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View Full Version : 40k players, would you play Fantasy if Space Marines were transfed in as Knights?



Mike3791
23-09-2013, 23:13
If GW transfered all the Space Marine chapters into Fantasy as Knightly Orders (because that's basically what they are), would 40k players consider fantasy too?

Black Templars would be a no brainer, but also Orders like the "Ultra-mariners", "Ice Wolves", "Arabian Scars", etc to play different themed knight lists with special bonuses like the chapter tactics. People already play 40k for the "space knight" element, so would fleshed out knightly orders in fantasy draw in new players? I'm curious to hear people's opinions.

NemoSD
23-09-2013, 23:18
White Scars are supposed to be Mongolians not Arabs... just sayin'

And no. We already have knights. They are in all the armies, and an all Knight army is the Brets.

Smooth Boy
23-09-2013, 23:19
Hmmm I say yes but I wouldn't want a direct port, I already play empire which is as close as you can get fluff wise. What I really want is a race that is as small and easy to transport as Space marines and not need a carry case which costs as much as my army.

NemoSD
23-09-2013, 23:22
Warriors of Chaos, they have an effective list at 2400 points that is 20 or so models. High Elves, I have 30 dudes on foot, 20 dudes on horse, and a handful of characters, and then so bolt throwers... about the same model count as my Dark Angels.

Mike3791
23-09-2013, 23:24
White Scars are supposed to be Mongolians not Arabs... just sayin'

And no. We already have knights. They are in all the armies, and an all Knight army is the Brets.

Hey Nemo, thank you for your vote. I realize that we have Brets, the poll question is more directed to more dynamic and diverse knight armies while leveraging the existing Space Marine brand that helped make 40k successful.

Mike3791
23-09-2013, 23:26
Also the poll is not about direct ports or low model count, its strictly about more knight armies.

Smooth Boy
23-09-2013, 23:29
Yeah I guess you're right Nemo, ultimately it's a better balance of power having most fantasy races on an even keel than the alternative of 40% Marines demography.

NemoSD
23-09-2013, 23:29
Hey Nemo, thank you for your vote. I realize that we have Brets, the poll question is more directed to more dynamic and diverse knight armies while leveraging the existing Space Marine brand that helped make 40k successful.

I think bringing a Space Marine styled army to Fantasy would do nothing for the brand. You'd have to do something nasty to the worlds history to make that work. Brets and the Empire have Knightly Orders in their fluff as a component of the whole, and I don't have a problem offering supplements to expand on those orders, but they should exist within the frame work of the Brets and or the Empire.

(Personally I'd Love to see a formation of Knights on foot in the Bret army book...)

Also, knightly orders as represented by the Space Marines are more akin to Crusading Orders. Knightly Orders were closer akin to clubs you are your buddy knights were in. Knights of the Garter, Rose, etc... they were normally created by famous knights/kings, and were a collection of ideals to live up to originally, but instead became part of the feudal pissing match that was medieval and renaissance hierarchy.

kilokalex
23-09-2013, 23:53
For me I will one day field lizardmen or skaven. Fantasy just doesn't have the fluff of the Horus Heresy. Shattered brotherhoods fighting for ten thousand years is sad and eloquent.

Scribe of Khorne
24-09-2013, 00:05
Warriors of Chaos, they have an effective list at 2400 points that is 20 or so models. High Elves, I have 30 dudes on foot, 20 dudes on horse, and a handful of characters, and then so bolt throwers... about the same model count as my Dark Angels.

What is this 20 model Chaos army. If its not full of finecast, or horrible sculpts I will buy this, instantly.

Theocracity
24-09-2013, 00:05
I think bringing a Space Marine styled army to Fantasy would do nothing for the brand. You'd have to do something nasty to the worlds history to make that work. Brets and the Empire have Knightly Orders in their fluff as a component of the whole, and I don't have a problem offering supplements to expand on those orders, but they should exist within the frame work of the Brets and or the Empire.

(Personally I'd Love to see a formation of Knights on foot in the Bret army book...)

