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Perth
26-09-2013, 04:27
Just curious as to what you all thought the different Tactics should be ranked. For me it's this...


1: White Scars (w/ Khan) Bikers
2: Drop Salamanders (w/ Vulkan)
3: Iron Hands Gunline
4: Imperial Fists Tac Rush/Gunline
5: Ultramarines (Tig might boost these guys higher, yet to see)
6: Black Templars
7: Ravenguard

CULCHAIN
26-09-2013, 04:37
You should put up a poll and be careful not to burn your foot. And I vote iron hands.

Bonzai
26-09-2013, 05:44
My rankings? Assuming you build around them?

1. White Scars: no terrain tests, +1 jink, hit & run, and scout all on a bike platform? Yes please! Plus I can spam special weapons in the bike squads? To me this is as strong as it gets in the new dex. Speed and mobility, hard to lock up in assault, and a range of anti horde, armor, and elite infantry guns to chose from? Bike lists have never been stronger.

2. Iron Hands: this is the best passive chapter tactics. You don't really have to plan around it. Though the more vehicles the better. I am sure that they will get some love in a supplement too.

3. Raven Guard: army wide scout and stealth 1st turn? How many stearn guard and devastators can I sneak in to range? Jump pack movement on the move and assault is also deceptively strong. Especially with the FW character that makes assault marines troops. Shrike is also great, as he can set up turn 1 charges if you go second.

4. Salamanders: lost a step in this edition, but still strong. Can't twin link flamers on vehicles and walkers now, and instead of MC thunder hammers its a weapon on all characters. Vulkan gives the twin linked meltas that they had last edition. Ultimately they still play close to the same, which is a good thing.

5. Imperial fists: decent passives, though bolter drill will see the most use.

6. Ultramarines: great tactical flexability. Only drawback is that its single use unless you take Calgar.

7. Black Templars: not weak by any means, but some one had to be last.

Polaria
26-09-2013, 06:11
3. Raven Guard: army wide scout and stealth 1st turn? How many stearn guard and devastators can I sneak in to range?

Except its not army-wide by any means. The ONLY units that actually get Scout and 1st Turn stealth are:

Techmarine, Tactical Squad, Devastator Squad, Sternguard Squad and Scouts (who already have it)

Vanguard Veterans and Assault Squads get it IF they don't have Jump Packs

Chapter Masters, Captains, Librarians, Honor Guard and Commands Squads only get it IF they don't take Jump Pack, Terminator Armour or Bikes.

That is hardly "army wide".

benogham
26-09-2013, 10:18
scouts don't have an inbuilt stealth. Their camo cloack give them +1 cover, not stealth. Therefore, it works for them too.

Yvain
26-09-2013, 13:14
What is so good about Shrike? He is expensive and buffs only one unit. Infiltrate isn't that great because you can't first turn assault so being closer doesn't really help.

Stealth is good I suppose, but hardly worth the points it costs in my opinion. Is there something I am not seeing?

MagicHat
26-09-2013, 13:17
What is so good about Shrike? He is expensive and buffs only one unit. Infiltrate isn't that great because you can't first turn assault so being closer doesn't really help.

Stealth is good I suppose, but hardly worth the points it costs in my opinion. Is there something I am not seeing?

You can assault when infiltrating if you go second, so go behind some LoS blocking terrain, jump 12" assault with jump packs. Still not worth it IMO.

Grit
26-09-2013, 14:25
never mind,found it.

facepalm
26-09-2013, 19:21
The IF CT is over rated in my opinion, Bolter drill sounds awesome until you actually look at at and do a little bit of maths, per 100 bolter shots (and i reckon 100 is probably a decent guess at how many bolter shots you actualy get in the average game) you kill 1.9 extra MEQs or 7.4 GEQs. Over the course of a game that bolter drill has added 30-50 extra points in kills, is that really THAT impressive when you think about what others get? With IH you only need to pass 3 feel no pain saves over the whole game an you've saved more points from dying than you will get extra kills from.

With tank hunters for devs and centurions well its kind of a double edged sword here yes if you just take normal devs then you've made a good anti tank squad a bit better at what they could already do pretty well but i also encourages you to take lascannon/ML centurions and while tank hunters makes them better at something they are already very good at there really a pretty overpriced unit. If i have to face a 300 point 3 man squad of these then i'm pretty sure i'm more likely to win then if those points were spent in something else.

Inquisitor Shego
26-09-2013, 19:29
The IF CT is over rated in my opinion, Bolter drill sounds awesome until you actually look at at and do a little bit of maths, per 100 bolter shots (and i reckon 100 is probably a decent guess at how many bolter shots you actualy get in the average game) you kill 1.9 extra MEQs or 7.4 GEQs. Over the course of a game that bolter drill has added 30-50 extra points in kills, is that really THAT impressive when you think about what others get? With IH you only need to pass 3 feel no pain saves over the whole game an you've saved more points from dying than you will get extra kills from.

