Why thank you, I think :p


Considering they should not have been there in the first place was the big thing.
And were they not put into the GK codex?

Whether or not they belonged is a separate debate all of its own. The fact that few Sisters players would have a use for the figures once they were removed from the Sisters codex was the point. Those were very expensive figures that were simply removed from one codex to the next as had also happened with our Frateris units when WitchHunters was released.


I do find it strange the way SoB fans are talked about, but considering they are on permanent hold I doubt this to change any time soon.

We live in a permanent state of hope that the God-Emperor hasn't forgotten us and our ridiculously expensive collections may somehow become an acceptable part of the game once more :angel:

benogham
02-09-2013, 14:52
pour the salt as needed :



via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
This is from a supposed playtesting document I was able to flip through ( I have no way to verify that this was actually a real playtesting document, but I thought most of it sounds pretty reasonable):

Company Command is now the only, real“ HQ you can chose but you can swap the Commander for a Lord-Commissar.
Primaris Psyker are now Advisors, Bodyguards are gone .
Only Cadian named characters in this document.
Salamander is in as transport for CCS/PCS, open-topped Chimera with Autocannon, transports 6.
Engineeers are Elite now (but 1-3 per slot), can buff squads in the vicinity (think Force Field and such).
Priests must join a squad and won’t take HQ slots.

Veterans, get some lose some“. Size 5-10, can take 1 heavy wepaon or 1 special weapon per 5 soldiers. Bastogne is gone but every Veteran Sarge can give orders now. Can still take shotguns and get option to take pistol & CCW. New Veteran ability allows charging out of transport.

Special Weapon and Heavy Weapon Squads are now 10 men each.

Vendetta is gone, instead Valkyries can take the Vendettas-loadout for +45 points.

Only one entry for Sentinels, no armor upgrade, closed cabin has no game effect but is just cosmetical.

Thunderer/Destroyer is in, Thunderer is a cheap Demolisher with nothing but a hull-mounted Demolisher cannon. Destroyer is a dedicated tank hunter with a laser-lance weapon. Have a, hull-down“ rule that makes them extremely hard to kill if in cover, seem to be area-control units.

There was talk about a new Cadian Veteran plastic set, 5 miniatures with all options.

Heavy Weapon Squad will be repacked to include one sprue of standard Cadian infantry.
Special Weapon Squads might get their own box with a new special weapon sprue (which is also used for Veteran box).

Bigglesworth
02-09-2013, 16:42
The hull down rule for the destroyer tank hunter sounds interesting, as its based on real tank tactics and would make them more useful than they are currently.

Would you say "Area control units" means they are scoring units?

Its madness to try and get into the mindset of a fake rumour monger but it all sounds fairly plausible, though perhaps thats the point?

Missing non cadian characters could mean supplements, or just them dropping support for other guard regiments, or just be troll a tactic to make non cadian players rage about nothing.

GiToRaZor
02-09-2013, 16:58
Sry but I call BS. IG are already fairly limited in their possible HQ choices and that would limit them even more to the point that the Lord Commissar becomes obsolete since he can't join a blob. Now stuck with your CCS, you are either forced to go the stracken way or field at least two HWS. Not gonna happen. Same argument goes for the sentinel, enclosed crew compartment will always mean that the vehicle is at least no longer open topped. Also, while the Thunderer is a nice vehicle, does IG really need jet another HS choice. Especially since it is nothing else than a cheap LR Demolisher? But what really kicks it of is the mentioning of the repacked HW squads. We were at that point already some 8 years ago IIRC, and GW had good reason to sell them seperately. IG is already a pretty pricey army, not even todays GW would pull that off. Especially with that rumor that means you would need to buy 10 boxes. Instead I would find it rather possible that they release a brand new sprue for infantry with all Special options and heads that are not identical, and lets admit it, rather less ugly.

Bigglesworth
02-09-2013, 17:20
Something in a Destroyer / Thunderer Kit would be that GW love any excuse for a duel kit these days, and this example is perfect for that.

As for being a cheap demolisher, it does not matter as people will have to go out and buy one or two kits to get their cheap demolisher fix, selling kits is what GW do and people spamming demolishers already have their tanks... And now heres a better version for £35-£40

Crazy Ivan
02-09-2013, 17:51
Sry but I call BS. IG are already fairly limited in their possible HQ choices and that would limit them even more to the point that the Lord Commissar becomes obsolete since he can't join a blob. Now stuck with your CCS, you are either forced to go the stracken way or field at least two HWS.
That wouldn't even be possile, as apparently all non-Cadian characters would be disappearing, so no Straken... These rumors also say Bastonne is gone (which is somewhat plausible as he doesn't even have a model), which leaves only Creed, Kell and Pask as special characters. It all sounds extremely unlikely to me: Codex: Cadians with unnecessary organizational changes, mini-veteran squads (with fewer special weapons) and infantry-supporting enginseers?

