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Hudson Gameover
13-09-2013, 19:59
Fluff wise, do you think that any of the elf armies should have monstrous cav and why?

I like that high elves didnt get any. I think their army book works well and I'm glad they didnt ram in some beast that no ones ever heard (demigryphs).

I'd love to see wood elves riding great stags as monstrous cav. I cant see them being very good, a real glass cannon but I think it fits well.

Dark elves, I'm undecided.

ZigZagMan
13-09-2013, 20:13
Dark elves have monstrous cav, its just character only. With the exception of WOC noone has both MC and characters on MC.

PrehistoricUFO
13-09-2013, 20:41
I'd like to see Wood Elves get something.

Khorneguy
13-09-2013, 20:47
Dark elves have monstrous cav, its just character only. With the exception of WOC noone has both MC and characters on MC.

Which Monstrous Cavalry do we have?

SteveW
13-09-2013, 20:54
Dark elves have monstrous cav, its just character only. With the exception of WOC noone has both MC and characters on MC.

Brets have peg riding characters and knight units.

Drasanil
13-09-2013, 21:06
Dark elves have monstrous cav, its just character only. With the exception of WOC noone has both MC and characters on MC.

*Cough* Demigrpyhs and Empire Peg Heroes/Lords *Cough*

As for which elves should/could get monstrous cav if any, WE might fit and so could DE I remember when they came out in 6th GeeDubs essentially labelled them as Fantasy's 'monster army' would make sense for them to have some since they are in the business of using/breaking all sorts of creatures.

SimaoSegunda
13-09-2013, 21:19
I thought Warhawk Riders were monstrous cavalry?

Odin
13-09-2013, 22:03
I thought Warhawk Riders were monstrous cavalry?

Yup, flying monstrous cavalry.

I don't think it would be out of place for any of the elf armies, but I do think it's best if they don't all get it. Wood Elves are the army most in need of new stuff, particularly hard hitting stuff, so would seem the best candidate for non flying monstrous cav.

Voss
13-09-2013, 22:08
Fluff wise, do you think that any of the elf armies should have monstrous cav and why?

Sure. Is there any particular reason elves can't tame or enslave larger than normal critters? There certainly isn't anything special or interesting about monstrous cav at this point, and with single wound riders, they're not all that effective beyond MSU anyway. Pure MB units are actually better, unless they're really lacking in some fashion

Sotek
13-09-2013, 22:23
Wood elf great stag or unicorn cavalry. DE no and HE no

Kahadras
14-09-2013, 00:03
Wood Elves will get to keep their Warhawk riders but GW appear to have done an abrupt about face when it comes to monstrous cavalry which is a good thing in my book.

Kahadras

godswearhats
14-09-2013, 02:20
Wood Elves have Warhawk Riders as stated. Also any character on a Great Eagle, Great Stag or Unicorn.

I think that's enough to be honest. MC for wood elves just doesn't make a lot of sense to me beyond the warhawks. Now if characters could join Warhawk units I'd be very happy!

~gwh

Why
14-09-2013, 02:24
Somewhere on asrai.org someone brought up Dryads riding some sort of almost undead looking forest bears made up of intertwined branches. I think something like that would be very cool and fit in with the rest of the army very well.

SteveW
14-09-2013, 02:39
Somewhere on asrai.org someone brought up Dryads riding some sort of almost undead looking forest bears made up of intertwined branches. I think something like that would be very cool and fit in with the rest of the army very well.

That just sounds awesome.

Voss
14-09-2013, 02:59
Wood Elves will get to keep their Warhawk riders but GW appear to have done an abrupt about face when it comes to monstrous cavalry which is a good thing in my book.

I'm not sure what this 'about face' is. Can you explain?

godswearhats
14-09-2013, 03:01
Wood Elves have Warhawk Riders as stated. Also any character on a Great Eagle, Great Stag or Unicorn.

I think that's enough to be honest. MC for wood elves just doesn't make a lot of sense to me beyond the warhawks. Now if characters could join Warhawk units I'd be very happy!

~gwh

lbecks
14-09-2013, 03:37
All of them!

Kakapo42
14-09-2013, 05:31
Well Wood Elves already have monstrous cavalry in the form of Warhawk riders (which nearly everyone seems to forget are monstrous cavalry for some reason). I'd like them to keep Warhawk riders, and have them fill the MC niche. It'd be a very interesting take on the idea, as unlike the sledgehammers that MC in other races tends to be, they'd be more of a fast moving hit-and-run unit, zipping around the battlefield and making surgical strikes on key targets, rather than just rolling in and smashing things to bits.

