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View Full Version : Vanguard vets, any good?



Ratbeast
08-09-2013, 07:51
While reading threw the new book I was hoping vanguard vets would be good, models are great, but rules wise they seem expensive once kitted out with lighting claws etc why take them if you don't upgrade them, go for cheaper assault troop option if you want bolt pistol and close combat weapon, and compared to sternguard they seem sub par

what is warseers thoughts?

Oberon
08-09-2013, 08:09
5 Vanguards with veteran sergeant costs 15 points more than 5 assault marines with veteran sergeant. Their weapon options cost the same (for comparison, only sergeant will take them), I don't think heroic intervention is any good as a special rule (nice if you need it, but I wouldn't take it if it was optional), but A2 for regular troopers is nice. Also, vanguards are an elite choice while assault marines are fast attack. Elites never score or give bonus VPs for the enemy, while fast attack units do both in that one mission out of six. Which slot do you have more competition in? Do you have to take your assault marines from elites because you want to take 3 more units from fast? Or vice versa from elites.

Vanguards do have better equipment available, but those cost points that will increase the difference between the two.

If you want a serious CC unit with jump packs or a larger than 5 or 6 man unit in a land raider/stormraven (instead of terminators) and don't care about points, vanguards will deliver for a somewhat lower price than before.

I'd play BA if I wanted to play with assault marines, allies ftw. Librarian, sanguinary priest(s), 2x10 assault marines=almost 700 points of troop-assault marines with FNP and furious charge.

Camman1984
08-09-2013, 08:16
They just never seem survivable enough to me, especially when you can potentially be spending 50 odd points per model. I would take honour guard as my vanguard vet alternative if i want a blender unit. Only an extra few points for a 2+ and power weapon included.

MasterSplinter
08-09-2013, 08:19
I dont really know yet... i just got back into wh40k and had a few games with the now old space marine codex and their main attraction for me was the possibility to charge right after deep strike. Now that its gone i dont know if they are viable. One has to see.
Good thing is that they are no longer fast attack, so you can have a unit of jump packs if your fast attack is full (which was always a problem in my last games.)
Elite-wise i guess sternguard is mandatory for me, so ive got 2 slots left to think about. Generally speaking one has to look if it fits in your whole army-style.

Endobai
08-09-2013, 08:27
They are considerably more useful when collecting a chapter with RG or Raven Guard descendant background.
Do not really benefit much from other chapter traits - though WS hit and run, Iron Hand 6+ FnP and Ultramarine one use charge distance re-roll aren't that bad.

It depends what do you want from this unit and what different choices are you going to take, but in some cases they are better depending on the chapter you are collecting.

Freman Bloodglaive
08-09-2013, 08:46
A bunch of power axes is probably the cheapest effective way to run them.

mdauben
13-09-2013, 17:06
A bunch of power axes is probably the cheapest effective way to run them.
I've been out of the game for a while now, but I'm trying to get back up to speed on the current rules and tactics. My SM are painted up as Raven Guard and I've just picked up a couple boxes of the new Vanguard to paint up for my forces. With no practical experience with the current 6 ed rules or the new SM codex, I'm wondering what the current feelings are about equipping Vanguard? Is all power axes the way to go? All lightning claws? Or a mix of the two?

Akwikone
13-09-2013, 18:19
A bunch of power axes is probably the cheapest effective way to run them.


I'm not sold on Power axes, really. Most units that have a 2+ save have weapons that ignore your armor anyway and you'd basically be having the unit sacrifice itself to kill the other unit. I'd rather go Maul/Sword and have them pick and choose their target a bit more with Jet packs. 4 attacks on the Charge, Plus Hammer of Wrath(that re-rolls to wound with Raven Guard) is pretty nasty and will likely take out a lot of units through weight of numbers. Also, can everyone in the unit still take Melta-Bombs? If so, they can hunt Monstrous Creatures/Vehicles pretty well.

theJ
13-09-2013, 18:39
They look pretty solid to me... 19pts each for space marine veterans with jumppacks and basic CC-kit, plus a bunch of neat options. What's not to love?