DoctorTom
02-09-2013, 18:06
You mean like when they removed all the Inquisition units from the Sisters?

There was surprisingly little nerdrage considering how much some of those figures cost.

You mean all the Inquisition figures that can still be used with the Grey Knights Codex?

RanaldLoec
02-09-2013, 18:09
pour the salt as needed :

I've added vinegar and ketchup as well.

Thanks for sharing.

DaHedd
02-09-2013, 18:54
I quite like the idea of 10 manheavy & special squads, from a modelling perspective if not a gaming one.Is the plan for 3 2man teams & 4 regular guys (fodder) ? I can see a Sarge pointing & shouting orders while the other 3 haul ammo boxes.

Gungo
02-09-2013, 19:02
Why though? Their models are both far newer than the RR (Ogryns were released with the first Apocalypse book, Ratlings along with the last IG Codex). I can't really see them removing any completely...

Ratling models just are not needed. They could just make an elite sniper squad option that consists of a mix stat line of conscripts/ratling stats and include the sniper rifles on a 5 man dual use sprue. Its better for GW.

I dont believe the previous rumour why? because that means more completely NEW plastic kits then even the space marine codex and that will never happen. Seriously that rumour claims a new thunderer box, new hydra box, new salamander box, new veteran/stormtrooper box, new rumoured artillery box, new plastic HWS cadian box, New Plastic cadian SWS box, New Engineer sqaud, and several finecast cadian Special characters.

I am sure the new IG codex will have some changes, but I dont expect many real surprises since they need to produce the kits they are missing already. Hydra, vet/stormtrooper plastic, multiple artillery dual kits (possibly more then 1 box). Beyond that MAYBE 1 new plastic surprise box. All these rumours of like 8+ new kits are just not possible.

MajorWesJanson
02-09-2013, 19:32
Company Command is now the only, real“ HQ you can chose but you can swap the Commander for a Lord-Commissar.
Primaris Psyker are now Advisors, Bodyguards are gone.

Don't see them removing HQ choices. And bodyguards work extremely well both fluff and mechanically with look out sir. They could even expand them to allow bodyguards to accept but not issue challenges.


Only Cadian named characters in this document.

There are only 4 Cadian Characters- Creed, Kell, Pask, and Bastonne. They aren't going to remove a majority of special characters from the book- Alrahem, Chenkov, Marbo, Harker, Straken, Mork


Salamander is in as transport for CCS/PCS, open-topped Chimera with Autocannon, transports 6.

On one hand "GW is not going to poach FW units!" On the other, IIRC, Salamanders are older than FW, they would fit the role as a fast command squad transport, and unless they drastically redesign the Hydra, the Salamander is the best option to make a combi-kit with the Griffon.


Engineeers are Elite now (but 1-3 per slot), can buff squads in the vicinity (think Force Field and such).
Priests must join a squad and won’t take HQ slots.

These I can see. Techpriest getting some cool wargear would mean they actually get fielded. Priests being a squad attachment like commissars would be simple mechanically.


Veterans, get some lose some“. Size 5-10, can take 1 heavy wepaon or 1 special weapon per 5 soldiers. Bastogne is gone but every Veteran Sarge can give orders now. Can still take shotguns and get option to take pistol & CCW. New Veteran ability allows charging out of transport.

I can see most of this happening. Don't see Bastonne going away, especially if the codex is Cadian characters only. Assault out of transport seems possible, but Eldar players would cry, and it would probably make more sense for Stormtroopers.


Special Weapon and Heavy Weapon Squads are now 10 men each.

If Vet squads are going to 5-10 with 1 weapon per five, I could see special weapons also being 5-10 with 2 special weapons per 5. Heavy weapons though, I don't see going from 6 models/3 guns to 10 men. No way to do it cleanly kit wise, as adding a troop sprue would give you 11 men, and the three pack box would make it more likely that heavy weapon squads go to 3-6 heavy weapons with crew.


Vendetta is gone, instead Valkyries can take the Vendettas-loadout for +45 points.

Makes sense rules-wise. And drop the armor to 11/11/10, and it is far more balanced.


