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Imperator64
21-09-2013, 03:12
Does he still exist? I haven't seen him since I've been back.

Grimdark83
21-09-2013, 03:35
he exists as a model but he has not been a playable character for a very long time

Ister Flersson
21-09-2013, 13:46
Fluffwise, I believe he is still recovering in Nagshizzar from the last time someone killed him. So inconvenient, getting killed.

TheDungen
21-09-2013, 13:59
Just a minor setback

Ullis
22-09-2013, 21:29
It bemuses me that Nagash never got an updated sculpt. For such a central figure in the Warhammer world, that was an awful miniature. Great character though.

-Totenkopf-
22-09-2013, 22:10
he is from a time when Lich Priests were combat monsters..ahh the good ole days..

IcedCrow
22-09-2013, 23:02
He hasnt been playable in 3 editions now

Ramius4
22-09-2013, 23:04
It bemuses me that Nagash never got an updated sculpt. For such a central figure in the Warhammer world, that was an awful miniature. Great character though.

That's because the sculpt came out around the 4th-5th edition (can't recall which exactly). But when 6th came out, what used to be simply the Undead army book, was split into Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings. Nagash was dead by then in the storyline, and hasn't been back since, so there was never any need to do a new one.

Ullis
22-09-2013, 23:11
That's because the sculpt came out around the 4th-5th edition (can't recall which exactly). But when 6th came out, what used to be simply the Undead army book, was split into Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings. Nagash was dead by then in the storyline, and hasn't been back since, so there was never any need to do a new one.

That is a fair point, mate.

Deris87
23-09-2013, 04:38
I've also heard an anecdote that Gary Morley intentionally designed the head to be awful because he had an alternate head he wanted to use, but to his chagrin they went with the awful clown one. So you see, it's not his fault! He knows it was just as awful as the rest of us, haha!

The bearded one
23-09-2013, 05:47
Nagash is currently in a peculiar place, fluffwise, and we're not entirely sure what's going on with him. He died a couple of times and each time took a millenia or so to revive himself, but the last time he died was in 15 ic by Sigmar's hand and he returned in 1681. Since then he hasn't been killed anymore, but apparently he hasn't done anything since then anymore. Yet strangely in the latest vampire and high elf armybooks there is a new story thread developing where Mannfred von Carstein kidnaps the daughter of the phoenix king and brings her to Nagashizzar in order to revive Nagash.. Who isn't dead anymore anyway! When the elven heroes attack and enter Nagashizzar, they encounter no trace of Nagash himself except for masses of undead minions.

Kakapo42
23-09-2013, 07:52
It bemuses me that Nagash never got an updated sculpt. For such a central figure in the Warhammer world, that was an awful miniature. Great character though.


I've also heard an anecdote that Gary Morley intentionally designed the head to be awful because he had an alternate head he wanted to use, but to his chagrin they went with the awful clown one. So you see, it's not his fault! He knows it was just as awful as the rest of us, haha!

But.... but I Like the Nagash miniature.

Fear Ghoul
23-09-2013, 10:25
I've also heard an anecdote that Gary Morley intentionally designed the head to be awful because he had an alternate head he wanted to use, but to his chagrin they went with the awful clown one. So you see, it's not his fault! He knows it was just as awful as the rest of us, haha!

The head is only 10% of the problem with the Nagash model. The body is the remaining 90%.


Nagash is currently in a peculiar place, fluffwise, and we're not entirely sure what's going on with him. He died a couple of times and each time took a millenia or so to revive himself, but the last time he died was in 15 ic by Sigmar's hand and he returned in 1681. Since then he hasn't been killed anymore, but apparently he hasn't done anything since then anymore. Yet strangely in the latest vampire and high elf armybooks there is a new story thread developing where Mannfred von Carstein kidnaps the daughter of the phoenix king and brings her to Nagashizzar in order to revive Nagash.. Who isn't dead anymore anyway! When the elven heroes attack and enter Nagashizzar, they encounter no trace of Nagash himself except for masses of undead minions.