Also, knightly orders as represented by the Space Marines are more akin to Crusading Orders. Knightly Orders were closer akin to clubs you are your buddy knights were in. Knights of the Garter, Rose, etc... they were normally created by famous knights/kings, and were a collection of ideals to live up to originally, but instead became part of the feudal pissing match that was medieval and renaissance hierarchy.

This.

In my mind, the closest you could get to Space Marines in Fantasy would be a refluffing of Bretonnians to make their heroes work equally well on foot and mounted. But even then you're hacking out so much of the Astartes background and sci-fi concepts that its really not worth calling them 'Space Marines in Fantasy.'

lordreaven448
24-09-2013, 00:10
What is this 20 model Chaos army. If its not full of finecast, or horrible sculpts I will buy this, instantly.
like 4 boxes of Warriors, 2 boxes of Knights, a Lord of your choice and a monster of your choice would be my guess

NemoSD
24-09-2013, 01:17
What is this 20 model Chaos army. If its not full of finecast, or horrible sculpts I will buy this, instantly.

I am not a Chaos player and don't know it off the back of my hand, but it always gets brought up whenever model count comes up. It involves spaming chariots.

Mortimer
24-09-2013, 01:23
So the Albion rules that already exist doesnt count?

and on the nose **** take of 40k

Losing Command
24-09-2013, 02:32
I would play fantasy if more ppl played it here and had the spare time and money to build a lizardmen army. Space marines won't change a thing about that ;)

lordreaven448
24-09-2013, 03:48
If Space marines got introduced to fantasy it would be only a matter of time untill Grey Knights pop up. Fantasy players already suffered an edition destroying army (Daemons) they certainly don't need another.

Oppressor
24-09-2013, 04:43
Lack of explanation of how rules would be handled forces my to vote 'not sure'.

Leaning heavily towards flat out 'no' regardles however.

Kakapo42
24-09-2013, 04:43
There really should be an option for 'I already play Fantasy as well'. Which I do.

I however voted for no. Not because I 'need space guns' (because as mentioned I already enjoy Fantasy, so said space guns are not essential for my enjoyment), but because such a thing could very likely be the death-knell for my Fantasy enjoyment. I like my WFB WITHOUT space marine substitutes, thankyouverymuch.

Tourniquet
24-09-2013, 07:44
No, I play 40k for the tanks, guns, and imagery.

WHFB already has knights

druchii
24-09-2013, 08:46
With this current set of rules for fantasy?

You couldn't PAY me to play it.

d

Metacarpi
24-09-2013, 08:57
With this current set of rules for fantasy?

You couldn't PAY me to play it.

d


What particularly about the current WFB ruleset bothers you?

I'm a fantasy player primarily, and find 8th ed to be one of the better editions for a long time.

Bugg13
24-09-2013, 09:31
No, space marines are for 40k, it'd be cheesy enough to kill fantasy forever if they were shoehorned into it. However, I'd go back to fantasy in an instant if they could only sort out the rules and give the dwarfs some loving. That and fix the dreaded 13th spell...

The Marshel
24-09-2013, 11:19
I think the poll is a bit biased in that the no option has "I need my space guns" added on. Fantasy "marines" not converting me to wfb has nothing to do with space guns. it seems a bit condescending to me.

sgtspiff
24-09-2013, 11:40
I don't think it's possible.
The SM are an elite strike force. Not a cultural concept. Culture in a SM force is just paint on the armour. In 40k you just make another planet up and say it's a jungle place. This would translate to very large fortresses or cities in fantasy. There wouldnt be any logic in having human cities all over the place. A knightly strike force running around in the Bad Lands wouldnt survive for long.

Ruleswise I just can't see how it's done.

Would I start play fantasy if GW actually made it? No I would start playing if I found players in my area.

totgeboren
24-09-2013, 11:45
I don't fully understand the poll I think? Is the idea that we should have rules to use SM models in whfb? Or is the idea that we should get background detailing Knightly Orders that use the same colour scheme and tactics as known SM chapters?
I think bolters and plasmacannons would be less than fun to face using a fantasy army, as they should just make a mess of everything.
And if it is just variant lists for Brettonians... well, I don't have a Bret army now, and I don't think I would get one even if they launched lots of extra lists for them in the future.

