PDA

View Full Version : Need help with a new/old chaos god



CULCHAIN
12-09-2013, 03:26
I went through a lot of the sticky but could not find anything on this. I am thinking of a reimagining of the history of the gods so I could have my own chaos god. Call it my love of HP Lovecraft. "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear." That's why I think fear should be the most powerful.

Man I hate typing on a kindle.:mad:

Anyway, so here it goes, the God of fears name is Anu Nan'ka. This is a take on the Sumerian God Anu. Anu Nan'ka did not want to destroy man but wanted him to live in fear for it feed her. The big 3 were not as powerful and she kept them in check so they would not run amok and threaten mankind and her food source. So the big 3 joined their powers into the staff to imprison her. Then tzeentch had to break it so it would not give him more power then the others.( I know this is a change from the original reason. Any other ideas from regular background would be appreciated.) Any Nan'ka's power would continue to grow so this would require a unique trap. This trap was ingenious because it had a pressure valve to let out some of her power out if it grew beyond a certain point.:evilgrin:

The prison was so far back in the warp that random entities would feed off of that power keeping Anu from reaching out.

This is it for now, I will write more soon. Sorry for any grammar or thought issues any help/criticism appreciated.:)

Karhedron
12-09-2013, 12:08
Interesting idea. Fear is certainly a powerful emotion. I can imagine followers trying to spread fear through random acts of violence and terror. Messily assassinating high-profile targets just for kicks etc.

You don't even have to go tinkering with existing 40K-lore. I think it is well established that the Warp is big enough to support many additional deities. Whilst maybe not as all-encompassing as the Big-4, I can see the ideal having enough appeal to be worth it.

=Angel=
12-09-2013, 13:10
Fear of the dark! (iron maiden riffs )This sounds like a cool idea. The models could be based on the fantasy Wraiths and gamewise, roll to wound against the leadership rather than toughness- like the neural flayer

Rogue Star
12-09-2013, 13:46
I would just make "Fear" one of the lesser Chaos Gods/powers. There are literally dozens of them, GW merely chooses to focus on the greatest names.

MvS
12-09-2013, 15:46
I've frequently though the same - we need a god who encapulates, promotes, exudes and presides over everything from uneasiness, through creepiness, dread, alarm, fear, horror and terror. It's an excellent idea.

And the Warp is certainly big enough for him/her/it.

CULCHAIN
12-09-2013, 17:46
The leader of my CSM Lord Thracian is an ex EC who spent thousands of years fulfilling every whim in the warp. He then emerged into real space to find only 100 years had passed. So finding no more pleasures he searches the darkest reaches of the warp. There he finds Anu Nan'ka. Needless to say after so long imprisoned she is pissed and wants revenge. In Thracian she sees an opportunity for this.


Narrative
Lord Thracian took his ship into parts of the warp never explored. His lieutenant Lugal called over the vox "Lord Enlil has found a darkness in the warp." At the same time his head sorcerer Naram-Sin called through his internal vox "the power is unlike anything I have ever experienced. It is like being on the precipice of an abysmal horror that is trying to suck you in." Finding this place would have been impossible without Enlil. His navigator Enlil cost him a heavy price. But no price was to high for the reward. Thracian approached the observation deck. The warp was a multitude of colors whirling into vortices and eddies, things could be seen undescribable things. Tentacled abominations predatory things from primeval nightmare that would have driven a normal man insane and gibbering. But alas such things used to impress him but after millennia of seeking pleasure it was dull and lifeless.

In the middle of the color was a dark void seeming to stretch on forever. And then in the farthest recesses of the void he saw a pin prick of color. It grew and moved towards him and enveloped him. Thracian saw sound, tasted color and felt things he had never experienced enveloping him it seemed to last forever. Even with his astartes physiology he was reaching a breaking point. Then it was over the two bodyguards beside him were turned into piles of flopping tentacles, the guards at the door were moving unsure of themselves. Then for an instant he saw and tasted the color from the marines. From nowhere and everywhere a haunting undescribable voice echoed "Thracian"

CULCHAIN
12-09-2013, 23:38
What do you think would be good ways to represent them on the battlefield?

mr.hardrada
12-09-2013, 23:47
What do you think would be good ways to represent them on the battlefield? Possessed come to mind....but that's if you want to use the CSM codex.

CULCHAIN
13-09-2013, 00:32
Most definitely. I also have chaos daemons and imperial guard.

Leftenant Gashrog
21-09-2013, 13:40
I've frequently though the same - we need a god who encapulates, promotes, exudes and presides over everything from uneasiness, through creepiness, dread, alarm, fear, horror and terror. It's an excellent idea..

