PDA

View Full Version : 2 Space marine questions



Retrospectus
11-09-2013, 00:11
Is it worthwhile equipping tactical sergeants with power fists?

Would terminator arms look weird on a power armour body? E.G. If I gave my captain a thunder hammer and shield from a terminator set would it look too big? ( I don't mind if it's a little bigger, might look cool as reinforced armour to handle the strain)

Voss
11-09-2013, 00:17
Is it worthwhile equipping tactical sergeants with power fists?
Normal Sergeant or Veteran Sergeant? Because the former is a definite no. The latter is probably no, but sometimes maybe under certain circumstances if you have a definite use for it. Generally it is too much for too little return. Especially since just sticking to a normal sergeant and sticking with a meltabomb for sudden vehicle or MC emergencies is 500% or 700% more efficient.



Would terminator arms look weird on a power armour body? E.G. If I gave my captain a thunder hammer and shield from a terminator set would it look too big? ( I don't mind if it's a little bigger, might look cool as reinforced armour to handle the strain)
Yes, weird. Those arms don't match up well at all to the power armor torsos.

Friedrich von Offenbach
11-09-2013, 01:27
I like power fists on veteran searg rants as it gives the squad just a bit more power in close combat. However many people argue that a Tatical squad should be shooting rather than In close combat and that the power fist is an innessasry expense. The power fist is an insurance policy for close combat and its your choice if you want to pay for it or not.

The terminator arms are way to big for a normal Marine. You can try and cut off the thunder hammer and stick this on to a chainsword arm/hand (eg from the Tatical squad). it can look quite good if your modelling skills are good enough, but the termi arms and hands just look out of place on power armour.

ss_cherubael
11-09-2013, 01:39
I use them on my veteran sgts...but only because I play Crimson fists and it fits their overall background.

Suggestion for hammers and shields is to cut them at the wrist and swap hands with the PA guys

Nonalyth
11-09-2013, 03:29
I'd say no to powerfists. If your opponent has a character with an AP3 weapon, there's a good chance they'll challenge, in which case either you accept and your sergeant is cut to ribbons before he can attack, or you refuse and he can't attack anyway. Either way it's a waste of points.

The Marshel
11-09-2013, 08:28
powerfist can be very useful and make the unit more fun to play with imo, but thinking in a purely competitive mindset, powerfist are too expensive to be used effectively and efficiently on a veteran sergeant. If you're just out for casual games and/or play against a lot of armies that fear s8 ID in cc, it can be very nice to have, but in an all corners competitive list power fist really shouldn't be on veteran sergeants.

williamsond
11-09-2013, 09:37
I've always liked a good powerfist, they have saved my bacon on a number of occasions. once a sgt with PF managed to take the last wound off a blood thirster and consolidate on to an objective winning the game for me. as stated they are expensive and you will die 99 times out of 100 if a character attacks you, but for clearing unsupported power armoured troops off an objective they work well.

Dr Zoidberg
11-09-2013, 09:54
I run my Sergeants with PF, primarily for insurance. The trick is to try make sure your Tacs aren't engaging dedicated assault units in CC. The fist comes in handy if enemy vehicles or dreadnoughts get close. But if a dedicated assault unit is coming your way, you should be pulling back - the PF won't help you much against a dedicated assault unit. Like others have mentioned, you'll likely get shredded before you can use it.

unwanted
11-09-2013, 13:26
Efficicient, most likely not. I still run a couple of Power Fists on my Vet. Sergeants, but Again, I play Imperial Fists...

StraightSilver
11-09-2013, 13:32
The trick with Power Fists is all about placement when you charge.

He needs to be at the back of the squad so that he doesn't become locked or engaged until initiative step 1.

Once you go through the higher initiatives take casualties from the squad that will allow him to move into combat at Initiative step 1 and then he should survive.

However the only problem with that is challenges as has been stated, if another character with an AP3 wpn or better challenges him he's toast, and quite expensive toast too.

The way around this is to have another character in the unit that can accept the challenge, but I don't tend to attach that many characters to my tactical squads.

