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View Full Version : GF wants to play WHFB, some advise would be handy



Tourniquet
25-09-2013, 09:38
Hi Folks,

I recently got back into 40k, and, upon a visit to a GW my gf fell in love with some of the WHFB models. She already plays D&D, MTG and other such games so has the general gist of tactics and will get on great.

The issue is I have no idea what WHFB is like.
She really likes the look of the high elves, and, it helps that they are in the Starter box. But I wanted to know what are they like as an army for a complete newbie to tabletop games? Is WHFB hard to learn? And is the Starter box (the one with rules and skaven) a good start point to an army, or would she be better buying the battalion/individual units?

Also I always liked how the Lizardmen and Dark Elves looked 9I know DE are having a release soon, so its hard to gauge with them) but how are these as an opposing army for high elves?


Thanks for your time guys!

Vexare
25-09-2013, 10:01
Now, I don't have a lot of gaming experience with high elves, but I do know that they can be awesome on the table, and that starter box contains some nice as hell model and that all of them have potential in a HE army, apart from the prince on the monster.. But that is because I really don't like heroes on monsters, since they almost always gets blown to pieces by enemy cannons.. And regarding lizards and dark elves, I have little knowledge about the new lizards, and as you said, the DE gets new stuff next monthish, so no idea there either..

Oogie boogie boss
25-09-2013, 10:06
First off, awesome that your GF wants to get in to fantasy. That is the dream. Secondly, if you already play 40k, then I doubt fantasy will be too hard to pick up. It is very different, and there'll be a lot of things to get used to, but I'm sure you'll both get the hang of it before too long.

As for what army, The starter box is a good place to begin, but only if you think you might want to play Skaven. My advise is look at all the armies, go through the different model ranges and unit options of the GW site, and have a look on here and other forums for info on play style before you decide. The most important thing is that your army has models you like and enjoy painting, and plays in a way you find fun.

If you like DE fluff then perhaps when the new release comes out a few core units and a character, or even a Battalion box, would be a good way to go. But wait until you've seen the model range first. Narratively though, if you GF wants to do HE, then DE would make a degree of sense.

Either way, good luck and have fun!

Sirius
25-09-2013, 10:29
Similar thing happened to me earlier in the year, with my wife regarding the High Elf models, and she's been collecting them ever since, so hopefully I can share a few pieces of advice from our experiences.

First off, Island of blood is an amazing purchase, with a few provisions.
Firstly, so long as you don't mind using Ebay to discard the things you don't want, or need, it's tremendous value for money.
Secondly - you get a copy of the rulebook, which is always handy.
Thirdly, you get a nice large assortment of models to use initially, so you can kind of get the feel for how you like to play. Admittedly the same is true of the batallion, but that costs more, and doesn't provide you with an immediate army to play against.
Fourthly, provided you don't mind proxying units, (swordmasters for Pheonix guard, say, or the griffon for a great eagle) the wealth of models you get will allow her to see what army style she likes, for a lot less of an investment than other options.



I would personally advise against the battalion. You get a good assortment of units in it, to be sure, but most of the models and sculpts are very, very old, and suffer from what I like to call "money hands". It probably wont be as apparent at first, but the miniatures are showing their age in comparison to the newer sculpts (such as the Island of blood)

If you can see yourself enjoying the Skaven Army (as I have) the Island of blood is a terrific investment. And if you cant bring yourself to start Skaven alongside the Mrs High Elves' - then just pop them on Ebay, and you end up getting about half of the cost of the boxed set back.


As for learning the game - The fact that she has a knowledge of all things geeky (RPG's and Magic the gathering, etc.) Should help. It is by no means a straight conversion, but I've always found that teaching people who have dabbled in that sort of stuff, is far easier than people who are entirely new... mostly because they have a knack for the core fundamentals (Turn based mechanics, Order of actions etc.)

What it's Like? It's more about the big picture than 40k. I always find that the individual models matter more in 40k, whereas in Fantasy it's more like a grand plan - a whole army working together. Until my wife got into it, I'd kind of phased Fantasy out of my usual set of games (I hadn't played since 6th Edition, despite keeping vaguely aware of the rules and changes) However having regular games has completely rekindled my enthusiasm for it - It really is a fantastic, tactical game.