There already is, tho people tend to forget that aspect: Slaanesh. Slaanesh is god of passion. That's why Khorne hates Slaanesh: When a champion of Khorne disembowels someone the victims fear and anguish feeds Slaanesh just as the act of bloodshed feeds Khorne.

MvS
21-09-2013, 17:59
There already is, tho people tend to forget that aspect: Slaanesh. Slaanesh is god of passion. That's why Khorne hates Slaanesh: When a champion of Khorne disembowels someone the victims fear and anguish feeds Slaanesh just as the act of bloodshed feeds Khorne.

I think that's more a demonstration of where the description and interests of Gods cross over. Slaanesh, at his most basic, is the personification of pleasure, delight, ecstasy, satisfaction and the desire to 'feel'. Slaanesh isn't particular to fear at all, although He/She/It may appreciate the sensation like any other.

Similarly, it's anger, rage and feelings of bloodlust/red mist and the desire for violence that empower and personify Khorne at his most basic.

TheSaylesMan
22-09-2013, 05:24
I have a theory. Its completely unsubstantiated and without much in the way of evidence so more of a hypothesis. There will be a God of Fear in the future. That would be Ynnead. Slaanesh was already a god born of Eldar souls and their tempestuous emotions leaving an impact in the Warp. So why can't it happen again? The Eldar even aim for this to happen. Now what state of mind would best describe the Eldar psyche in these past 10,000 years since the Fall? They are afraid. They all fear Slaanesh and their eventual extinction. Craftworlders fear their own nature and the Eldar of the past. Exodites fear the same things but go even further to denounce their old ways by discarding most advanced technology. Dark Eldar have a lot to fear in their day to day lives. We know that a god is tinted by the circumstances of its birth because of what we know about Slaanesh. I think that Ynnead will not turn out how they hope it will and they'll have nobody to blame but themselves because of how they choose to live their lives.

Then again I also feel that Humanity will give birth to a God based upon the darker aspects of the Imperial Creed. A God of Domination. I also think that Gork/Mork is also a Chaos God in some fashion. So I may be a bit biased.

The bearded one
22-09-2013, 05:43
There already is, tho people tend to forget that aspect: Slaanesh. Slaanesh is god of passion. That's why Khorne hates Slaanesh: When a champion of Khorne disembowels someone the victims fear and anguish feeds Slaanesh just as the act of bloodshed feeds Khorne.


I think that's more a demonstration of where the description and interests of Gods cross over. Slaanesh, at his most basic, is the personification of pleasure, delight, ecstasy, satisfaction and the desire to 'feel'. Slaanesh isn't particular to fear at all, although He/She/It may appreciate the sensation like any other.

Similarly, it's anger, rage and feelings of bloodlust/red mist and the desire for violence that empower and personify Khorne at his most basic.

Slaanesh rather encapsulates excess, in all its forms. Mostly in relation to pleasure, but excess of other feelings and emotions seem to suit just as well, including pain. Excess is a "smaller" area of primal human emotion compared to the fields of the other gods, whose territories are somewhat more broader, all-encompassing and seem to come more easily to humans than excess and pleasure do, hence why Slaanesh's power and domain are the smallest. Of course paridoxally the 3 larger gods essentially have a spark of Slaanesh in them as they each embody excess of their own various primal emotion, so Slaanesh is eternally clawing at them in the back of their mind.

I'd rather say the territory of fear belongs to -or is a subset to- Nurgle, who embodies despair and hopelessnes. Fear is something that to me fits fairly well within that frame. Of course there are plenty of powerful warp entities, and practically all the daemons we've seen in the horus heresy series show us that not all daemonic entities are just the ones we know from the daemon codex' army entries. A god of fear can be an entity clawing its own specialised corner in the emotional domain of Nurgle, wether 'sanctioned' by Nurgle or not.

MvS
22-09-2013, 08:29
Slaanesh rather encapsulates excess, in all its forms.

I agree that this has been how Slaanesh is depicted for a few years now, but in terms of how the Chaos Gods were originally conceived as Warp Storms of emotions and souls eternally scarred by specific emotions, it isn't all that consistent.

Excess is not an emotion of a feeling. It is a value judgement, i.e.: this is the adequate amount of something and that is an excessive amount of something.