Kahadras
14-09-2013, 05:55
I'm not sure what this 'about face' is. Can you explain?

GW seemed to realise how good MC were becoming (Mornfang, Demigryph and Skullcrushers for example). The latest couple of books have seen GW focus more on monsters than monsterous cavalry which is a good thing IMHO.

Kahadras

Lastavenger
14-09-2013, 08:15
I think that wood elves need any new unit and if done properly MC could fit them.

TheDungen
14-09-2013, 11:34
dark elves have monstrous cav, cold ones, or if those arent monstrous cav they ccould be upgraded to it. I don't think the dark elves should have any new unit types introduced. Wood elf wild riders should be on great stags.

High elves shouldn't have monstrous cavalry.

Ullis
14-09-2013, 13:32
I think that wood elves need any new unit and if done properly MC could fit them.

I would be very surprised if they did not get some kind of monstrous cavalry - they do, as you say, need a hard hitting unit.

Voss
14-09-2013, 13:34
dark elves have monstrous cav, cold ones, or if those arent monstrous cav they ccould be upgraded to it. I don't think the dark elves should have any new unit types introduced.
Cold one knights aren't monstrous cav, and there is absolutely no reason for them to be. They're horse sized. A bit more scary than a horse, but definitely a horse-equivalent.

theunwantedbeing
14-09-2013, 14:02
High elves
Nothing really fits, in any case they already have their book.
Drake riders would potentially fit, but making them merely MC seems a bit weak.

Dark Elves
They could easily have something added to allow them to have MC, extra large cold ones is the obvious one but it could easily be something else. Where they live is full of all manner of creatures that aren't in the book (wyverns, chimeara, etc) but those are larger single monsters rather than pegasus size things.
Cold ones shouldn't be monstrous cavalry, but they could do with being more on par with the high elf lions.

Wood Elves
Warhawk Riders already exist, a ground option could easily be added in the form of something like great stags or similar.
If any elf army is going to get them wood elves are the most likely option.

Nymie_the_Pooh
14-09-2013, 14:10
Story wise I think all of them could easily have options introduced for monstrous creatures. That doesn't mean they necessarily all should gameplay wise.

deathrain-commander
14-09-2013, 14:34
I think Wood Elves (who already have the Warhawk riders) would fit with having some sort of Stag or Bear Riders (Stag would be better, because they already have Stags). Dark Elves seem more like the type to tame big monsters, and those are psycho enough that you probably don't want to be riding them. I can see them having a big (not Hydra big, more like Rhinox sized) monsters being led into battle by Beastmasters, ala Rat Ogres. High Elves monsters seem a little too big to be Monstrous Cavalry, but as I recall the War of the Beard list had Dragon Princes riding Drakes which were Monstrous Cavalry sized.

Rakariel
14-09-2013, 15:35
Fluff wise Dark Elves could very well have MCav, having all the monster and beastmaster background. Do I think they should get any? I don`t honestly know. While fitting I also think not every army should have them. Also there is Cold One Knights which are already more monstrous than your typical cav. I think maybe making Cold Ones themselves a bit better (maybe one attack more like the Cold Ones Lizards got) would be enough however. Getting true MCav would only diminish the role CoKs have at the moment. I would rather like seeing DE being the monster heavy Elves with HE being Cav heavy and WE being therefore MCav/MInv heavy. For DEs I could see beastmasters with some MInv however, like RatOgre units.

I would find it fitting if Wood Elves would get some MCav. Great Stags or making Warhawk Riders better game wise would be a good direction imo.

Blinder
14-09-2013, 17:12
I would be very surprised if they did not get some kind of monstrous cavalry - they do, as you say, need a hard hitting unit.

Treekin seem to fill the "smash it to bits" unit niche for WE though, so I'd more expect that they get adjustments rather than a land-based MC unit being added... I'm somewhat wondering if they'll get a variant build as one of the "new things" for a release.

Azazyll
14-09-2013, 23:28
I also would love to see all the elves get monstrous cavalry. Dragon knights with actual dragons (or drakes or something), some nasty sea-serpent-riding corsairs, and what the WE already have, warhawks, and maybe giant stags too. I'm against a whole unit of unicorns though - kind of takes away from the magic.