I suppose the price can leap up quite drastically if you kit 'em all out fully, but why would you? A couple power weapons of choice, maybe a storm shield or two to eat AP1/2/3 shots and you'll be good to go.

Not saying they're the second coming of christ or anything, but they do seem more than decent :)

logan054
13-09-2013, 19:55
You have to pay for the jumps packs so they come in a little more than 19, I have been looking at them because I really like the new models and trying to decide if they are really worth the extra points, I think I made a unit of 10 that comes up to 300pts, it didn't have that many power weapons either (but I think the power fist bloats the cost heavily).

I'm not sold on power axes either, maybe a couple but generally I think power swords are the way to go, the relic blade on the sergeant is also very tempting.

They are a lot better than they use to be, they do get expensive fast and if you not taking the power weapons are they really worth taking over assault marines, maybe on foot in a Iron hands Redeemer :)

zero88
13-09-2013, 20:00
I think 2 or 3 Power Swords/Axes in a squad of 10 is optimal. Another advantage is you can put them on your regular marines so they can't be challenged by a Daemon Prince or Warboss (I swear, challenges are the stupidest rule to hit 40k in the past 4 editions) ..besides that I would run them regular; like it's been said 4 attacks on the charge plus HoW makes for a LOT of wounds.

logan054
13-09-2013, 20:05
With a chaplain ;)

Ironbone
13-09-2013, 21:04
Vanguards are not bad, but suffer from one large drawback.

The are in elites. Fast Attack IMHO fit them way better.

And elites in SM tend to be very crowded. Dreds, terminators, sterguards, legion, they all came from elites, so most armies simply wont have unused elite slots to use vanguards.

Bugaboo
13-09-2013, 21:10
Vanguards. Chosen mrk 2. Because the internet says so.

Endobai
13-09-2013, 21:19
I'll be fielding one, smallish unit of them for Raven Guard/Raptor force.
In this army one set of lightning claws is a must so it will be there + 2x Storm Shield & something else for a 5 Astartes unit.

Not a big deal, but their interesting advantage is the fact they create another source of possible, fast moving danger even in limited numbers. Even the silly, little fact that some models can be equipped with melta bombs without the need to arm the entire squad is worth considering.


Vanguards are not bad, but suffer from one large drawback.

The are in elites. Fast Attack IMHO fit them way better.

And elites in SM tend to be very crowded. Dreds, terminators, sterguards, legion, they all came from elites, so most armies simply wont have unused elite slots to use vanguards.

Elites tend to be overcrowded everywhere.

Besides what is a disadvantage to some is an advantage to others - Vanguards are perfectly where they should be for Raven Guard and, say White Scars.

Retrospectus
14-09-2013, 00:29
I put a powerfist, lightning claw, power sword and axe on them, plus 5 meatshields and jump packs. I use them as counter assault and escort for my beatstick chapter master. not really competetive but they look real cool

Losing Command
14-09-2013, 04:17
I have been considering to field a unit with powerswords to jump from scoring unit to scoring unit and slice them to ribbons. They will need some LoS blocking things along the way to avoid being shot at (Rhino's ftw) and have to stay clear of other dedicated assault units, but if you can pull that off they'll be a terror to tactical squads for example.
But they certainly aren't the point-at-things-and-watch-it-die unit Assault terminators are :D

ehlijen
14-09-2013, 04:45
They just never seem survivable enough to me, especially when you can potentially be spending 50 odd points per model. I would take honour guard as my vanguard vet alternative if i want a blender unit. Only an extra few points for a 2+ and power weapon included.

But no option for a jump pack.

The trick is to not make them all cost 50 points. At most half should have weapons upgrades and only take shields if you actually plan on using them against things power armour is normally scared off. At least half the squad should be unupgraded mooks so that when the enemy shoots your super killy unit (and they will) and kills some before they get to swing (they will), you don't lose too much stuff you paid for.