In an infinite or effectively infinite universe such measures are ultimately meaningless from a Gods' eye view - which is the most relevant view to us here. 'Excessiveness' to a human is nothing compared to 'excessiveness' to an Eldar, which in turn is nothing compared to excessiveness as judged by a daemon of Saanesh - in fact to Slaanesh there isn't really such a thing as excess (meaning 'too much' or 'more than required'), because his needs and desires are endless. There can never be 'too much'. To Slaanesh there's never enough in fact.

As you have indicated already, all the Chaos Gods are gods of 'excess', albeit in their own ways, but I think to a greater degree than you suggest. They all seek to promote to an endlessly escalating and accelerating degree all those emotions, experiences and thoughts that empower them. So although feelings of vague irritation adds something to Khorne he would much prefer every mortal to experience completely pure, blinding and absolute rage, because this would empower him more. Slaanesh is the same. Appreciating a pleasant country landscape would give Slaanesh something, but absolute physical and emotional ecstacy feeds Slaanesh all the more.

I mean, if we say that Slaanesh is excess, then he is also empowered by excessive misery, excessive anger, excessive optimism, excessive boredom and so on and on. But that isn't really his image in the Warhammer universes.

One of the more elegant ways of conceptualising the basic drives of most lifeforms, from the most basic to the more complex, is as pain minimisers and pleasure maximisers, although pain and pleasure in these contexts are quite broad (although that's appropriate when we're considering what forms and empowers a Chaos God I suppose).

All lifeforms attempt to satisfy needs, whether this is a conscious process or one that is simply hardwired into physical growth and response. Whether it is an protozoa scooting away from a temperature or acidity that might harm it (pain minimisation) or absorbing nutrition of whatever sort (pleasure maximisation), or the biological imperative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_imperative)to survive and procreate and the 'pleasurable' biological 'rewards' for doing so, right up to the vastly more complicated reasonings, conceptualisations, pursuits and avoidances of pleasure and/or avoidance of pain that humans (and Eldar) experience - for which we could gain inspiration from the Pleasure Principle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasure_principle_%28psychology%29), Bentham and Utilitarianism (http://www.slideshare.net/a.horsley/utilitarianism-4394265), and of course sadism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder) and masochism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masochistic_personality_disorder)as both 'disorders' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadism_and_masochism_as_medical_terms) and ways of life (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadomasochism).

All of which brings us on to why Slaanesh seems to promote as much pain as he does pleasure. That is because mortal existence is full of the potential for suffering and the possibility of misery, neither of which are particularly helpful to an entity comprised of pleasure and self-centred satisfaction. But then as we have seen from the links above, the things, needs and activities that can bring pleasure and satisfaction are very broad indeed because, even if a mortal creatures have certain pursuits and avoidances built into their biological hardwiring, this hardwiring can be reworked to give positive responses to things that would perhaps be unnecessary for simple biological survival and procreation - i.e.: the biological imperative.

I would imagine that Slaanesh's followers are required by their god to maxmise the possibility for pleasure reflexes in life, and so to do this very often their psychology, neurology and even souls often need to be tweaked. If the maximum and extreme pleasure needs to be derived from every possible sensation, then Slaanesh and/or his daemons and/or his prophets and cults would probably seek to alter mortal brain chemistry in order to 'rewire the machine' so that we are constantly predisposed to behave and feel in whatever whatever way best serves him. This could be achieved through simply creating physical circumstances / environment that makes us react in a way most pleasing to whichever god, or it could be achieved by the direct altering of the quanitites and timings of dopamine and serotonin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_basis_of_personality#Genetic_.26_Molecu lar_Correlations_to_Personality) that are released into our brains (http://www.psy.miami.edu/faculty/ccarver/documents/p06_serotonin_PR.pdf) and hormones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormones#Effects_of_hormones)throughout the rest of our bodies (tapping straight into the idea of the biological basis of pesonality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_basis_of_personality)), right the way up through to Chaos Sorcery to taint mortal 'souls' or even straight-out daemonic possession (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonic_possession) (or a combination of all of the preceding).


I'd rather say the territory of fear belongs to -or is a subset to- Nurgle

Yes, I tend to go down this route too, although seeing as all the Chaos Gods seem to have some crossover or other, the idea of a God of Terror, pure and simple, is a good one with internal consistency with how Chaos and the Warp are depicted as working.

Kolsveinn
24-09-2013, 10:24
I went through a lot of the sticky but could not find anything on this. I am thinking of a reimagining of the history of the gods so I could have my own chaos god. Call it my love of HP Lovecraft. "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear." That's why I think fear should be the most powerful.