Only one entry for Sentinels, no armor upgrade, closed cabin has no game effect but is just cosmetical.

Possible. Cadian and Armageddon pattern were just cosmetic before.


Thunderer/Destroyer is in, Thunderer is a cheap Demolisher with nothing but a hull-mounted Demolisher cannon. Destroyer is a dedicated tank hunter with a laser-lance weapon. Have a, hull-down“ rule that makes them extremely hard to kill if in cover, seem to be area-control units.

Don't see it happening. GW already needs to make 2-3 plastic tank kits just to cover units already in the codex (Hydra, Griffon, Colossus, Medusa, probably as Hydra/new AA tank, Griffon/Salamander, Basilisk/Medusa/Colossus) before they start adding more tanks. And Thunderer would compete with the Demolisher, being basically an IG version of the Vindicator, and the Destroyer, while cool, would compete with the already little used Vanquisher.


There was talk about a new Cadian Veteran plastic set, 5 miniatures with all options.
I can see it, but being guard, more likely 10 models with options for $40


Heavy Weapon Squad will be repacked to include one sprue of standard Cadian infantry.

So an 11 models box?


Special Weapon Squads might get their own box with a new special weapon sprue (which is also used for Veteran box).

GW tends to do infantry as single larger unique sprues now, rather that duplicates of the same smaller sprue- see the new Tac Squad for one. And Special weapon squads would be a waste of a box when all it would take is for a player to buy a infantry squad and a vet squad and borrow weapons from the vet squad- more sales for less different kits.

Ghost42
02-09-2013, 20:02
I just want plastic Storm Troopers and better rules for them :)

TheBearminator
02-09-2013, 20:26
I actually find a lot of these rumours believable.

Even though I'd be sad to change special weapons for heavy weapons on my veterans it seems likely to happen cause their 6-7 plasma shots at half range is a bit overkill. And it would also distinguish them from the Stormtroopers who's got no access to heavy weapons. Orders (like a choice of two or three) would also be a good way to accentuate their higher field experience.

But the salamander, a third transport option (counting the valkyrie and vendetta as one), when they recently only had one? And with tank options growing exponentially already?

Really curious about how they're gonna fix the Sentinels. A compromise perhaps, armour 11, open topped, keep all special rules?

Hawkkf
02-09-2013, 23:52
There is one major problem with trying to figure out what new plastic kits IG will get. The motivating factors for GW are making sure that every option in the codex has a kit and that they sell. With IG all of the vehicle kits discussed already exist via forgeworld. Therefore, there is no rush to beat out third party infringments. That leaves only making what models they think will sell. GW's logic on what will sell is pretty hit-or-miss so we really can't make strong assumptions here.

I do expect that there will be at least 1 completely new kit probably with a dual build. This is the only way they can be certain IG players with access to FW will have something new to buy. So far only the one rumor about the epic model seems to meet this idealogy and thier penchant for using models from ages past.

Repacking HW and SW squads is plausible as repacks dont count aganst kit allowance and generally come with a comparable increase in price to keep profits rolling. Even though they may get rules for working in 10 man squads, I cant see GW using shelf space for non-unique kits. If SW and HW squds each got access to weapons other squads did not, then it would justify seperate kits, but they would not be repacks. At some point I would expect that Infantry, HW, SW, and Command kits will get made modular (and making standardized regiment models possible), but I don't expect them with the new codex. This line of reasoning I would love to be wrong about.

MajorWesJanson
03-09-2013, 01:37
Really curious about how they're gonna fix the Sentinels. A compromise perhaps, armour 11, open topped, keep all special rules?

Honestly, give the Sentinels smoke and searchlight for free, keep the rest of the costs the same. Maybe bring back the chainsaw option. The problem isn't with the pricing, but the competition for the slot.

Olja
03-09-2013, 01:41
IG assaulting out of a chimera and into close combat would be the equivalent of throwing raw eggs against a brick wall. Players may gripe about it until they see the folly. :evilgrin:

The Sentinels rumor really bothers me. :( It's too weak at armor 10 to be a decent unit. Standard bolter fire will glance one to death. Armor 12 works out real nice and gives the unit some durability.

Ten man Heavy Weapon and Special Weapon squads would make these more do able. Right now, they just get shot apart too easily.

MajorWesJanson
03-09-2013, 01:46
IG assaulting out of a chimera and into close combat would be the equivalent of throwing raw eggs against a brick wall. Players may gripe about it until they see the folly. :evilgrin:

The Sentinels rumor really bothers me. :( It's too weak at armor 10 to be a decent unit. Standard bolter fire will glance one to death. Armor 12 works out real nice and gives the unit some durability.