I think it's meant to be very much like Sauron at the end of the Third Age. He has returned and sits on his throne in Barad-Dur, but he acts mainly through proxy as he is too weak to assail the world without his ring, the source of much of his power. I think Nagash is around, but he probably just sits in Nagashizzar in a trance-like state.


But.... but I Like the Nagash miniature.

Then you should sit in the corner and think about why you are such a horrible person.

Theocracity
23-09-2013, 16:05
Based on some of the extremely vague ponderings going on in the 9th Edition rumors thread, I'm wondering if Nagash's return is a card that GW might play in an advanced timeline scenario....

Ullis
23-09-2013, 20:04
Based on some of the extremely vague ponderings going on in the 9th Edition rumors thread, I'm wondering if Nagash's return is a card that GW might play in an advanced timeline scenario....

"I have, once more, returned from the oblivion of half death to unleash my furious hatred on the realms of the living...and before you ask, yes my head is still stupidly big and clownish".

Lord Dan
23-09-2013, 20:17
It bemuses me that Nagash never got an updated sculpt. For such a central figure in the Warhammer world, that was an awful miniature. Great character though.

I've never felt he should have come back as a playable character anyway. Based on what he is capable in the background lore he would either be WAY too powerful in game, or would be slapped with 8th-edition-Teclis syndrome in which his abilities in-game don't even come close to representing what he's supposed to be capable of doing.

Theocracity
23-09-2013, 22:12
I've never felt he should have come back as a playable character anyway. Based on what he is capable in the background lore he would either be WAY too powerful in game, or would be slapped with 8th-edition-Teclis syndrome in which his abilities in-game don't even come close to representing what he's supposed to be capable of doing.

There are ways to manipulate the fluff so it could fit. Perhaps he hasn't regenerated to his true power level yet. Maybe he's working through doppelgänger avatars. Maybe they pull a Dragonlance and have the gods become mortal (...or was that Forgotten Realms?). That last one's unlikely, but the point is if they wanted to put him back in the game, they'd find a way (though that's no guarantee it'd satisfy people.....)

Charistoph
24-09-2013, 05:39
Based on some of the extremely vague ponderings going on in the 9th Edition rumors thread, I'm wondering if Nagash's return is a card that GW might play in an advanced timeline scenario....
And then get beat down by Grimgor Ironhide?

Still, him and a few notables could be reintroduced in a Storm of Magic-type expansion. Maybe they set up 'historical' scenarios like when Sigmar helped save the Dwarfs which earned him his hammer.

Ramius4
24-09-2013, 06:08
Still, him and a few notables could be reintroduced in a Storm of Magic-type expansion.

For me, this is the best way he could be represented. His fluff puts him so far beyond what even the top characters are capable of it's not even funny. I still remember facing him in 5th edition. It was an event whenever you saw him.

Ghark
24-09-2013, 08:00
Maybe we can hope Warhammer Forge to bring back such powerfull characters with some "Time of Legends" books ?

At least, I'd like to !!!!

Minty
24-09-2013, 09:36
I think it's meant to be very much like Sauron at the end of the Third Age. He has returned and sits on his throne in Barad-Dur, but he acts mainly through proxy as he is too weak to assail the world without his ring, the source of much of his power. I think Nagash is around, but he probably just sits in Nagashizzar in a trance-like state.

I like to think that it's not weakness. He doesn't have to sit and plan and ponder and work through proxies. I like to imagine that this time, he's choosing to work behind the scenes. I like to imagine that just once, a big bad of thw Warhammer world has come up with a plan for world domination that doesn't hinge on his personally winning a swordfight with Tyrrion, Karl Franz or whoever else.



And then get beat down by Grimgor Ironhide?

Or Grimgor.

No, actually, that's an exception, I'd love to see Nagash get stomped by Grimgor. Just watch Grimgor Ironhide go bananas on everything until he reaches the top of Nagashizzar and throws Nagash around like that bit in The Avengers. If they ever do advance the timeline, I know what I'm hopin' for!