Voss
15-09-2013, 01:29
Fluff wise Dark Elves could very well have MCav, having all the monster and beastmaster background. Do I think they should get any? I don`t honestly know. While fitting I also think not every army should have them. Also there is Cold One Knights which are already more monstrous than your typical cav. I think maybe making Cold Ones themselves a bit better (maybe one attack more like the Cold Ones Lizards got) would be enough however. Getting true MCav would only diminish the role CoKs have at the moment. I would rather like seeing DE being the monster heavy Elves with HE being Cav heavy and WE being therefore MCav/MInv heavy. For DEs I could see beastmasters with some MInv however, like RatOgre units.

Monstrous Beasts would make more sense in this context, I think. Beastmasters and all ;)

Though given the giant list of stuff the DE are apparently getting, such things aren't in the cards

Deris87
15-09-2013, 01:33
CLEARLY, High Elves should've gotten White Lions riding white lions.

Seriously though, I like the idea of Great Stag units for WE. Considering it's an incredibly old book liable to receive a substantial overhaul anyway, you could tweak Wild Riders to be mounted on Great Stags. It fits well with the more feral nature of the WE, and the fact that they're as much a force of nature now as a civilized race.

sulla
15-09-2013, 08:40
Story wise I think all of them could easily have options introduced for monstrous creatures. That doesn't mean they necessarily all should gameplay wise.I agree. Warhammer Elves, for various dubious reasons, reject technology. It wouldn't be a big surprise for them to use large beasts as a way of staying relevant in the warhammer world.

Rakariel
15-09-2013, 09:48
Monstrous Beasts would make more sense in this context, I think. Beastmasters and all ;)

Though given the giant list of stuff the DE are apparently getting, such things aren't in the cards

Nah I don`t think so neither. They are (apparently) getting enough already.

TheDungen
15-09-2013, 10:16
Cold one knights aren't monstrous cav, and there is absolutely no reason for them to be. They're horse sized. A bit more scary than a horse, but definitely a horse-equivalent.

I could see cold ones moved to MC and dark elves get some knights of anlec regular horse heavy cavalry. That's the best solution providing that gw feel they need to add MC otherwise I'd leave it be. What I mean is that I'd prefer no new species of creatures pulled out of their ass at this time.


I agree. Warhammer Elves, for various dubious reasons, reject technology. It wouldn't be a big surprise for them to use large beasts as a way of staying relevant in the warhammer world.

Only certain technologies, gunpowder steam and so on, their actual knowledge of physics seems to be quite high though, they can fly chariots and the eagle claw are actually quite complicated weapons.

Rakariel
15-09-2013, 10:52
I could see cold ones moved to MC and dark elves get some knights of anlec regular horse heavy cavalry.

The Cold Ones from the Lizard book werent moved to MCav neither, I hardly doubt they will do it here considering those Cold Ones are quite similar. I rather think they will get a second attack but thats about it. Considering the rumors we already have about the release, even if half of it is true I don`t see a place for another additional box tbh. Maybe good this way, not every army should have MCav, would make the armies too similar anyway.

Darnok
15-09-2013, 11:29
I think the relation to beasts (WE) and monsters (DE) allows for quite easy reasons why WE and DE could get monstrous cavalry. In my opinion, it would fit both armies. HE on the other hand... not so much. They have their noble horses, and special mounts for characters. But that's it, and I think it is good as it is.


their actual knowledge of physics seems to be quite high though, they can fly chariots

That has nothing to do with physics, and all with magic.

Astraeos
15-09-2013, 11:37
I think it's perfectly plausible for any of the Elf armies really. They each live in an area that has plenty of fantasy beasts, or the potential for such creatures. High Elves could easily have Drake Riders of Caledor someday (from what I've read in mythology, drakes are small wingless dragon like creatures with acidic blood), Dark Elves might have Beastmaster cavalry riding almost anything and Wood Elves could take Stag Knights.

Von Wibble
15-09-2013, 11:39
I think Wood Elves (who already have the Warhawk riders) would fit with having some sort of Stag or Bear Riders (Stag would be better, because they already have Stags). Dark Elves seem more like the type to tame big monsters, and those are psycho enough that you probably don't want to be riding them. I can see them having a big (not Hydra big, more like Rhinox sized) monsters being led into battle by Beastmasters, ala Rat Ogres. High Elves monsters seem a little too big to be Monstrous Cavalry, but as I recall the War of the Beard list had Dragon Princes riding Drakes which were Monstrous Cavalry sized.

