PDA

View Full Version : Oh, look, another 'help me pick a Chapter' topic



Lester
22-09-2013, 20:25
Me and my brother are each starting a SM army. He is going Ultramarines. I won't obviously and I want to try and pick a Chapter that let's me be as different as possible. Two came to mind at first, Templars and Scars, but I disqualified them as choices pretty quickly because Templars' Chapter Tactics are terrible (and they get no Librarians) and White Scars are Bike and Transport heavy and that means a lot of money (Bikes, buying Grab Gun bits for each Bike Squad, etc.). I don't want Crimson Fists as they're blue and my brother has Ultramarines. I don't want the other Fists because we have an Iyanden Craftworld army.

Among the rest, who plays the most different from the Ultramarines?

SpanielBear
22-09-2013, 20:35
Salamanders would probably stand out as the most different, lots of templates abounding. Iron hands would be good for a tank list, but you've made it clear you don't want to much expense (which tanks would be). That leaves raven guard, but I get the general feeling those are the more vanilla choice of the two.

Lester
22-09-2013, 20:39
Salamanders would probably stand out as the most different, lots of templates abounding. Iron hands would be good for a tank list, but you've made it clear you don't want to much expense (which tanks would be). That leaves raven guard, but I get the general feeling those are the more vanilla choice of the two.

Vehicles aren't a big problem for me as long as the extra expense is just that. But in White Scars, its Vehicles, plus Bikes, plus Grav Guns (come on, if you're doing bikes, its stupid to no spam the Grav Guns).

andyg2006
22-09-2013, 20:41
Could you try one of the successor chapters for the other First Foundings (i.e. to use a different colourscheme to the Ultra's)?

Lester
22-09-2013, 20:45
Could you try one of the successor chapters for the other First Foundings (i.e. to use a different colourscheme to the Ultra's)?

Not really. We both like to go with standard colors and don't tend to go for make-your-own Chapter/Armies (i.e. Yellow Iyanden). We also tend to like the people up at front in the canon fluff, so obscure second/later founding chapters aren't very attractive.

Ssilmath
22-09-2013, 20:57
Just run White Scars without overloading on bikes? Hit and Run is still pretty good on just about everything else in the codex, either to get out of disadvantageous combats or to tie up an enemy shooting squad long enough to get something into position to shoot it up.

But if you don't want that, Raven Guard is probably the more divergent with the Chapter Tactics emphasis on Scouts and Assault Marines. There is also the scouts special rule which gives you a lot of deployment and reserve shenanigans.

SpanielBear
22-09-2013, 21:00
Then iron hands it is. Vindicators, predators, land raiders with THSS terminators (because 2+ 3++ 6+++ is just... Horrifying) inside, maybe a thunder fire cannon if you fancy some kit bashing, tech marines in a command squad and an army of remorseless bionic warriors. Also, black and silver is nicely distinct from blue...

Lester
22-09-2013, 22:45
So we got one vote for Salamanders, I've vote for Iron Hands, and one vote for Raven Guard.
Hehehe. Any more input is welcomed. :)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

DoctorTom
23-09-2013, 00:23
I'd say either Salamanders or Iron Hands. If you're planning on lots of flamers (or meltas if you're going to use Vulkan) go with Salamanders. If you want to go with all your infantry having Feel No Pain (6) and vehicles and characters possibly regaining hull points/wounds, then go with Iron Hands.

Personally, I'd suggest Iron Hands because of the models having a chance to shrug off the damage or regain lost hull points, plus it's a list to have fun with Masters of the Forge (which, if you pay the poweraxe tax to make the boltgun a power axe) you can spend points to trade his boltgun and bolt pistol in for 2 grav pistols, which because of the gunslinger rule means you could fire both in one round if you didn't use any weapons on the servo-harness. He's got 2 servo-arms, so you don't need the pistol for attacks, and you probably wouldn't use the boltgun anyway. (Granted, you could do this with Salamanders, but I always picture them hung up more on melta and/or flamers instead of grav weapons.)

3eland
23-09-2013, 00:30
I say make your own chapter and bring whatever you want to bring. Fluff says there are hundreds of little chapters out there!

Lester
23-09-2013, 00:34
I say make your own chapter and bring whatever you want to bring. Fluff says there are hundreds of little chapters out there!

See the following. :)



Not really. We both like to go with standard colors and don't tend to go for make-your-own Chapter/Armies (i.e. Yellow Iyanden). We also tend to like the people up at front in the canon fluff, so obscure second/later founding chapters aren't very attractive.