Fear Ghoul
24-09-2013, 10:24
I don't know why people keep insisting that Nagash would have to be absurdly amazing in the game. In 4th edition he could be slapped around by a Bloodthrister. Nagash certainly needn't be any more amazing than Mazdamundi or Teclis in terms of magic, and a generic Greater Daemon in terms of combat stats.

FatTrucker
24-09-2013, 17:12
TBH he doesn't have to be awesome in combat. Perhaps give him a unique signature spell but being Lord of the Dead he'd be far better represented by providing lots of really helpful buffs for the army he's controlling.

Nymie_the_Pooh
24-09-2013, 22:00
I think it would be fun to have him available as part of a Summer campaign. Just something that is limited time to where we get some crazy named characters and variant army lists, get an update on the story, then phased out of competitive play after the event is over so a few months after that the characters that were introduced are gone from all public games except to count as generic characters.

Charistoph
24-09-2013, 23:07
I think it would be fun to have him available as part of a Summer campaign. Just something that is limited time to where we get some crazy named characters and variant army lists, get an update on the story, then phased out of competitive play after the event is over so a few months after that the characters that were introduced are gone from all public games except to count as generic characters.

That's why I mentioned Grimgor. He was the "star/hero" in the last major summer campaign. One of the last Fantasy ones to be held, actually.

Azazyll
24-09-2013, 23:29
By splitting undead into two army books they really did in Nagash. Which one would he go in? He can make use of either book. At least they brought back Arkhan the Black this edition - he more clearly falls into the old TK front. But Nagash should really have access to the whole shebang, from mummies and Bone Giants to vampires and ghouls.

Maybe the proposed "big changes" and "timeline change" Harry hinted at would involved bringing Nagash back in as a player on the world stage.

Ramius4
25-09-2013, 03:44
By splitting undead into two army books they really did in Nagash. Which one would he go in? He can make use of either book. At least they brought back Arkhan the Black this edition - he more clearly falls into the old TK front. But Nagash should really have access to the whole shebang, from mummies and Bone Giants to vampires and ghouls.

If they had to pick one or the other, Tomb Kings is more appropriate. The Vampires became enemies of Nehekhara later on in the story.

The bearded one
25-09-2013, 04:08
Except the tomb kings utterly despise Nagash, because he is the cause of their curse, so a tomb king army with nagash should realistically be unable to have tomb kings, princes, liche priests or the casket. The vampires were Nagash's lieutenants though, and Nagash uses their types of units (apart from the obvious skeletons) like ghouls, bats and zombies. VC would be more appropriate.

Ramius4
25-09-2013, 04:12
Except the tomb kings utterly despise Nagash, because he is the cause of their curse, so a tomb king army with nagash should realistically be unable to have tomb kings, princes, liche priests or the casket. The vampires were Nagash's lieutenants though, and Nagash uses their types of units (apart from the obvious skeletons) like ghouls, bats and zombies. VC would be more appropriate.

There's also the part about Nagash dominating their will, so that's why I was thinking TK. You do bring up a good point though about the Vampires being his lieutenants, and Nagash himself is something of an exile to the Tomb Kings.

Maybe a mix of the two Undead races would even be the most appropriate. It would be fitting for Nagash, since he created ALL of them.

Hive Mind 33
25-09-2013, 04:31
He did not dominate their will. In the Tomb Kings book it says they(the kings princes and
The legions they were buried with)were protected by the wards places on their pyramids, and necropolises. They woke up and were rather angry.

Charistoph
25-09-2013, 06:05
Except the tomb kings utterly despise Nagash, because he is the cause of their curse, so a tomb king army with nagash should realistically be unable to have tomb kings, princes, liche priests or the casket. The vampires were Nagash's lieutenants though, and Nagash uses their types of units (apart from the obvious skeletons) like ghouls, bats and zombies. VC would be more appropriate.

They're not too fond of Apophas, either.

But I should point out that Nagash currently tends to walk in the circles of Vampires, not in the boundaries of Khemri.

