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View Full Version : my friend plays a flying List (WoC) and i(HE) am powerless against it



Zwink
22-09-2013, 09:33
do you guys maybe have some ideas on how to handle a list like this.


he has a flying DP with nurgle
melee lord on disc
and a manticore.
his core consists of warriors.

bambamBIGILO
22-09-2013, 09:58
-Death magic, warriors leadership is at best 9 doom and darkness with spirit leech.
- skycutters with bolt thrower cheap and great or regular bolt throwers but flying ones are better (hand of glory makes them ace)
-if hes nurgle light magic give yourself WS 10
-High magic lots of good stuff try to destroy his magic items
- counter with your flyers: dragons, sky cutter, pheonix
- BotWD, deamon prince, any kitted lords, skullcrushers(if ensorcelled weapons),hellcanons, they cant touch this unit just bully him with it.

hope that helps

Coldblood666
22-09-2013, 20:35
Sure he's not over his Lord allowance?

RejjeN
22-09-2013, 20:55
Definitely sounds like he's playing with at least 1000 points in lords, probably way more than that, so you must be playing some massive battles, or he's not following the points restrictions.

As for tips, all of the things he posted (with perhaps the exception of the lord on disk) don't like bolt throwers (Especially the Daemon Prince whose only defense against them are his 5+ ward save), and Arcane Unforging can be used to (hopefully) deal with the Disk Lords 3+ re-roll 1's ward save (What were they thinking when they made that combination possible!?)

Lord Inquisitor
22-09-2013, 21:07
You can fit a nurgle daemon prince and a disc lord in at 2500 (I assume when he says "manticore" he means "chimera"), but that means no level 4 and probably a pretty much stripped down daemon prince.

BlackPawl
23-09-2013, 08:47
If the demon prince is only a level 1 or 2 mage then a sevejils scroll will do wonders - I love this scroll ... :-)

Shadeseraph
23-09-2013, 13:24
Maybe it is an Exalted, rather than a Lord? That would make it much more reasonable and in line with what I've seen fielded.

As for solutions:
-RBTs and sisters are a must. Not so much because they can kill things (they can, but it's not easy) but that they can scare flying biggies. Board control is key against WoC.
-Set countercharges. If he uses his flyers aggresively, use your army defensively: Set baits, leave your killy troops back to counter charge... Even if he doesn't he will think twice before stepping forward with his killing machine. Again, a DP/lord not in combat is vulnerable to shooting, and isn't doing its work. High Elven cavalry and flyers work wonders for this. If you are using the BotWD, that single unit will be such a threat as to limit his options completely.
-Flee. Most people do not realize the uses of fleeing. Even if he catches the unit and runs it down, if you've set up your countercharges properly, he has just left a 300-500 pts model in the open.

Lord Solar Plexus
25-09-2013, 12:20
Perhaps that "Disc Lord" is indeed the BSB, who knows.

Be that as it may, there are some good suggestions here. I don't think flying cutters or Death Magic are very useful but you have a lot of mobile stuff of your own, and he's apparently advancing in two waves, or cleverly holding back his flyers until the Warriors are there.

Kahadras
25-09-2013, 16:19
For the DP some Sisters and a battery of Bolt Throwers should cut him down. Target him with the Sisters first to try to take out the Charmed Shield (if he has it) then hit it with a bunch of single bolts.

The Manticore can also be dealt with by Bolt Throwers. If by Manticore you mean Chimera and by 'a' you mean 'some' then things get a bit more difficult. In this case your best bet is to try to kill the army general and then force them to take leadership checks which they stand a good chance of failing thanks to their pathetic leadership.

I'd also advocate taking plenty of fliers as well. Prince on Dragon, Noble on Griffon and a couple of Frostheart Phoenix will make life difficult for his warrior blocks with their multiple high strength attacks (including the thunderstomps).

Kahadras

ewar
26-09-2013, 07:16
I don't know how many times I've seen this but doom and darkness doesn't stack with spirit leech...

As for tactics, do you have a frost phoenix or two? If not, why not? They are incredible.

If ask fails you cos reach for the win button and load up on white lions with BOTWD. not big and definitely not clever.

mypantsarefree3
03-11-2013, 01:48
That many combat character points equals little to zero magic. Luckily, that's a spot HE excels. Level 4 w/book all the way in a bunker with THE banner if you must. Dominate the magic phase! Shooting can work, but you won't have much time before you're in combat.

NurglesRot
04-11-2013, 02:21
I don't know how many times I've seen this but doom and darkness doesn't stack with spirit leech...

I've also seen this quite a few times. A lot of people skip past the bit where it says unmodified leadership.

I've also had people try to use their general's inspiring presence leadership to help with the result - which you can not do since the FAQ, the general must be part of the unit if you want to use his leadership.


Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it onyour unmodified Leadership. What is your unmodified Leadership?(p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadershipcharacteristic in the unit. So the Leadership from anycharacters in the unit itself (but not from outside the unit, fromInspiring Presence for example) with a higher Leadership canbe used unless specifically stated otherwise.

Shadeseraph
06-11-2013, 00:19
Funny that, the thing is that FAQs contradict themselves on that point. As a matter of fact, I do remember another Q&A in that same FAQ:

Q: Do units benefit from their General’s Inspiring Presence for the
purposes of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or
Okkam’s Mindrazor? (p107)
A: Yes.

NurglesRot
06-11-2013, 00:24
A contradiction in a GW FAQ? Unheard of! :rolleyes:

So we need a FAQ for the FAQ? Which takes precedence then? Do you roll off each turn? Do you pin the faq to a dart board and each turn whichever answer is hit by a dart takes effect?

Shadeseraph
06-11-2013, 00:30
So we need a FAQ for the FAQ? Which takes precedence then? Do you roll off each turn? Do you pin the faq to a dart board and each turn whichever answer is hit by a dart takes effect?

I say each time this comes up we do a Warhammer battle, and the winner decides which faq applies. Recursivity FTW!

Methios
06-11-2013, 08:00
Unless i am mistaken the sisters arrows are flaming? Most nurgle DPS have a dragonbane gem :s.

Romark
06-11-2013, 09:50
Lore of Metal. Take a level 2 (as they have very little magic) with it. It has a huge fear factor in WoC as it can decimate the Warriors (no AS or Regen (assuming he has Festus...)). If you get Enchanted Blades of Alban, along with Searing Doom, you are laughing all day. Final Transmutation isn't bad either ;), but not with a Level 2.

Kain187
06-11-2013, 17:08
As for the FAQ discussion the ability to use inspiring leadership with those specific spells is the latest faq update. I would use that. Think of it as GW removed the unmodified portion in the spell if that helps you.

NurglesRot
07-11-2013, 02:55
As for the FAQ discussion the ability to use inspiring leadership with those specific spells is the latest faq update. I would use that. Think of it as GW removed the unmodified portion in the spell if that helps you.

I'd be inclined to go with this line of reasoning, but the QA stating you can't use IP is in the same FAQ. It doesn't alter Spirit Leech any where to remove the term umodified from the spell description so it can be argued either way. I guess it's up for each group to House Rule it however they will.

An annoying little oversight :wtf:

bigbiggles
07-11-2013, 07:20
I just find it odd that the general cheering/yelling at the wizard makes him better at stealing others souls in mind wars. So I disregard that faq

Jofarin
13-11-2013, 09:17
“That many combat character points equals little to zero magic.“
Wrong! At 2500 the DP is probably lvl 4 death (assuming that it`s not a lord but a hero on disc, which would be way more common). At 2000 you can still field lvl 4 without too big losses or you just go lvl 3.