Ten man Heavy Weapon and Special Weapon squads would make these more do able. Right now, they just get shot apart too easily.

Armor 10 doesn't really stop killa kans or landspeeders. And 12 is honestly too high. At most, 11/10/10 like a piranha.

Heafstaag
03-09-2013, 01:57
Any cavalry rumors floating about?

Theocracity
03-09-2013, 03:30
There are only 4 Cadian Characters- Creed, Kell, Pask, and Bastonne. They aren't going to remove a majority of special characters from the book- Alrahem, Chenkov, Marbo, Harker, Straken, Mork

Especially since a bunch of those - Straken, Harker, Alrahem, Nork - have models available. Straken and Harker got new ones very recently, even.

I agree with most of your points, and added all up they make these rumors seem very unlikely to me.

Brotheroracle
03-09-2013, 04:54
A plastic Thunderer/Destroyer kit would be too cool- so that won't happen. I really would like another Artillery kit and I would guess out of anything that is something we will see.

CrimsonFury
03-09-2013, 04:54
Armor 10 doesn't really stop killa kans or landspeeders. And 12 is honestly too high. At most, 11/10/10 like a piranha.

Killa Kans have armour 11. Landspeeders have mobility and jink saves to keep them alive....

TheBearminator
03-09-2013, 09:30
Question regarding playtest rules:

Are these always written as a preliminary codex? I mean are all units included that they (at the moment) intend to include in the final codex? Can't they start playtesting before all independent characters rules are written?

stevegill
03-09-2013, 10:15
Salamander is in as transport for CCS/PCS, open-topped Chimera with Autocannon, transports 6.

Why would a Chimera hold less troops when you simply remove the roof?

Bloodknight
03-09-2013, 10:20
Because of the huge autocannon in the back?

MagicHat
03-09-2013, 10:35
IG assaulting out of a chimera and into close combat would be the equivalent of throwing raw eggs against a brick wall. Players may gripe about it until they see the folly. :evilgrin:

Could be fun if Demolition doctrine remains. Get over here carnifex, I will punch your face with a meltabomb!

stevegill
03-09-2013, 11:06
Because of the huge autocannon in the back?

Possibly if the autocannon has a mount in the middle of the compartment - I was visualising it as mounted over the driver area

Avian
03-09-2013, 11:24
Question regarding playtest rules:

Are these always written as a preliminary codex? I mean are all units included that they (at the moment) intend to include in the final codex? Can't they start playtesting before all independent characters rules are written?
Models are decided on first and only once their design is locked down does play testing begin. Thus everything in the play test rules will get a model.

It should also be noted that whenever a rumour has claimed to be from play testing, it has turned out to be junk, with the exception of a Dark Elf list we got back in 2000. That is some years ago now.

Son of Morkai
03-09-2013, 11:40
Why would a Chimera hold less troops when you simply remove the roof?

The Salamander has a huge oversized engine and lots of communications equipment. Those take up the bulk of the space.

Bigglesworth
03-09-2013, 13:08
The compartment is higher above the ground like the basilisk, so less space there too.


I thought it would be obvious just looking at the current FW salamanders why any transport space would be less.

stevegill
03-09-2013, 13:27
The compartment is higher above the ground like the basilisk, so less space there too.


I thought it would be obvious just looking at the current FW salamanders why any transport space would be less.

Oh, I know why it would be so on the FW ones - I was just running with the phrase "open-topped Chimera with Autocannon, transports 6". Hoping for more of a difference for the Salamander / Griffon body as there's place in the range for a smaller utility vehicle.

TheBearminator
03-09-2013, 14:30
Hoping for more of a difference for the Salamander / Griffon body as there's place in the range for a smaller utility vehicle.

Jeeps! Jeeps! Or some other atv on wheels. If they really need more vehicles. :)

But that is the thing. The post flyer trend seems to be that every army gets something really massive. With that in mind it sounds more likely that the Baneblade would get included now than the last time we heard rumours about it. Still, I think they've model is just to big. And from what I've heard the Macharius ain't smaller (besides GW would never plasticize two IG tanks in that size, it doesn't make sense). Are there anything at all between the tiny GW tanks and Baneblade class?