As for balance between the Armies - I find High elves are pretty darn strong, but the style you enjoy playing (shooting, movement, magic, or combat) very much dictates the style of army you will play.
Dark Elves have just been re-done, so I'm not sure how they're going to fare, balance-wise. From the initial rumours, they seem to have a few rules aimed at combatting high elves though, so may end up being a hard match up...
Lizardmen are also fairly new, so I'm not sure how they've effected the meta just yet. My initial thoughts are that they were comparable to High elves. Better magic(though costing more points), and stronger combat, but worse shooting and less finesse with movement.

And I'll add in Skaven too (as I play them, and you get them with the starter box) - They match up fairly well to the High Elves. Both armies seem to fare well against each other. Skaven have a few power-builds that are just plain unfun to play against, or with... so as long as you steer clear of those, they're a pretty even match up :)

Good luck!

Romark
25-09-2013, 10:46
To get an idea, what do you play in 40k? If you play an elite army, Skaven may not be the one for you... Though i love Skaven, they are amazingly characterful, they are a 'Strength in numbers' army.

Yowzo
25-09-2013, 11:18
Curious, I think just about every girl I've met who was into fantasy played high elves as their main or only army.

Only exceptions were a vampire counts and another who played Slaanesh and Tzeentch heavy daemons.

Tourniquet
25-09-2013, 11:24
Thanks for the fast feedback folks!

Awesome, sounds like HE is the right choice for her :)

I play Eldar in 40k, so a highly specialized army :p But I have always enjoyed the looks of DE (pending on new models now) and Lizardmen

Thanks again folks :)

Urgat
25-09-2013, 11:42
Her... have her play a few games first. My g/f showed the same interest, even bought a few dryads, and turns out she disliked the game a lot. And you know what? That was good news, because for some reason she was such a sore loser, complaining at every little thing like being flanked (and yet I explained everything at lenghts so she'd get it), that it's just as well she didn't catch the bug :p It just wasn't for her. Please note there's also the very real possibility that she's not really interested, and just wants to be nice to you, which is a wrong reason to want to start WFB. Maybe she'll be a genuine player, but better check all that first.

Romark
25-09-2013, 11:46
Thanks for the fast feedback folks!

Awesome, sounds like HE is the right choice for her :)

I play Eldar in 40k, so a highly specialized army :p But I have always enjoyed the looks of DE (pending on new models now) and Lizardmen

Thanks again folks :)

Have a look on this thread:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?380158-Dark-Elves-coming-in-October

Pictures of Octobers Dark Elf release come in around page 65 (i think) and i am HYPED for it! Dark Elves vs High Elves is a classic as well! There are other 'Elites' you could look at as well. Do you like horses? :p

Tourniquet
25-09-2013, 14:49
Her... have her play a few games first. My g/f showed the same interest, even bought a few dryads, and turns out she disliked the game a lot. And you know what? That was good news, because for some reason she was such a sore loser, complaining at every little thing like being flanked (and yet I explained everything at lenghts so she'd get it), that it's just as well she didn't catch the bug :p It just wasn't for her. Please note there's also the very real possibility that she's not really interested, and just wants to be nice to you, which is a wrong reason to want to start WFB. Maybe she'll be a genuine player, but better check all that first.

Thanks for the feedback. We actually plan to go play a game next Wednesday :)
She isnt the type to take fake interest in something just because I enjoy it. She leads a very nerdy life and enjoys painting and board games/strategy pc games (thrashes me hard at Age of Empires and Might and Magic every time >.>) and inst a sore loser (her level 7 druid died this week in D&D, she laughed off the death and started planning her new toon!)

We def's plan to play a game before buying stuff first though!

Litcheur
25-09-2013, 16:14
She really likes the look of the high elves, and, it helps that they are in the Starter box. But I wanted to know what are they like as an army for a complete newbie to tabletop games?
They are elves : they can do everything and be quite brutal in every aspect of the game. But they are squishy.



Is WHFB hard to learn?
It's more streamlined and well though than 40k, and probably easier to learn.

For example, most WHFB weapons are standard. Almost all of them, in fact. It's not like 40k, where the exact same weapon can be called Fusion Pistol, Inferno Pistol, Infernus Pistol, or where you have 6-7 pages of wargear for every ******** codex. A bow is a bow, 24" range, S3, period. Most magic items are standard too.