Man I hate typing on a kindle.:mad:

Anyway, so here it goes, the God of fears name is Anu Nan'ka. This is a take on the Sumerian God Anu. Anu Nan'ka did not want to destroy man but wanted him to live in fear for it feed her. The big 3 were not as powerful and she kept them in check so they would not run amok and threaten mankind and her food source. So the big 3 joined their powers into the staff to imprison her. Then tzeentch had to break it so it would not give him more power then the others.( I know this is a change from the original reason. Any other ideas from regular background would be appreciated.) Any Nan'ka's power would continue to grow so this would require a unique trap. This trap was ingenious because it had a pressure valve to let out some of her power out if it grew beyond a certain point.:evilgrin:

The prison was so far back in the warp that random entities would feed off of that power keeping Anu from reaching out.

This is it for now, I will write more soon. Sorry for any grammar or thought issues any help/criticism appreciated.:)

Fear is a part of Nurgle's portfolio.

baphomael
24-09-2013, 11:14
Yea id echo what others have said, fear seems part of nurgles remit as the god of despair, powerlessness and impotent hopelessness.

Of course, each God's sphere of influence treads on the toes of the other God's - tzeentch is the god of vain hope, embodied in change. Yet all the other gods represent some form of change be it nurgle's entropy, khorne's butchery or slaanesh's quest for new experience.

Each of the gods of chaos embodies a little of its brothers because they are all aspects of a greater whole - Chaos. Indeed, some in universe choose to see chaos as a many faced singular force rather than a pantheon of distinct beings, which is (fittingly) both true and untrue. Chaos undivided is, to some, the dedication to a pantheon... to others it is the worship of a distinct divinity that manifests in various forms (in a similar sensr to how trinitarian doctrine holds that father, son, spirit are all one singular godhead).

jakejackjake
24-09-2013, 15:10
I think that's more a demonstration of where the description and interests of Gods cross over. Slaanesh, at his most basic, is the personification of pleasure, delight, ecstasy, satisfaction and the desire to 'feel'. Slaanesh isn't particular to fear at all, although He/She/It may appreciate the sensation like any other.

Similarly, it's anger, rage and feelings of bloodlust/red mist and the desire for violence that empower and personify Khorne at his most basic.

No it's not just pleasure but pain too. Not just joy but sorrow. You only explained one side of Slaanesh's aspect, and it's actually her "weaker" side that she uses mostly to entice people to her ways.

She isn't the God of excess. Excess is how you feed into her power. She isn't the just God of pleasure. She is also the God of vanity. The swordsman seeking perfection will most likely fall to Slaanesh. Slaanesh encompasses almost all emotions in some aspect. Her realm seems the least restricted of the four. You can not feed one of the four without also feeding she who thirsts. Fear does seem to fit with Nurgle though. I'd even say that fear is a form of hopelessness is someways.

MvS
24-09-2013, 17:58
Although Nurgle is certainly one of the most frightening of the Chaos Gods, I'm not convinced that fear is any more part of his 'portfolio' than, say, Khorne of Tzeentch.

Fear is an active and often energetic emotion. It is a fundamental part of our fight or flight mechanism. Fear tends to be a response to our desire to stay alive, to avoid or be free from suffering and distress in whatever senses, and even the unknown, unexpected or 'unusual'. Despair, hopelessness and nihilism are not active necessarily. They are an end point in their own rights - the bottom of a very painful fall. We can become despairing and hopeless without significant fear. We just need to feel betrayed or cheated or abandoned or beaten, defeated or worthless.

Fear and terror are part of a desire to survive while true hopelessness and despair are more like resigned and walking death.


No it's not just pleasure but pain too. Not just joy but sorrow. You only explained one side of Slaanesh's aspect, and it's actually her "weaker" side that she uses mostly to entice people to her ways.

Slaanesh encapsulates pain in the same way as sadomasochism encapulates pleasure and pain. The pain has become pleasureable, whether it is experienced for oneself or inflicted upon others its for the gratification that comes through its infliction. I explored this in much more detail in my previous post.

Larzarus
24-09-2013, 23:31
From a practical side the troops of the army would have to be afraid of their leaders in order to satisfy the god. An army that doesn't like standing next to one another might be awkward.

I can see the structure to be along the lines of a daemon prince leading/chasing a bunch of cultists into battle

CULCHAIN
25-09-2013, 20:36
I have to agree with MvS fear and despair are two different beasts. That is why it is called fight or flight not fight or sit on couch and eat bon bons.:D Also Lazarus, the troops do not have to be afraid of their leader but inspire fear in their intended victims to feed themselves and their leader.:evilgrin: