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Foolish Mortal
19-09-2013, 13:32
Over on Dakka, there is a thread saying that GW are to bring back specialist games, starting in the 3rd quarter of 2014.

Link:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/553198.page

For those who can't or don't want to go there:


Tim the Thief over at faeit212 wrote:GW will bring back Specialist Games gradually with beginning in the 3th Quarter 2014.
-First Game will be Epic in July or August 2014
-There will be no individual model Boxes or Blister, only Game Sets and possibly "Expansions"
-Sets remain permanent in assortment
-Epic Game Set might feature Space Marines vs. Orks, there will be Sets for Imperial Guard, Eldar and Chaos

Nice if true, but I guess an oceans worth of salt required.

Novrain
19-09-2013, 13:52
I doubt it for a couple of reasons:

1) EPIC seems the game least suited to a fixed list/size boxed game. BFG, Necromunda, or a resurrected Inquisitor in 28mm would all require less rewriting of rules and provide a better defined skirmish / fixed list system.

2) They only just canned it - seems far too early for them to be bringing back any of the Specialist Games

3) I can't make the date make sense either given the other release rumour we have

f2k
19-09-2013, 14:09
Pretty much what Novrain said.

However, Epic has one thing going for it - the rules have been kept updated and playtest by groups on the internet. Should be easy enough for Games Workshop to pick up the pieces again.


Would be sweet if they did... But salt and all that...

shelfunit.
19-09-2013, 14:35
If they do, brilliant - but what would the prices be like? A few months before they were discontinued they had a hike and I very much doubt they would re-enter the world without at least one more.

Foolish Mortal
19-09-2013, 14:41
If they do, brilliant - but what would the prices be like? A few months before they were discontinued they had a hike and I very much doubt they would re-enter the world without at least one more.

Sad but true.

Daniel36
19-09-2013, 14:45
2) They only just canned it - seems far too early for them to be bringing back any of the Specialist Games

On the other hand, the reasons for canning something could be just that. If it wasn't for the Specialist part of this forum, I doubt many would even notice them being gone, and it's easier to launch a game, old or new, from scratch than it is to do it with some old models still being in production.

Ullis
19-09-2013, 14:59
You would think that GW may make an attempt to re-enter the skirmish market. One of the big complaints that folks have with GW is the cost of building the armies required for 40k and Fantasy, so relaunching Necromunda and/or Mordheim could act as competition for the likes of Privateer Press and Corvus Belli. I started wargaming with GW skirmish games, and they acted as a gateway to the larger scale games.

One Man Assault
19-09-2013, 15:35
Could easily be true. Problem with old specialist games was that they took up too much warehouse space and required time for casting. They made a profit just not as much as more space marines.

So release epic with three sprues (same number as new Centurions). One sprue for space marines, one for orks, one for terrain. You could fit plenty of infantry and vehicles on a single modern sprue. Release rules as PDF. Same size box as Centurions, charge similar price, anywhere from 30 to 50. Saves warehouse space and reduces casting time. Surely a whole game of epic would equal sales of some more specialised single plastic models, say the Vampire Count Coven Throne, the Tau Bomber, the Dark Eldar Bomber or the High Elf flying chariot? Also, releasing expansions would merely mean producing a single new sprue or buying titans/aircraft from forgeworld.

MiyamatoMusashi
19-09-2013, 16:25
I'll believe it when I see it, and not before.

MarcoSkoll
19-09-2013, 16:47
Hmm. I think this rumour needs some salt.

178320

It could be nice to believe (potentially loopy pricing aside), but it doesn't fit with GW's previous attitude to the specialist games. Plus, it's faeit212, one of the sources I am very sceptical about.

~Revenant~
19-09-2013, 17:14
I thought the main reason SG was canned recently was because we all were aware that once the metal ran out it was game over and that MAYBE they would turn failcast, it's not only SG that was canned alot of the metals for 40k. fb and sg ( even the watchtower and chapel which are plastic are now oop ), it would not be too far fetched for GW to even see the light and say....team...nobody is going to buy failcast SG thats even more overpriced, lets just re release SG stuff slowly with new plastic it will sell as well as spacehulk.

Anyway if they did release SG again, what would happen probably is it would be limited too, not as limited as the 2 year mystery boxes but maybe a shelf life of 2-3 years like the old days.

Considering the entry prices of 40k and fb, considering that middle earth license will run out eventually...they are going to eventually figure out that the two core games are far too expensive for little jimmy, so reintroducing SG as all plastic games with expansions could be a reality for more cash grabs, yes yes you can buy a 40k army now for only $1000, or you can only spend $200 on this epic boxed game and expansion, I have no doubts the prices of the SG would be up there but I think they would do this as cash grab entry type thing without the uber cheap prices of he 90s vs now.

Highly possible its a valid rumor considering alot of things, consider this last june they did not raise prices as much also...there is a reason for that and it's not charity, even GW has its limits on how far they will go for cash so they will have to figure out new ways to suck the cash out of people without it being as obvious.

MiyamatoMusashi
19-09-2013, 17:22
Highly possible its a valid rumor considering alot of things, consider this last june they did not raise prices as much also...there is a reason for that and it's not charity

Yes, it's because for five or six months in a row every new release was slightly more expensive than the one before, so they didn't need a big price rise in the summer.

cornonthecob
19-09-2013, 18:25
Failcast would of been an AWFUL material for most SG. 54mm stuff would of been full of more holes then swiss cheese and the Epic/Warmaster stuff would of been so deformed as to be useless.

Badbones777
19-09-2013, 18:39
I'd like to see the return of Specialist Games in some form or another, but to be honest I'd like Fantasy Flight to pick up the rights to it if at
all possible as for my money they've done a better job with GW's own IP's than GW have for a while now! (excepting WFRP 3rd edition which
I was not keen on - will stick to 2nd).

Obviously I can't see many (or even any) of the lines that require a lot of minis being viable if such a thing were to be true (possibly Epic?) but
I could see FFG doing great things with the likes of Battle for Armageddon, Blood Bowl (though arguably this is not needed as you can get the living rules)
and Battle Fleet Gothic etc.

Badbones777
19-09-2013, 18:39
Double post, frack it.

~Revenant~
19-09-2013, 19:25
Yes, it's because for five or six months in a row every new release was slightly more expensive than the one before, so they didn't need a big price rise in the summer.

Partly true partly false, some examples...not even GW has been so arrogant as to raise the 12 man split lotr plastic boxes even more, most of the whfb troop boxes have remained the same, my guess for similar reasons...what they have done is the new box sets coming out they are about 5-10 more depending on what it is, along with the 40k stuff. Looking at the newest marines they are not far off from the metal priced versions of say the sternguard etc.

We will see next june what happens but I truly believe we are at a point and even GW knows it that if they continue to keep raising EVERYTHING to absurd prices that soon it will be even hard for them to slog off to new people, which just so happens to be their main bread and butter for the last few years and their business aim policy....by re introducing SG....but at similar prices of say intro sets or close to that, they can from a business marketing type perspective, market those to the young ones, as I said like above "see you can buy X game and its all items in the box and you can expand it with this expansion or buy more x plastic kits" which is what they do with 40k and fb now yes, but the point is both those games at 2k+ are insane expensive to most people, especially new people walking into a GW.

I have no doubts GW will continue to raise prices when they can but I also feel strongly over them hitting a cap where it becomes a problem to their business and sales, and why SG would help to counter that...it would keep them bringing money in with cheaper intro sg like games, and for those crazy enough or rich enough to continue funding their fb/40k armies too.

greenstuff_gav
19-09-2013, 21:11
Failcast would of been an AWFUL material for most SG. 54mm stuff would of been full of more holes then swiss cheese and the Epic/Warmaster stuff would of been so deformed as to be useless.
ironically, with the larger surfaces 54mm would benefit from resin over metal; GW's spincast resin needs alot of risers to work properly and 54mm stuff has alot of flat areas and less (comparably) smaller details...

Marked_by_chaos
19-09-2013, 21:23
It would be great not least to see a return to "games" workshop.

However it will have to fit into their overall direction. They will not bring out a game that is a cheaper alternative to the main systems.

I think this rumour may be bogus although I like the idea. When lotr/hobbit winds down it would be great to have a section of standalone games/expansions in store.

I could see potential as follows:

1.adeptus titanicus reboot so as not to compete with apocalypse. Maybe drop the scale. You could have a set with a whole Titan legion formation each and at a smaller scale infantry and tank formations could be more token/base type pieces. Perhaps it could represent the battle for mars in the Horus heresy. If you had expansions it could be Armageddon (Ork) expansion and gryphonne (tyranid expansion) etc.

2. Bfg - some famous engagement/campaign - probably imperium v chaos but with a whole fleet each in the box.

3. Warhammer quest - one box then the expansions would effectively be existing warhammer kits. Adventure expansions would tie in the the digital product model.

Sadly I can't see necromunda or warm aster making a return. Gw simply don't appear to be interested in a skirmish game capable of employing mainstream system models as it is a cheap backdoor to the hobby. Warhammer quest is not in the same category as you needs fair number of models to stock the dungeon full of adversaries.