Bear Riders just doesn't fit imo. Don't bears stand up when fighting to maw their foes? How would the rider stay on?

Stag or Unicorn riders otoh I can see happening. Warhawk riders would need serious buffing to fit the role in anything more than name.

Dark elves could get them I suppose but would actually need a new creature invented for this purpose.

Darnok - Arguably it is physics - sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic after all. Maybe those High Elf Mages just know a lot more science than they are given credit for.

That and their Eagles have big muscles.

Darnok
15-09-2013, 11:48
Darnok - Arguably it is physics - sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic after all. Maybe those High Elf Mages just know a lot more science than they are given credit for.

That and their Eagles have big muscles.

I should not have commented on it in the first place. :D

As I do not want to derail the thread any further, I'll just say that I disagree, and keep it at that.

Rakariel
15-09-2013, 11:55
Bear Riders just doesn't fit imo. Don't bears stand up when fighting to maw their foes? How would the rider stay on?

The rider is strapped to the belly of the bear. When the bear attacks the rider is in a vertical position to attack aswell. Only downside is that, well the rider IS on the downside when the bear is moving which could mean some extensive laundry time after battle :D

Von Wibble
15-09-2013, 12:05
That would put off virtually all elves surely!

Strongarm
15-09-2013, 12:44
I think fluff wise this concept would fit the wood elves and the dark elves,the high elves have enough toys!

Spiney Norman
15-09-2013, 14:18
GW seemed to realise how good MC were becoming (Mornfang, Demigryph and Skullcrushers for example). The latest couple of books have seen GW focus more on monsters than monsterous cavalry which is a good thing IMHO.

Kahadras

I wouldn't call it an 'about face' so much as a realisation that not all monstrous cavalry needs to be a can of whoop-ass encased in impenetrable armour. Lizardmen got a new monstrous cavalry unit that was much less of a threat to the meta-game than DGKs, SCs or MFC. Warhawks are fine, although they could do with something to justify their current points cost, as they're effectively just bow-armed Terradon riders without the rocks for 5pts more. I think an ethereal forest-spirity type MC could be interesting for wood elves, just as long as it doesn't turn into another DGK.

I don't think elf armies should be discounted from having MC on the basis of being elf armies (can't high elf characters ride eagles anyway?) but I'm not sure its really fits for high elves. Dark elves on the other hand have always been about riding all sorts of gribbly beasties, if they can have dragons, manticores and cold ones, why not something in between?

Wesser
18-09-2013, 08:43
CLEARLY, High Elves should've gotten White Lions riding white lions.

Seriously though, I like the idea of Great Stag units for WE. Considering it's an incredibly old book liable to receive a substantial overhaul anyway, you could tweak Wild Riders to be mounted on Great Stags. It fits well with the more feral nature of the WE, and the fact that they're as much a force of nature now as a civilized race.

Quite. Not to say that they would actually have to be MC, but it always felt weird to me that they were riding horses

xxRavenxx
18-09-2013, 10:01
I think that for all the elves, simply sorting out their flying cav, to have appropriate stats would be fine.

Big lumbering ground monsters don't suit elves.

Hawks, Eagles, etc. Suit elves fine.

Dark elves can just have... Dark warhawks? Or something equally tedious sounding.

Fear Ghoul
18-09-2013, 11:36
GW seemed to realise how good MC were becoming (Mornfang, Demigryph and Skullcrushers for example). The latest couple of books have seen GW focus more on monsters than monsterous cavalry which is a good thing IMHO.

Kahadras

This doesn't make any sense. Orcs and Goblins, Vampire Counts, High Elves, and Daemons of Chaos didn't get Monstrous Cavalry, but all armies have received one or more new large kits starting with the Arachnarok. The idea spread around the community that every army should expect some new Monstrous Cavalry is a patent falsehood, when it is blindingly obvious that Monsters are GW's big marketing thrust in 8th edition.

Kakapo42
18-09-2013, 13:16
Dark elves can just have... Dark warhawks? Or something equally tedious sounding.

You know thinking about it very quickly, I wonder if some sort of giant raven/crow riders might work for Dark Elves. That way all the Elves have a bird thing going on (as opposed to the bat thing of Vampire Counts and to a lesser extent the winged insect thing of Nurgle), but raptors can remain the domain of High and Wood Elves.