Brotheroracle
03-09-2013, 15:29
Superheavy units are not balanced for standard 40k. The baneblade's main gun uses a larger blast template then normal ordinance.

rockryan
03-09-2013, 16:03
if these rumors are correct means that veterans will be worse now, only will be able to have two special weapons, it sucks, all my army is veteran... :c





Think of the new kits:

Artillery Kit: medusa, colosus and basilisk

Kit anti air / hydra: hydra, and... some other more, which can be? I have no idea

Kit griphon / salamander: only one problem, belong to different types, one is for transport or fast attack and the other is heavy support anot, Games Workshop has never sold a vehicle that is of different types.

Vulture? they have done half of the pieces ...


I personally want to see improved elite units, it is a pity that we have no one that is good

Also would be great to see improvements in Centinels, horsies and Hellhound family, I'm sick of so many Vendettas, it's like instead of fast attack we only had Vendettas

Gilfred The Iron Knight
03-09-2013, 17:17
Are there anything at all between the tiny GW tanks and Baneblade class?

Macharius, Malcador, Valdor, Minotaur,Crassus and Praetor. They are super heavies with 6 hull points

Chem-Dog
03-09-2013, 18:38
Faeit Rumours post

Guh, I hope they're fake or heavily in the works because as it is the HQ one alone entirely bones my renegade army which uses dual Psykers. I can believe the Veteran changes (it's just about one of the commonest complaints I hear/read levelled at veterans) but squads of 5 models for a troops choice in a Guard army?!


That wouldn't even be possile, as apparently all non-Cadian characters would be disappearing,

To be fair, the post does carry the qualifier that only Cadian officer are detailed in that document.

Bigglesworth
03-09-2013, 19:49
This chart shows the relative sizes of imperial guard tanks (though not the width of course).

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/IA_008_009_Field_rec.jpg


Malcador, or Malcador chassis vehicles are as long as a Macharius, but not as wide by a long way.


Though it does not make much sense for GW to copy any of the FW kits at this point.



This picture shows the relative size between Malcador variants and Leman Russ tanks.
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2013/6/30/511954-Death%20Korps%20of%20Krieg,%20Tank,%20Weathered.JP G



And this one shows how much smaller a Macharius is compared to a Baneblade

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33140&stc=1&d=1200964964

TheBearminator
03-09-2013, 22:06
And this one shows how much smaller a Macharius is compared to a Baneblade

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33140&stc=1&d=1200964964

Wow! Thanks guys. The last picture was a good comparison. Have never seen the Macharius side by side with a Baneblade. The difference seems to be bigger than I thought.

Here is the Mortian compared to a Russ. Personally I think it's exactly the size and proportions the Russ family should be, but if we now get anything really heavy I hope it will be no smaller than this.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/04/yrejydut.jpg

MajorWesJanson
03-09-2013, 23:07
Kit griphon / salamander: only one problem, belong to different types, one is for transport or fast attack and the other is heavy support anot, Games Workshop has never sold a vehicle that is of different types.


Land Raider- Dedicated Transport/Heavy Support.
Grey Knight PA troops- Elite, Troops, FA, HS
Grey Knights Terminators- Elite, Troops
Storm Raven- FA, HS depending on the book (I want to see it move to HS in the next GK book and see GK get jetbikes)
Ravenwing Command- HQ, Elite
Deathwing Knights- HQ, Elite.
Tyranid Warriors- HQ, Troops
Tervigon/Tyrannofex- HQ, Troops, HS
Trygon- HQ, HS
Guard Command Squad- HQ, Troops
SoB Immolater- Dedicated Transport, HS

Bigglesworth
03-09-2013, 23:37
Land Raider- Dedicated Transport/Heavy Support.
Grey Knight PA troops- Elite, Troops, FA, HS
Grey Knights Terminators- Elite, Troops
Storm Raven- FA, HS depending on the book (I want to see it move to HS in the next GK book and see GK get jetbikes)
Ravenwing Command- HQ, Elite
Deathwing Knights- HQ, Elite.
Tyranid Warriors- HQ, Troops
Tervigon/Tyrannofex- HQ, Troops, HS
Trygon- HQ, HS
Guard Command Squad- HQ, Troops
SoB Immolater- Dedicated Transport, HS


But apart from that what have duel kits ever done for us? ;)

HelaineLarkin
03-09-2013, 23:54
Land Raider- Dedicated Transport/Heavy Support.
Grey Knight PA troops- Elite, Troops, FA, HS
Grey Knights Terminators- Elite, Troops
Storm Raven- FA, HS depending on the book (I want to see it move to HS in the next GK book and see GK get jetbikes)
Ravenwing Command- HQ, Elite
Deathwing Knights- HQ, Elite.
Tyranid Warriors- HQ, Troops
Tervigon/Tyrannofex- HQ, Troops, HS
Trygon- HQ, HS
Guard Command Squad- HQ, Troops
SoB Immolater- Dedicated Transport, HS

You forgot a one that is transport/heavy support Necron - Ghost Ark / Doomsday Ark and that one costs the price of a heavy support vehicle.