There are less special rules, and most of them are self explanatory : Always Strike First, Always Strike Last, Immune to Psychology, Shoot or Move and so on. Movement rates are indicated too, a beginner doesn't have to constantly switch between the army book and the rules book to double check everything.


And is the Starter box (the one with rules and skaven) a good start point to an army, or would she be better buying the battalion/individual units?
The starter box is a good deal if you plan to use one or both of its armies.


Also I always liked how the Lizardmen and Dark Elves looked 9I know DE are having a release soon, so its hard to gauge with them) but how are these as an opposing army for high elves?
An Elves versus Elves fight often ends in a bloodbath, since they can deal a great amount of damage and are not that resilient. :D

Morathi's Darkest Sin
25-09-2013, 16:27
Druchii verses the Asur (thats Dark Elves and High Elves in their own tongue) is for many a classic match up, just because of the eons of bad blood between them. I noted she is a D&D fan, thus assume you are as well and that would lead me to further assume you both like a narrative in your gaming. Well you can't get much of a better one regarding these two races. With the background in the High Elf book and the soon to be released Dark Elf book (two weeks saturday) you will find a wealth of reasons for your armies to clash.

On top of the great narrative, the armies share a similar style (elite armies) and the same flaw (low toughness) so you will see a quite bloody encounter each time you play, making for more enjoyable games. With certain match ups you'd risk a situation not unlike what my wife and I had a few years ago where my army totally outclassed hers to the point we knew she needed great luck and I would need bad luck for to have any chance of victory, which can after a while tarnish the fun. It partially led to us dumping Warhammer for two years, but we are back in again now with armies on a much more equal footing. (It was Empire and Chaos Warriors, my Empire is getting sidelined for Druchii from next month though.)

In general my advice would be High v's Dark Elves, although I am quite biased in that regard, If I could somehow convince my other half to take on High Elves I would, but alas she cannot stand their pointy helms. :)

Tourniquet
25-09-2013, 16:50
Awesome, thanks for all the input folks!

The bearded one
25-09-2013, 20:24
Marry her and never let her go, that's my advice.




.. I'm sorry, did I type that out loud?

Tourniquet
26-09-2013, 01:02
Marry her and never let her go, that's my advice.

.. I'm sorry, did I type that out loud?

hahahaha best reply yet

NemoSD
26-09-2013, 01:26
High Elves are not an easy army to play. That being said, they, like the Empire, have a lot of viable builds, and as such if you are not sure where you will go in the future, you likely wont waste money on High Elves because of the number of possible builds. They do massed infantry okish. (They lack the huge numbers, but make up for in some very good heavy infantry choices.) They do a decent job at cavalry, and they are amazing MSU once you get more experience on how the army works.

They can also do a nearly all flying army which is pretty cool, but gimmicky.

The High Elf models are amazing, even our dorky Spearmen are nice.

NemoSD
26-09-2013, 01:27
Druchii verses the Asur (thats Dark Elves and High Elves in their own tongue) is for many a classic match up, just because of the eons of bad blood between them. I noted she is a D&D fan, thus assume you are as well and that would lead me to further assume you both like a narrative in your gaming. Well you can't get much of a better one regarding these two races. With the background in the High Elf book and the soon to be released Dark Elf book (two weeks saturday) you will find a wealth of reasons for your armies to clash.

On top of the great narrative, the armies share a similar style (elite armies) and the same flaw (low toughness) so you will see a quite bloody encounter each time you play, making for more enjoyable games. With certain match ups you'd risk a situation not unlike what my wife and I had a few years ago where my army totally outclassed hers to the point we knew she needed great luck and I would need bad luck for to have any chance of victory, which can after a while tarnish the fun. It partially led to us dumping Warhammer for two years, but we are back in again now with armies on a much more equal footing. (It was Empire and Chaos Warriors, my Empire is getting sidelined for Druchii from next month though.)

In general my advice would be High v's Dark Elves, although I am quite biased in that regard, If I could somehow convince my other half to take on High Elves I would, but alas she cannot stand their pointy helms. :)

Just want to point out, High Elves are better.... Dark Elves may win the battles, but they always lose the war! :-p

Nymie_the_Pooh
26-09-2013, 03:22
There is some great advice here so I won't repeat it. I just wanted to add that it might be worth it to find somebody that either already plays Skaven or wants to pick them up to go half in on the starter and pick up two instead of just the one. It's worth doubling up on all the models aside from the hero on the gryphon which can be converted into an eagle if you have the inclination so having two can still work there. Both players would get a copy of the mini rulebook. She would have larger units which she would likely have bought more of the models to bulk them out with later anyway. You don't have to worry about piecing out the Skaven bits to resell. Of course, this is dependent on if you know somebody already that wants more Skaven or is looking to get into Skaven. If you are fine with reselling the Skaven bits, I think doubling up is still a good way to start.

march10k
26-09-2013, 03:49
But that is because I really don't like heroes on monsters, since they almost always gets blown to pieces by enemy cannons..

They don't call it whineseer for nothing...exactly how many armies even have access to cannons? Off the top of my head, three. Empire, OK, and Stunties. How does that translate into "almost always get blown to pieces by enemy cannons?"

High Elves are a hammer in an expensive eggshell. Low S/T, low armor, but they're going to hit you first, and they're not going to miss. Done right, they can put enough hits on you to generate enough wounds to overcome any armor save before you get to hit them back. People like to talk about a block of spears ten wide and five deep where every single model potentially fights. That way lies defeat. better to do 7x4. All 28 models will fight, and the unit costs roughly half as much. For a few points more than the mortar target of (your own) doom, you get two sensible blocks that are individually 90% as scary as the one big block. HE are so expensive per model that the 100-ear block is AYEIOB, and AYEIOB with T3 and a 5+ save is just plain dumb. JMHO, YMMV.

The bearded one
26-09-2013, 04:08
They don't call it whineseer for nothing...exactly how many armies even have access to cannons? Off the top of my head, three. Empire, OK, and Stunties.

Daemons have the skullcannon since their recent armybook, and the skaven warplightning cannon fires like a cannon with a template at the end, but luckily its strength is variable based on the artillery dice (so roughly a 50/50 chance of being a danger or not, as you can generally disregard the misfire, str2 and str4 rolls, except maybe the squishy elf on top ;) )

kylek2235
26-09-2013, 05:15
By no means is this an adequate sample size, but here is the sum total of armies/interests that my wife and my friend's wives have amassed, so tell me if you see a pattern.
Wife1: Tomb Kings then Wood Elves, then High Elves
Wife2: Dark Elves
Wife3: Wood Elves, Goblins, Then Slanneshi Daemons
Wife4: Slanneshi Daemons
Wife5: Wood Elves, Orcs&Goblins

When each of them started or thought about starting to play, I gave the same advice I've given to every person I've brought into the game: Go with the army that looks the most ascetically pleasing. If you play for awhile and it doesn't play the way you want, at least you have an army that looks great. If you buy an army that someone says fits your style of play (eventhough you don't know how to play or even know what style of play you prefer) and the army looks bad and it turns out you don't like playing that way, you're stuck with an army that looks bad (to you) and you don't like playing it. Fluff and ascetics. The odd person can power game their way through this phase, most can't.

As far as what you want to get: Buy a couple of Isle of Bloods, sell of the Skaven half and a book and recoup that money. Pick up the odd unit types you like after that. Frequently I recommend the army boxes, but in the case of the High Elves I don't. I'm not sold on the practicality on either the Spearelves or Silverhelms and the models are awful looking. On the other hand, it does complement the Isle of Blood Boxes rather nicely for a well rounded core heavy army. Not necessarily a good army, but a well rounded one.

As far as opposing armies, if the Dark Elf book turns out to be a solid balanced book, both should work fine.

Nymie_the_Pooh
26-09-2013, 07:54
My current Greenskins army was started by my fifty four year old roommate a decade ago. I introduced her to Blood Bowl where she latched onto the Orcs like a lamprey. She has never considered another army since then. She doesn't play often, and while I buy most of the models for the army, paint it, and am using it in a league, it is still technically her army. She might have gone with some flavour of Elves instead if she had some interest in Fantasy without playing Blood Bowl first.