Captain Collius
18-09-2013, 14:01
This doesn't make any sense. Orcs and Goblins, Vampire Counts, High Elves, and Daemons of Chaos didn't get Monstrous Cavalry, but all armies have received one or more new large kits starting with the Arachnarok. The idea spread around the community that every army should expect some new Monstrous Cavalry is a patent falsehood, when it is blindingly obvious that Monsters are GW's big marketing thrust in 8th edition.

1. Doc do have Monstrous Cavalry, Vampires have flying MI and don need MC.

2. No one outside of Ogres should have expected monstrous cav.

3. If they get to WE fpr Wild riders on Stags that will be cool, BUt DE and He don't do this kinda stuff.

Fear Ghoul
18-09-2013, 14:33
1. Doc do have Monstrous Cavalry, Vampires have flying MI and don need MC.

Daemons of Chaos already had Monstrous Cavalry - they didn't receive it in their 8th edition release.

Vargheists and Crypt Horrors are Monstrous Infantry and thus besides the point.

What armies need and what they get are two very different things in the minds of a GW marketing executive.


BUt DE and He don't do this kinda stuff.

Spiney Norman
18-09-2013, 16:17
This doesn't make any sense. Orcs and Goblins, Vampire Counts, High Elves, and Daemons of Chaos didn't get Monstrous Cavalry, but all armies have received one or more new large kits starting with the Arachnarok. The idea spread around the community that every army should expect some new Monstrous Cavalry is a patent falsehood, when it is blindingly obvious that Monsters are GW's big marketing thrust in 8th edition.

Daemons were the first to get MC, in fact they got MC before there were rules for MC in the BRB, giving them another Mc unit wouldn't have made a great deal of sense. MC were a new unit type in the 8th edition rules, it was a fair assumption that a significant number of armies would get a Mc unit when their book was redone, otherwise why create the new troop type for 1-2 isolated units?

Not every army has to be the same, but the problem is that most players look at the most powerful units in the game; DGKs, skull crushers, mournefang cavalry and hope for something similar in their next book. I'm pretty sure every WH player can think up a MC concept that would fit perfectly in their army (HE players were talking about baby-dragon riders, Lizardmen fans were talking about baby-carnosaur riders etc), but fortunately warhammer has never been about giving every army the same thing. The studio will do its creative thing and come up with whatever concepts it wants to, whether they are in line with gamer expectations is another issue entirely.

Captain Collius
18-09-2013, 16:56
Daemons of Chaos already had Monstrous Cavalry - they didn't receive it in their 8th edition release.
Yeah they had it ergo not a good point.


Vargheists and Crypt Horrors are Monstrous Infantry and thus besides the point.
Not in my opinion thats two types of MI one of whom has flying mobility hence outside of the armor save everyone infers MC's have they are similar. Also as we well know 4+ and 3+ armor is far more common than one would expect on MC. Heck even mournfang starts at 4+. So Vargheists who yes have no save are worth discussing as a reason why VC's have no MC.


What armies need and what they get are two very different things in the minds of a GW marketing executive.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Darnok
19-09-2013, 03:43
Big lumbering ground monsters don't suit elves.

Agreed. But monsters on the ground don't need to be "lumbering". Just check the LM range for an agile monstrous mount. Something between that and the current (DE) Cold Ones would suit DE just fine.

sulla
19-09-2013, 18:31
Daemons of Chaos already had Monstrous Cavalry - they didn't receive it in their 8th edition release.

Vargheists and Crypt Horrors are Monstrous Infantry and thus besides the point.

What armies need and what they get are two very different things in the minds of a GW marketing executive.http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440045a&prodId=prod1940056a

Daemons have 2 monstrous cav units.

Regardless of that, Elves use magic and beasts instead of technology. Any monstrous cav could easily be justified just as any new monsters or magical creations could.

popisdead
26-09-2013, 17:17
Stag cavalry

Odin
27-09-2013, 11:51
Sure. Is there any particular reason elves can't tame or enslave larger than normal critters? There certainly isn't anything special or interesting about monstrous cav at this point, and with single wound riders, they're not all that effective beyond MSU anyway. Pure MB units are actually better, unless they're really lacking in some fashion

Why would single wound riders be an issue? You know they use the mount's W value if it's higher, don't you?