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Nazerth
23-09-2013, 00:48
I vote Iron Hands, as per usual :D

This is the first time in 40k's history that IH have decent rules published in an actual codex, I feel that they are finally going to get the representation that they deserve for being a badass first founding chapter.

Lester
23-09-2013, 00:59
It seems Iron Hands is in the lead followed by Salamanders.

Do Iron Hands really play different from Ultramarines?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Tourniquet
23-09-2013, 12:53
Iron hands to me play very....we sit, we siege, you die.
If you want an army that plays differently to ultramarines, go salamanders. The green also contrasts better

I +1 iron hands or salamanders.

Lester
23-09-2013, 15:27
I just saw the pictures at ForgeWorld of Ferrus. My my...that model alone temps me to make my new marine army Iron Hands instead of Salamanders or Raven Guard. It also means I could easily do a Mechanicus ally army in the future and/or toss in Heresy/Pre-Heresy Marine models if I had the cash and be very fluffy.

The prospect of giving it a deserving paint job scares me a lot too...


Iron Hands is getting more temping by the minute...but I'm still not sure that beyond the survivability, it will feel very different from Ultramarines.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4

3eland
23-09-2013, 16:31
See the following. :)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Oops, Missed that entirely!
My bad. :D

DarthSte
23-09-2013, 16:33
Are you wanting to stick to the new Marine codex? If not, then why not go with something like Dark Angels or Space Wolves?

SpanielBear
23-09-2013, 16:35
I think part of the problem is is that ultramarines, due to being able to pick when to use bonuses, do pretty well at everything except close assault and bike armies. Salamanders would probably be the most different in play style, but I still think a proper heavy armour tank blitzkrieg with iron warriors could feel very potent.

Lester
23-09-2013, 16:39
Are you wanting to stick to the new Marine codex? If not, then why not go with something like Dark Angels or Space Wolves?

I don't want Dark Angels, don't like the Codex...the Fliers, LSV, etc.
Space Wolves are alright and I actually own a copy of the current Codex but I already own a Strikeforce, the new Marine Codex in Digital version, a box of Centurions, the plastic Librarian, and a Hunter/Stalker box. So some of that would go to waste (Centurions, Stalker/Hunter) or require heavy conversion (new Tacticals from the Strikeforce, etc.).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4

Brotheroracle
23-09-2013, 16:56
Well via FW there is very fleshed out fluff on several successor chapters

Sons of Medusa = Iron Hands
They have a very nice color scheme and interesting fluff. Basicly out casts from the Iron Hands for believing in an alternative Admech Cult.

Executioners = Imperial fists
Imperial Fists with a twist, they recruit from a feral world and some of that culture's head hunting and death-worshiping practices have been absorbed by the chapter.

There is tons of fluff on chapters other then the first founding if you look. FW has put out quite a few Index Astares profiles for chapters in their books.

Sotek
23-09-2013, 19:23
use my new infographic I made for you: HERE (http://imgur.com/DSTdByW)

Lester
23-09-2013, 21:02
use my new infographic I made for you: HERE (http://imgur.com/DSTdByW)

That's pretty funny. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4

Col. Dash
23-09-2013, 21:35
Rainbow Warriors. my default answer for each of these types of questions. B&C has an extensive pictorial thread of every known marine chapter both cannon and fan made(not sure how recently it was updated) have a look there and see what color scheme catches your attention.

Fangschrecken
24-09-2013, 00:43
@Sotek

as a Mantis Warrior I clack my mandibles in discontent at your graphic. I like to think forgeworld has given us the chance to move past those god-awful books. Curse you C.S. Multilasers!

On topic: go Iron Hands. The bionics will look cool.

Perth
24-09-2013, 02:32
Part of your problem is how many ways Ultramarines can be played. I'd find out how he'll play them before deciding on an army. If he drops them in, don't go Salamanders. If he runs a gunline, don't run Iron Hands. If he breaks out the Rhino Rush, don't match it with White Scars or Imperial Fists.

Lester
24-09-2013, 02:47
Part of your problem is how many ways Ultramarines can be played. I'd find out how he'll play them before deciding on an army. If he drops them in, don't go Salamanders. If he runs a gunline, don't run Iron Hands. If he breaks out the Rhino Rush, don't match it with White Scars or Imperial Fists.