Coldhatred
20-09-2013, 19:12
I would be all over Warhammer Quest and Mordheim. I'd love to see Epic again, but GW seems to think Apocalypse = Epic and Warmaster kind of falls to the same thinking I believe.

Inquisitor Engel
20-09-2013, 19:34
Could they be Fantasy Flight partnerships perhaps? FF handles the rules, GW does minis when and if they're able? Wasn't that the rumour around the time they were canned?

AsleepByDay
23-09-2013, 16:00
GW's compeditor to XWing maybe? In that if they release the game as a standalone box with 'all in one' expansions it could be sold in all the places XWing is sold and compete for all the non gamer customers that XWing has found.

If you used coloured plastic you could avoid some of the issues about painting them.

Coldhatred
23-09-2013, 18:32
Problem I see with that is that GW's IPs don't have nearly the brand recognition that Star Wars does, not by a long shot, so the marketing major in me screams that that would be a terrible idea. GW, despite their flaws, do realize that they are a niche product, they simply don't realize that they are no longer in a niche industry (at least compared to even a decade ago).

Autumn Leaves
23-09-2013, 22:36
They need to do something to bring some money in to cover the fact that WFB is tanking badly.

Senbei
23-09-2013, 23:27
1) EPIC seems the game least suited to a fixed list/size boxed game. BFG, Necromunda, or a resurrected Inquisitor in 28mm would all require less rewriting of rules and provide a better defined skirmish / fixed list system.

It might work better if they limited it to Titans, much like Ye olde Adeptus Titanicus.

cornonthecob
24-09-2013, 07:42
They need to do something to bring some money in to cover the fact that WFB is tanking badly.

WFB isn't tanking, merely not bringing in as much money as SPEEHS MUHREENZ which as the recent sales have shown us even to this day bring in insane money.

shelfunit.
24-09-2013, 07:59
WFB isn't tanking, merely not bringing in as much money as SPEEHS MUHREENZ which as the recent sales have shown us even to this day bring in insane money.

We can only assume this is the case until the half year reports come in. If I recall the Tau were "tau-ted" (I'm here all week) as selling like hot cakes by some of the shop owners on here (along with every other release since last summer), but it made no impression on the end of year figures compared to the previous years.


It might work better if they limited it to Titans, much like Ye olde Adeptus Titanicus.

Maybe - titans were the most expensive (individual) part of any Epic army purchase - something akin to Dreadfleet with a titan/large super heavy for each race could work better this time as the Epic community is far healthier than the Man O' War was when DF was released. As long as the don't bugger about with the scale or play stupid with the price then it would probably sell. Some high quality placcy Epic buildings would go down well too.

ehlijen
24-09-2013, 08:55
GW's compeditor to XWing maybe? In that if they release the game as a standalone box with 'all in one' expansions it could be sold in all the places XWing is sold and compete for all the non gamer customers that XWing has found.

If you used coloured plastic you could avoid some of the issues about painting them.

Forgeworld used to sell Aeronautica Imperialis, which was basically X-Wing in 40k. And they ditched it.

Senbei
24-09-2013, 09:10
Maybe - titans were the most expensive (individual) part of any Epic army purchase - something akin to Dreadfleet with a titan/large super heavy for each race could work better this time as the Epic community is far healthier than the Man O' War was when DF was released. As long as the don't bugger about with the scale or play stupid with the price then it would probably sell. Some high quality placcy Epic buildings would go down well too.

Or just release a box with 4 Reavers and 2 Warlords in it and say it's set in the Heresy. The next box could be Eldar Vs Orks or something....

shelfunit.
24-09-2013, 10:32
Or just release a box with 4 Reavers and 2 Warlords in it and say it's set in the Heresy.

Isn't Heresy era Forge World's province though now? (not that I'd complain)


The next box could be Eldar Vs Orks or something....

..."next" box? Surely you jest...

lbecks
24-09-2013, 10:35
I always liked the themed mordheim sets with a little bit of everything. A Warhammer quest box would be cool. I'd also like to see GW get a boxed stand alone game into a mass retail chain.

RunepriestRidcully
24-09-2013, 10:45
I must admit, the fact we have got HH novels on the mechanicum, I would be suprised if GW makes no move back into the titan scale market, I have a pair of warhounds and I would love to use them, and a pure titan combat game would be fun.

AsleepByDay
24-09-2013, 10:59
Forgeworld used to sell Aeronautica Imperialis, which was basically X-Wing in 40k. And they ditched it.

Yeah, I have most of the models for it. By competitor I didn't mean a similar game though, I meant a game that could be sold in the same places and appeal to the same people.