IcedCrow
24-09-2013, 12:12
Please no. We dont need a race in fantasy that 75% of the player base plays. I like the diversity in armies in fantasy.

Banville
24-09-2013, 12:52
Dear god in heaven. No. Just no.

There are already knights in Fantasy. Lots and lots of them. In various colours. With various weaponry.

Litcheur
24-09-2013, 14:17
If GW transfered all the Space Marine chapters into Fantasy
No. Just NO.

I play both games, and enjoy both, but the lack of that Space Marine thing is one of the best things about Fantasy.

WHFB doesn't need an army played by 75% of the players, that all look the same, play the same and are made of various kind of superheroic Mary Sues in different flavours and colors.

TheDungen
24-09-2013, 16:08
I'm not a 40k only player but I'd stop playing fantasy if that happened.

Charistoph
24-09-2013, 18:11
I put in as I'm not sure. It largely depends on the rules, the fluff, and the models. If they are Warrior Daemons of 7th, then no. But I wouldn't mind a Warriors of Order army. The Warriors of Chaos Army just doesn't work for me, model-wise (but the Beastmen do).

Lord Damocles
24-09-2013, 19:01
The reason(s) I don't play Fantasy isn't that I'm too in love with my Spez Mureenz (or that I just want guns).

beerbeard
24-09-2013, 19:21
Confusing thread. I'm sure where I play, our thriving and growing Fantasy community would never allow Space Marines in. As for more Knightly armies, you can make pure cavalry lists in Empire and High Elves that I know of, and if you count wheels then WoC too.

As for reasons to play Fantasy, the quality and variety of the models in Fantasy is far superior to what they are bringing out for 40k. I can't think of a single 40k unit model that is as cool looking, fun to put together, and rewarding to paint up as the High Elf Dragon Princes of Caledor. And that is just one, there about 4-5 in the High Elf army alone. So there's that. The 8th rules cause some people to rage and some people to emote, so what is the difference between that and 6th 40k? I hate the vehicle rules in 6th, what they did to my beloved Leman Russ, all the cover ignoring BS that is coming out, etc. But editions come and editions go, so why stop playing?

I really and truly believe, right now, that Fantasy is just as good a game with more variety of interesting armies, better models, and an equally compelling story line. If no one in your area is playing, buy two small armies and proselytize. Our group, based in one store, has grown from about 6 to 20+ in two years, just by playing games and getting people interested.

Tae
24-09-2013, 20:15
What is this 20 model Chaos army. If its not full of finecast, or horrible sculpts I will buy this, instantly.

Just an example for 2k:

Daemon Prince
4 x Nurgle Chariots
2 x 5 man Nurgle Knights
1 x Chimera
1 x Mutalith

17 models

druchii
24-09-2013, 21:03
What particularly about the current WFB ruleset bothers you?

I'm a fantasy player primarily, and find 8th ed to be one of the better editions for a long time.

My reasons for disliking(intensely) fantasy 8th edition are well documented and thorough, and something that I will not pollute this thread with.

Suffice to say I feel like my time is better spent doing other things.

d

Nymie_the_Pooh
24-09-2013, 21:14
I already play Fantasy. I voted if the rules were fun then I'd play it. This response is in the same spirit of how many people will someday play Spearhead however. I would rather they didn't, but I'd play a couple of games because I'd want to see for myself what they did with it. Most of the 40K references have been retconned out of Fantasy with the Albion campaign bringing 40K back in a little bit since then. I don't think Space Marines as they stand now really fit Fantasy.

Gurrfang
24-09-2013, 21:17
Most people don't want to play such a small model count army as it most likely won't have many wounds. A failed save is a failed save, regardless if combat effectiveness. Ask any chaos plate how they're daemon price likes alert like cannons or stone throwers!