Scares the thongs off of my Daemonettes though. I've seen this drill in action, and with Marines becoming more cheap and plentiful, plus the ability working in Overwatch, it's just enough to make me nervous. It feels like every tactical has suddenly gained strafing run, what with the 2's being the only true miss. It really helps capture the feel of an Imperial Fist (or Crimson in the case of my room mate) bastion of power armour.

corps
26-09-2013, 19:39
Shrike is not a chapter tatic by definition. Why including it? it s not a attack, just curiosity.

A.T.
26-09-2013, 19:48
Stealth is good I suppose, but hardly worth the points it costs in my opinion. Is there something I am not seeing?What points cost?
Don't sniff at the scout move either - 5 models in a scouting transport with two special weapons is one of the stronger elements of the sisters list and raven guard get it as a fringe benefit, cheaper too.



Shrike is not a chapter tatic by definition. Why including it? it s not a attack, just curiosity.As characters are now locked to chapter tactics they are essentially part of the package, as are librarians/crusaders.

Korvydae is an interesting one in particular - a jump pack captain with a thunderhammer, artificier armour, hit and run, and assault squads as troops (and all for 5pts less than his gear would cost from the codex)

Mandragola
26-09-2013, 20:04
Indeed. This is basically a comparison of the different chapters, not the different chapter tactics. Which is fine.

Personally I'm not sure apart from that white scars seem to be best, especially with khan. It kind of remains to be seen though. Bikes have this issue that they are quite difficult for most people to deal with, but some people just massacre them. They do have scout shenanigans with Khan that will be a huge benefit in-game. Most armies with lots of scouting, like say daemons, are trying to get into combat, which they cannot if they scout. White scars only need to get into grav gun range, and will do so easily.

I agree with the general consensus that ravenguard are weak. I personally don't much like iron hands because I don't like passive bonuses and I think it often won't make any difference at all unless you take loads of vehicles, which I prefer not to do. Crimson fists might make an effective package with sternguard and devastators. Bolter drill is largely irrelevant because bolters are already largely irrelevant.

Black Templars are interesting. Their bonus in challenges is a big deal. Losing librarians but gaining a substantially better troop option is interesting, and they are still able to take stuff like bikers with grav guns, and even make them troops too.

Salamanders feel a bit last edition to me. Flamers and meltas are of limited use against Eldar and Tau and your characters won't need the help in cc, if they can get there. Not at all sure about ultramarines, as it seems difficult to build an army to maximise the benefit. You'll often want all the buffs at the same time, somewhere around turn 2 when everyone gets in range, and you can't do that.

Bonzai
27-09-2013, 00:22
Scares the thongs off of my Daemonettes though.

Pics? Suddenly I have the urge to watch the Trials of Draigo again. Excuse me.

Camman1984
27-09-2013, 08:26
The access to special characters makes a big difference in chapter tactics power levels, for example non ultramarines get stadard librarians where as ultras get tigurius who has +1 ML, access to divination, rerolls to choosing powers and reroll psychic tests. He is basically librarian +4!! That is a huge advantage if you want to field a librarian.

Iron hands get no characters at the moment and some like shrike are of questionable value.

TheDoctor
28-09-2013, 00:05
Pics? Suddenly I have the urge to watch the Trials of Draigo again. Excuse me.

Why do you want warp dust? Everyone knows only heretics snort that stuff...


Salamanders feel a bit last edition to me. Flamers and meltas are of limited use against Eldar and Tau and your characters won't need the help in cc, if they can get there. Not at all sure about ultramarines, as it seems difficult to build an army to maximise the benefit. You'll often want all the buffs at the same time, somewhere around turn 2 when everyone gets in range, and you can't do that.

I respectfully disagree. A drop pod Salamanders army still seems as potent as ever. And you noted positively in the part I edited out about White Scars with Grav Guns. However, it seems like a podding Salamander list would be better against Eldar/Tau rather than Grav Guns.

Gonna go into anecdotal evidence here, but as an Eldar player, I would rather face white scars with grav guns rather than salamanders with flamers.

Also, I was playing at ATC with my mechdar list against a Tau/Eldar list, and I had to concede with like 6 models left on Turn 2. Even using the best deployment/hiding options I could think of, quite literally half my army was blown apart turn 1 (also, the other guy had turn 1). I would have much rather had a full reserve army against that style of list, rather than deploy units, watch him roll dice, and then pick up my units.

Inquisitor Shego
28-09-2013, 08:14
Whoa seriously. Tau are that good? What's the scariest things about them?

Freman Bloodglaive
28-09-2013, 23:32
They have guns, big guns, and they know how to use them.