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Poseidal
14-09-2013, 23:01
I've noticed there's an increase in Eldar names that are basically Luke Nounverber; basically universally now, new characters will follow this format. I thought they are a bit hamfisted, and not as elegent as the simple names they had since the Craftworlds were introduced, such as Kelmon, Karhedron and so on. Even the more 'elfy' ones like Karadryel were ok.

But these days, almost all of them are NounVerbs, or sometimes NounNouns if you're lucky (Nightspear, I'm looking at you; Illic is fine though).

Actually, they are pre-Eldar names. Even Eldar pirates had cooler names, like Yriel, Xian or Myan.

When Eldar were 'Space Elves', they had names like Gaedhil Quickshadow, Iric Trueshot (I wonder if he was Illic's precursor...) and so on.

Now, Nounverbs aren't bad per-se, but I think the 'efly' sounding given name is a bit too much. For a start, I think it would be better if their surname is first, rather than the given name.

How much cooler is Nightspear Illic, Wildfire Elysia and so on than the other way around?

What do you think?

Drasanil
14-09-2013, 23:08
How much cooler is Nightspear Illic, Wildfire Elysia and so on than the other way around?

What do you think?

Noun-names are meh, that comes and go I think. As for your suggestion, it's weird and I don't like it. Noun-names are one thing, but fairly easy to gloss over and they tend to just melt into the background. Making them super-jarring like that just makes it worse.

Inquisitor Engel
15-09-2013, 00:45
Well, reading the Iyanden codex it seems like there are more than enough non nounverber names in the Eldar craftworlds.

What the prolification of nounverbs could be from an in-universe perspective is more of a title. For instance, Illic Nightspear might actually be Illic Ulthanash (doubtful, but just an example) but because the Eldar are fond of using mythic or storied first names, some Eldar earn a title lastname that they go by, perhaps to distinguish themselves from their ancestors (who may well be present as Wraith constructs from time to time).

Just an off-the-top-of-my-head thought. :)

Voss
15-09-2013, 01:22
I've noticed there's an increase in Eldar names that are basically Luke Nounverber; basically universally now, new characters will follow this format. I thought they are a bit hamfisted, and not as elegent as the simple names they had since the Craftworlds were introduced, such as Kelmon, Karhedron and so on. Even the more 'elfy' ones like Karadryel were ok.

But these days, almost all of them are NounVerbs, or sometimes NounNouns if you're lucky (Nightspear, I'm looking at you; Illic is fine though).

Actually, they are pre-Eldar names. Even Eldar pirates had cooler names, like Yriel, Xian or Myan.

When Eldar were 'Space Elves', they had names like Gaedhil Quickshadow, Iric Trueshot (I wonder if he was Illic's precursor...) and so on.

Now, Nounverbs aren't bad per-se, but I think the 'efly' sounding given name is a bit too much. For a start, I think it would be better if their surname is first, rather than the given name.

How much cooler is Nightspear Illic, Wildfire Elysia and so on than the other way around?

What do you think?

Well, since they are elves, why wouldn't they have elfy names?
I'm pretty sure the story behind the nounverb names is that they are crude human translations of far more complicated concepts. It is the usual sort of thing with any sort of elf.

Theolla
15-09-2013, 23:26
For my personal preference, I like Eldar names that genuinely sound alien, maybe with an elven touch. Sticking two words together and calling it a day seems a bit uncreative to me. It feels like they came out of a random name generator. Realizing that a huge chunk of the names in Warcraft lore are nounverber names was one of the reasons I became disinterested in the lore.

I love the names of the Craftworlds and I hope they continue that naming style. However, I understand there's a balance to it. If you give everyone very foreign alien names, pretty soon your average reader is not going to remember who anyone is. So I guess what I'm saying is I don't mind the occasional nounverber style names as long as they're not the standard.

As for putting the surname first, something about it doesn't sound quite right. Unfortunately I don't have a better reason than that. :P

Poseidal
15-09-2013, 23:37
I think names can sound 'natural' while being alien names: Kelmon is one I never forgot WD127.

Macthen, Berel, and Elshar aren't bad names.

Hendarion
16-09-2013, 09:07
Nounverbers are dumb. But so are the words "Mon-Keigh" and "Chem-pan-sey". I know 40k always had a funny touch and I always like it. But those words are just silly.

Poseidal
16-09-2013, 09:27
Nounverbers are dumb. But so are the words "Mon-Keigh" and "Chem-pan-sey". I know 40k always had a funny touch and I always like it. But those words are just silly.

Definately agree. Thankfully 'mon-keigh' seems to be omitted from the more recent books (unless I missed it).

sgtspiff
16-09-2013, 11:03
Mon-Keigh is lovely. Hope it stays forever.

The eldar names is a bit unimaginative bit still better than SM crossculture names. "It's a italian styled chapter lets call the characters Sven and Bjorn".

Sildani
17-09-2013, 13:34
Putting the surname first implies that the group, or clan, is valued over the individual. Given the intensely individualistic nature of the Eldar, I can't see that happening at all often, with the exception of the Wild Rider clans of Saim-Hann, and in that case it's probably a matter of pride more than anything.

It makes much more sense for the Tau and probably a few Imperial worlds/regiments.

Poseidal
17-09-2013, 13:47
Eldar are very 'house' or family based though, in terms of culture and society (though it varies), even if they are very individualistic and don't really limit anyone outside of the overall Path system.

I guess people drop the name too, with big names like Yriel being known only as Yriel? (not sure about Eldrad).

Palvinore
17-09-2013, 16:11
The 3rd edition Eldar Codex had a section from the viewpoint of an Imperial envoy to Alaitoc that gave an example of a full name:

Alai-Eltanomorreiasalonethatil

Broken down it meant:
Alai (Of Alaitoc)
Eltano (birth name)
mor (the wise)
reia (rising star)
salo (the teacher)
nethatil (family name ending)

In normal conversation, this individual Eldar was known as Elthil (a contraction of the birth and family name).

I much prefer this over nounverber or nounnouner names which just come off as lazy "slap two random words together and call it a name". The weakness would be some element of planning and consistency so that names don't equally just become a random mash of letters on the keyboard. Having such names wouldn't detract from Eldar still claiming descent from a House and having a House name.

It would still be better than the Iyanden supplement's eye rolling names like Taec Silvereye, Draech Starhand, Elendri Deathsiren, Kelmon Firesight.