That said, small count armies of dark elves have nemesis to be surprisingly effective.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997R using Tapatalk 2

lordreaven448
24-09-2013, 21:20
The reason(s) I don't play Fantasy isn't that I'm too in love with my Spez Mureenz (or that I just want guns).
Empire has LOTS of guns ;)

Torga_DW
24-09-2013, 21:30
The rhyme of the ultra-mariners? Somebody should write a poem about that. :)

gwarsh41
24-09-2013, 21:33
Nope, I play daemons, my army already exists in fantasy. Space wolves are my SM chapter of choice, and Dwaves exist in fantasy, which I love. I still don't play fantasy, science fiction is just cooler to me. Though I read a bunch of the fantasy books.

Radium
24-09-2013, 21:43
So.... because I play 40k I like marines and space guns? Nope.

I still wouldn't play fantasy though, I really can't stand the blocks of infantry (or the current sculpting style for that matter).

MajorWesJanson
24-09-2013, 22:13
No. I like the rules for 40K, and how it feels like actually leading a medium to large force of troops, where every model potentially matters, rather than Fantasy which feels more like a skirmish level game- effectively 5-10 very large models with many attacks and wounds, where most models in a unit don't feel like troops, but mere wound and attack counters. Fantasy just feels smaller scale, and feels like less value for the money on the model front.

Theolla
25-09-2013, 23:46
For me, no, it wouldn't get me info Fantasy. I don't really like the whole rank and file movement system that most units use, and the background doesn't really grab me. I'm already saturated with fantasy settings, but it feels like there are fewer prominent sci-fi settings out there.

DoctorTom
26-09-2013, 21:09
Could we model a mounted unit by modelling a Space Marine hitting 2 coconuts together?

Sir Didymus
26-09-2013, 21:41
You need a poll option:

"We don't need no more stinkin' mahreenz"

Mortimer
26-09-2013, 21:49
Could we model a mounted unit by modelling a Space Marine hitting 2 coconuts together?
maybe a Watcher In The Dark would do?

brionl
27-09-2013, 17:27
Could we model a mounted unit by modelling a Space Marine hitting 2 coconuts together?

ITYM a Servitor following the "Knight".

Anyway, if I ever get my Skaven army somewhere near a state of completion, that's what I'll be using. And it's not just because of the 13th Spell and Hell Pit Abominations. I've been a Skaven fan since the early 90s. Since I was born really, I was born in the Year of the Rat. Metal Yang Rat even.

Gossipmeng
27-09-2013, 18:17
The space marine chapters are appealing because they are in power armour with big guns. Fantasy knights with the same chapter characteristics lose the most appealing factor.

So no, I need me some space guns on them marines.

Hrw-Amen
27-09-2013, 20:42
Maybe if the actual marines made an appearance and were called knights, otherwise no way, we need tanks and guns. If a Grey Knights Strike cruiser entered into orbit around the WFB planet that could make for a cool and interesting scenario. I guess if someone could put together some rules for using all those strange Old One relics lying around in Lustrian temples, perhaps something like a decent battle could be had?

But as far as I know despite initial hopes and desires GW have ruled that the WFB Planet is not in the same universe as W40K. Sucks really, at least i think so.

By the way, does anyone know the name of the WFB planet, I don't recall seeing it named anywhere beyond being the WFB planet?

brionl
28-09-2013, 18:17
Oh, and your poll needs an option for "No, they've already got Empire"

The Emperor
28-09-2013, 18:46
Oh, and your poll needs an option for "No, they've already got Empire"

Or, "No, they've already got Bretonnia."

God, what I wouldn't give for Bretonnia to be even a fraction as popular as Space Marines. Then maybe we wouldn't have to use an army book which'll be turning 10-years-old in five months.

Thrax
28-09-2013, 19:06
Any "advantage" in marketing would be more than offset by the distasteful clash of genres. I just don't see the point, especially if one handicaps the space marines in order to shoehorn them into the fantasy setting.

When I originally saw the title to this thread I assumed it was an attempt to hybridize the rules in order to allow game play between the two games, which might be interesting to some degree. Just turning space marines into heavy infantry/cavalry does a disservice to both fantasy and the space marine brand.

Marshal_Loss
28-09-2013, 19:34
No, the Knightly Orders are enough already and there are enough similarities between the two franchises. 40k players would not move to WFB because of this, the game itself is very different.