He plans on running a bit of everything (some Tacticals in Rhinos, a Devastator Squad, an Assault Squad, a Stormraven, etc.) to 1) fit the fluff and 2) to make use of the Doctrines.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Perth
24-09-2013, 03:15
I'd drop some Salamanders in on him then.

Oppressor
24-09-2013, 04:46
Iron Hands hands down (and pun intended). They are more unique in the space marine realm of existence and there is literally not a single list you can build that will not benefit from their chapter tactics.

Salamanders would be my second suggestion.

El_Wacko01
24-09-2013, 08:51
Might I suggest Iron Lords? It's a successor of the Iron Hands, but shows you don't have to have a complete black painted army.

V.Pugh
24-09-2013, 10:21
Try painting a few marines in the colors of the chapters you're considering before you decide. You may find that as much as you love one chapter's fluff and special rules, you can't get the paint scheme to come out looking decent.

I love the Fists but yellow power armour is way beyond my abilities and patience as a painter. Hence the Lead Bearers, an Imperial Fists offshoot chapter that was lost during the Heresy (or something...)

Grey primer, some details, a brown wash, some drybrushing and they look half decent creeping through ruins and I get to use the Fists special rules which is why I wanted to play Fists in the first place.

Lester
24-09-2013, 12:09
I already own a few SM stuff. Guess listing them might help:
Strikeforce
Centurion Box
Hunter/Stalker box
Plastic Librarian
Rhino
Razorback
Stormraven
Landraider Crusader/Redemmer box



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4

DoctorTom
24-09-2013, 17:13
Iron Hands is getting more temping by the minute...but I'm still not sure that beyond the survivability, it will feel very different from Ultramarines.

Part of that will be in the units you select. With Iron Hands I can see emphasizing Masters of the Forge and Techmarines with your HQ rather than Captains or Librarians. Having a lot of things around that can fix vehicles, as well as potentially having servitors, will play a little differently. Techmarines can get conversion beamers - would you be considering those if you played Ultramarines? The mindset for army construction will affect how you play it on the table.

Lester
24-09-2013, 17:19
Part of that will be in the units you select. With Iron Hands I can see emphasizing Masters of the Forge and Techmarines with your HQ rather than Captains or Librarians. Having a lot of things around that can fix vehicles, as well as potentially having servitors, will play a little differently. Techmarines can get conversion beamers - would you be considering those if you played Ultramarines? The mindset for army construction will affect how you play it on the table.

Only Masters o the Forge can get the Beamer. ;)
Buy I get your point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4

Nazerth
24-09-2013, 17:21
IH characters having 6+FNP and IWND adds longevity to them and makes it safer to sink points into awesome equipment. And being closer to the Ad Mech than any other chapter in the background gives your precedent to go nuts with the tech. Same can be said about the tanks, if it lives longer it has a much better chance to make up its points in the enemy dead.

DoctorTom
24-09-2013, 17:50
Only Masters o the Forge can get the Beamer. ;)
Buy I get your point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4

You can get more with GK allies, if you don't mind using Allies of Convenience (Ordo Xenos Inquisitor is one who can, to start with.)

Damocles8
24-09-2013, 18:29
Could always go Blood Ravens and decide which tactics to use.....

Nazerth
27-09-2013, 22:41
... and the final reason to collect Iron Hands; FW is making models that look like this (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/Games_Day_Preview_Seven.html) :D

Prshnil
27-09-2013, 23:56
I vote iron hands, I may do them myself.....

TheDoctor
28-09-2013, 00:18
Me and my brother are each starting a SM army. He is going Ultramarines. I won't obviously and I want to try and pick a Chapter that let's me be as different as possible. Two came to mind at first, Templars and Scars, but I disqualified them as choices pretty quickly because Templars' Chapter Tactics are terrible (and they get no Librarians) and White Scars are Bike and Transport heavy and that means a lot of money (Bikes, buying Grab Gun bits for each Bike Squad, etc.). I don't want Crimson Fists as they're blue and my brother has Ultramarines. I don't want the other Fists because we have an Iyanden Craftworld army.

Among the rest, who plays the most different from the Ultramarines?

All I heard is that you want to play the 1st Legion: Dark Angels :)

Kaiserdean
28-09-2013, 03:51
Raven Guard are easy to paint and definitely have a style of their own that's different from Ultras. You may need to pick up a few more assault marines though.

Iron Hands are easy to paint - like Necrons.

Salamanders have the best special character.