Retrospectus
11-09-2013, 16:01
Is it worth giving tactical marine sergeants any fancy combat weapons? note that my tactical squads will be supported by a plasma toting sternguard squad to intercept the nasties

StraightSilver
11-09-2013, 16:14
To be honest I prefer to keep tactical marines cheap and cheerful. The sergeant isn't really that much better than a standard marine and if you are in combat the other marines are merely ablative wounds for him.

As others have said tactical marines shine in the shooting phase and if you have enough squads popping out of rhinos or drop pods you can lay down a fair amount of concentrated fire.

Tactical Marines aren't bad in close combat, their armour means they can weather a fair bit of combat but to be honest they aren't really a dedicated assault unit.

Where they are good is against vehicles, but grenades are way cheaper than fancy cc wpns.

That doesn't mean you can't tool up your sergeants, but to be honest if you are assuming they will get into enough close combat to justify the upgrades (which are pricey) you might be better looking at assault marines or vanguard vets.

Reinholt
11-09-2013, 16:51
My thoughts, in order:

1 - Un-upgraded sergeants are a legitimate tactic if you are trying to spam bodies or save points.

2 - Combi-weapons can go on non-veteran sergeants just fine. Being a vet doesn't really add anything if you just want another melta shot, for instance.

3 - If you are going to take a close combat weapon, also make the sergeant a veteran, because the extra attack is always worth it. I don't favor the power fist for a few reasons: it's slow, and it's expensive. I'd rather just take a power weapon and a melta-bomb, and if you are dying for a bit more hitting power, just take a power axe. That will still kill anything a sergeant should be tangling with anyways, if he lives to hit with it. If he doesn't, you wasted less points on his glorious death.

4 - If you absolutely must have the ability to instant death T4 things, that's when you want the fist.

YourChapterMaster
11-09-2013, 20:18
Conventional wisdom seems to be no, I do use them though on a squad or 2. Most of the time if you get charged you are gonna lose hard if its tacs, but in My experience it seems to draw out combat a little bit longer punching 1 or 2 guys a turn and if lucky occasionally win again soft assault units. For challenges it seem to be the worst thing going due to no invo save, but if the charging squad isn't rocking ap3 or lower your chances are good. They are good against IC if you live thought combat..

Retrospectus
11-09-2013, 21:39
On a semi-related question (didn't think it was worth starting a new thread) I'm taking pedro kantor for the sternguard thing and seeing as he's not the hardiest of characters I wanted to give him a command squad to hang out with in a razorback. I'm giving them an apothecary (obviously) and three plasma gun guys. now here's my dilemma, I can't decide if I want a fourth plasma gun or upgrade the fifth guy to a champion and give him some gear. the idea being that he takes the heat off of pedro should they get caught in combat. Knowing my locals it's all but inevitable.

Dr.Clock
12-09-2013, 10:44
IMO, a command squad should likely not include 4 plasma, simply due to cost considerations and fragility.

Yes: FnP increases survivability, but when basically everyone is carrying an expensive gun like that, each loss is deeply felt. 5-man devs with 4 heavies have the same problem.

In certain circumstances, it might make sense to just set the comm. squad in the back to blaze away... but at that point you may as well use sternguard or devs.

Basically, if you are using a razorback, I'd be keeping any command squad cheap and cheerful - especially if it's a vehicle for Kantor. I'd probably take the champion to give you a shot at an intervention if you want Kantor smacking grunts. Other than that, you have to consider that you're probably NOT going to want to get out of the tank until the last minute, and are unlikely to have more than one round of effective shooting from that unit in a game.

For this reason, I'd consider flamers. They get you lots of hits, are cheap, and effective on overwatch. But then... I play Salamanders.

Basically - I'd keep plasma guns on the sternguard where they belong - guarding the back line while the burnt dudes run forward and cleanse enemy objectives.

On topic: I like power-axes. Also, the occasional power-maul because it's hilarious. I've mostly given up on power-fists due to the combination of unwieldy, specialist, and OTT price point. They should have been brought down to 15 points IMO, especially since a sergeant is only ever getting 3A max out it on the charge.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.