MajorWesJanson
04-09-2013, 03:28
You forgot a one that is transport/heavy support Necron - Ghost Ark / Doomsday Ark and that one costs the price of a heavy support vehicle.

And I guess the Catacomb Barge/ Annihilation Barge also counts.

The Dude
04-09-2013, 03:34
These rumours lost me at "Only Cadian named characters in this document"

Well, probably more like the "supposed playtesting document" bit.

Or maybe it was "anonymous source on Faeit 212"

;)

Seriously though, there's no way they'd make it Cadian only, even with possible Supplements. We are much more likely to see all Regiment's characters available with any possible supplements adding tactical changes to the way the armies fight (New orders / Warlord traits).

MajorWesJanson
04-09-2013, 04:08
Could we get the autofilter to change all instances of the phrase "anonymous source on/at Faeit 212" to "Faeit 212, the source of all that is true and reliable :shifty: "

The Dude
04-09-2013, 05:13
Could we get the autofilter to change all instances of the phrase "anonymous source on/at Faeit 212" to "Faeit 212, the source of all that is true and reliable :shifty: "

That's not how the swear filter works ;)

baphomael
04-09-2013, 12:05
Possibly if the autocannon has a mount in the middle of the compartment - I was visualising it as mounted over the driver area

Look at the Salamander model. Like that.

Theocracity
04-09-2013, 14:24
So here's a thought to chew on.

We all know that GW wants to put out models for as many of the units in the codex as it can, due to the Chapterhouse affair. If you note, this has so far also included distinctly modeled differences for units that are in most ways similar. Chaos Marines got distinctly modeled Chosen, for example (both in the box set and as a plastic clampack).

What does this mean for Guard? Well, what kind of distinctly modeled differences are included in the Guardsmen kits to distinguish between Guardsmen, Veterans, Conscripts and Penal Legionnaires? Not much, honestly.

How might GW resolve this problem going forward? Well, what if they utilize their other regiments? Steel Legion makes for pretty good Veterans, Valhallans make for good Conscripts, and if you refluff Penal Legionnaires as close-combat oriented Commandos (with the fluff note that sometimes they're bomb-collar criminals) you could reuse Catachans in a new role.

Model wise there's a few ways they could handle this. A new plastic dual kit of Steel Legion and Valhallans could work (with shared greatcoat legs and backs and regiment specific plug-in chest pieces and heads). The lazier / no plastic budget option is to release the old regiments in Finecast. Or they could release new Finecast or single-sprue models for those options that legally cover their modeled requirements without doing much to change their range. Or they could have decided there's no problem and not do any of this.

Note that I'm not saying Veterans would have to be Steel Legion models, or that you couldn't build a complete regiment using that kit - just that GW calling them Veterans would fill their legal requirement of offering a specifically modeled option for it. You could still use Cadians etc.

Bloodknight
04-09-2013, 14:34
I think mixing the armies doesn't work. They did it in 2nd edition, but aesthetically, it's always been a downer. I used to have practically every regiment that had minis present in my army and at some point I ditched them all for more Mordians because it just looked better on the table.

Theocracity
04-09-2013, 14:57
I think mixing the armies doesn't work. They did it in 2nd edition, but aesthetically, it's always been a downer. I used to have practically every regiment that had minis present in my army and at some point I ditched them all for more Mordians because it just looked better on the table.

That was the point of my last paragraph. If GW went this route, it would be primarily to cover their 'all units have modeled options' requirement without having to recut existing kits or cut options out of the codex. It could have the side benefit of providing plastic options for those other armies to convert with. I don't think mixing the regiments would be very common even with this design.

Thomson
04-09-2013, 22:48
I can believe the Veteran changes (it's just about one of the commonest complaints I hear/read levelled at veterans)
Well... you can get more and tougher fire power with a DA bike squad for the same points... (2 melta + 1 multi melta for 155 pts). So I don't see the problem with the three special weapons in a veteran squad.

Chimeras are easily dispatched and as soon as the guys are out of their transport they die with one well placed flamer template... however if the veteran seargant gets the option to let their weapons fire synchronized or ignore cover, that would be an other matter...