Now if his rules were being presented during his initial rise, then he would be well placed in the Tomb Kings.

Arnizipal
25-09-2013, 12:29
No, actually, that's an exception, I'd love to see Nagash get stomped by Grimgor. Just watch Grimgor Ironhide go bananas on everything until he reaches the top of Nagashizzar and throws Nagash around like that bit in The Avengers. If they ever do advance the timeline, I know what I'm hopin' for!
I think you can go join Kakapo42 in the corner now :mad:


Except the tomb kings utterly despise Nagash, because he is the cause of their curse, so a tomb king army with nagash should realistically be unable to have tomb kings, princes, liche priests or the casket. The vampires were Nagash's lieutenants though, and Nagash uses their types of units (apart from the obvious skeletons) like ghouls, bats and zombies. VC would be more appropriate.
The Vampires hate Nagash too and they all deserted him (except for the Necrarch bloodline).

The bearded one
25-09-2013, 13:49
The Vampires hate Nagash too and they all deserted him (except for the Necrarch bloodline).

The vampires were welcomed by Nagash after Lahmia was destroyed and were made his captains and lieutenants. However when they attacked Nehekhara and failed, they roused Nagash's ire for their failure, and almost all fled into hiding to avoid it (because of which Nagash cursed them to burn in the rays of the sun) except for W'soran. The vampires are still a far more likely ally to Nagash (the latest VC and High Elf books have that storythread where Mannfred is trying to restore Nagash, for example), even if they fled from him. I think some came out of hiding to help Nagash too when Nagash returned centuries after being killed by Alcadizaar and Nagash invaded the empire.

By contrast Nagash is the greatest enemy and an utter nemesis for the tomb kings, who hate and despise him with their very being due to what he caused to happen to them.

Arnizipal
25-09-2013, 14:00
It may have changed with the Nagash Trilogy, but in the Liber Necris the master vampires were manipulated into serving Nagash (he created them in the first place by guiding Neferata's experiments in necromancy through W'Soran). Though he made vampires the leaders of his armies, he cared nothing for their existance and they were ultimatly just pawns to him. Once the vampires realised this they conspired to escape from Nagash (they couldn't flee by their own accord due to the influence of a magical ring Nagash gifted to Vasanesh).

Vasanesh sacrificed himself (breaking the power of the ring) during the final battle between the undead and the united forces of Nehekhara, and the other vampires fled the field immediately, contributing to the downfall of Nagash. This is when Nagash cursed them with an aversion for daylight.

He cursed them a second time (this time with a aversion to holy symbols) when he was defeated by Sigmar, as none of the vampires came to his aide during his invasion of the human lands.

Azmodian
25-09-2013, 14:16
It bemuses me that Nagash never got an updated sculpt. For such a central figure in the Warhammer world, that was an awful miniature. Great character though.

Harry does the model justice in his Plog

Fear Ghoul
25-09-2013, 15:05
It may have changed with the Nagash Trilogy, but in the Liber Necris the master vampires were manipulated into serving Nagash (he created them in the first place by guiding Neferata's experiments in necromancy through W'Soran). Though he made vampires the leaders of his armies, he cared nothing for their existance and they were ultimatly just pawns to him. Once the vampires realised this they conspired to escape from Nagash (they couldn't flee by their own accord due to the influence of a magical ring Nagash gifted to Vasanesh).

Vasanesh sacrificed himself (breaking the power of the ring) during the final battle between the undead and the united forces of Nehekhara, and the other vampires fled the field immediately, contributing to the downfall of Nagash. This is when Nagash cursed them with an aversion for daylight.

He cursed them a second time (this time with a aversion to holy symbols) when he was defeated by Sigmar, as none of the vampires came to his aide during his invasion of the human lands.

In the 4th edition background, the Vampires returned defeated to Nagashizzar before fleeing from Nagash's wrath. When Nagash invades the Empire several Vampires heed his call but Nagash curses the rest for failing to follow his commands.


Harry does the model justice in his Plog

Harry does a good job with a terrible model.