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YourChapterMaster
29-09-2013, 04:30
Recently bought 4 boxes of the bad boys to run a devastator cohort, but was thinking of incorporating a squad for regular play. I have been having a tough time finding a load out that works. To me it seems like a no brainer to give the sgt lascanon/missiles since he can split fire and has night fighter. The other 2 weapons systems are heavy/regular infantry duty so filling out the rest of the squad with that makes sense to me. I was thinking vet sgt with omniscope, lascanon and missiles. 2 with grav cannon with amp with hurricane bolters, 3 with heavy bolters and hurricane bolters. This gives you split fire for tank duty and the other 5 can effectively engage any infantry heavy or light without people completely useless against either one. I do run ultramarines so they will definitely be running with Tigarius. Hopefully pulling the 4+ invo and perfect timing powers in divi nations which isn't hard to do. Kind of a deathstar but could be powerful. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Mortimer
29-09-2013, 04:51
Grav cannons a plenty in a LR is a fun combo.

it is hard to take out a LR in most armies, and when the Centies get out the 24" range of the grav isnt that much of a problem from mid table

plus sticking Chronus on the LR is even funnier.

The Marshel
29-09-2013, 05:15
Grav Cannons are actually very effective tank killers. between the number of shots you pile on and re-rolling the pen rolls, getting those 6's is pretty easy. the rate at which they can strip away hull points is terrifying

YourChapterMaster
29-09-2013, 05:21
Yea that would give the grav cannons a chance at some good targets without getting mowed down. I still am on the fence about a solid load out because not really many battle reports with the centurions in them yet. I am hesitant to run all grav cannons since my meta has a abundance of xenos players making them seem less attractive but not useless. The hull points stripping is a bonus that can make the grav cannons a better choice like you said.

YourChapterMaster
29-09-2013, 05:30
Is the consensus running 3 in a squad or more? I was thinking Tigarius would make running 5 for even 6 more attractive. Even 2 three man squad with scopes all lascanon and missiles on a sky shield seems like a win to me. Firing at 4 different targets a turn with the 4+ invo.

The Emperor
29-09-2013, 06:25
What's the general consensus on what effect Grav weapons have on already immobilized vehicles? Is it only 1 Hull Point or does the Grav weapon inflict 2 Hull Points at that point?

YourChapterMaster
29-09-2013, 07:34
From what I understand the first 6 will immobilize the vehicle and take a hull point, every 6 after the first strips a additional hull point with no added effect. If it's already immobilized then I would guess it just strips a hull point since it's immobilized.

The Marshel
29-09-2013, 09:14
yes, but an additional immobilized result causes another hull point to be lost. There is a bit of argument over it, but imo, given the grav weapon rules use the term "suffer an immobilized result" and the vehicle rules say "any immobilize results" in regards to taking additional immobilized results, you would strip two hull points off of an immobilized vehicle. 1 for rolling the 6, and one for causing another immobilized result

YourChapterMaster
29-09-2013, 18:09
The way I have read the rule was first 6 is the immobile, and every 6 after is just another hull points. 2 for the second one seems just kind of weird to me. All this being if it already wasn't immobilized.

Dwane Diblie
30-09-2013, 03:09
Firstly my recommendation on the unit.
Sgt. Las ML Omni
2x Grav ML
3x TLHB ML
Its 50 points more but it can now deal with anything anywhere on the table. Hurricane bolters are interesting but the difference in range compared to the ML means you are going to want to constantly be close to the enemy and Assault is not your friend with this unit. Personally I also have a Tau Crisis Commander in the unit with Hit and Run, unit Ignore Cover, 4++, FNP and 4++ Drones. This makes the unit insanely powerful.

As for the Grav vs Vehicles. The FAQ states that if the unit suffers a result from the damage chart that is no a penetrating or glancing hit (ie Grav) then it does not loose a hull point for the damage. This is different to loosing an additional hull point for already being Immobilised. If a unit of Grav Weapons fires at a vehicle then every 6 will equal 1 Hull point unless it was already immobilised befor the shot was taken in which case every 6 does one hull point and each Immobilised result does one hull point. Also note that the FAQ state that the damage hull point is not applied unless it is from a Glance, Pen or the rule take a Hull Point, which Grav does.

YourChapterMaster
30-09-2013, 18:53
Thanks for clarifying the Grav weapon results for vehicles, I did read that also somewhere else today. I agree that the hurricane bolters are something to be desired in this unit in any form since getting charged means they are dead or at least taken out of the game essentially. For that reason I feel that grav cannons are not optimal if not taken with a Raven or a land raider. I have 4 boxes of these dudes so I will have a few different load outs. I feel that the Heavy bolters with the missles on a full squad would be solid against xeno and imperial players for the most part at the best price. make the sgt a vet, 6 missle upgrades, no scope. 18 strength 5 shots, 6 frag templates, or 6 ap3 shots. Add tiggy and no one would be safe if you get perfect timing. that would be for my uber 6 man squad. Grav cannons out of a raven seem solid. Will also be trying out 2 squads of all LC/missles with a scope, Dev seem better but 2 squad with split fire and Night fight on 1 guy each squad seems like more stuff could go down a game turn. I will be testing it out and let you guys know. Dwane I will also give your loadout a try, seem like a solid deathstar.

Reasonable Commissar
30-09-2013, 19:25
We play it as the first 6 is a hull point and immobilised and the second is 2 hull points as it suffers another immobilised result which under the damage chart is an extra hull point. So its 2 rolls of 6 to kill a 3 HP vehicle.

I often use a squad of 3 with grav and hurricane bolters in a LR and as long as they dont get killed by any S10 AP2 (wraith cannons) or get tied up in combat by something fast like Jetbikes then they usually do pretty well.

SALtheWolf
01-10-2013, 04:20
Recently bought 4 boxes of the bad boys to run a devastator cohort, but was thinking of incorporating a squad for regular play. I have been having a tough time finding a load out that works. To me it seems like a no brainer to give the sgt lascanon/missiles since he can split fire and has night fighter. The other 2 weapons systems are heavy/regular infantry duty so filling out the rest of the squad with that makes sense to me. I was thinking vet sgt with omniscope, lascanon and missiles. 2 with grav cannon with amp with hurricane bolters, 3 with heavy bolters and hurricane bolters. This gives you split fire for tank duty and the other 5 can effectively engage any infantry heavy or light without people completely useless against either one. I do run ultramarines so they will definitely be running with Tigarius. Hopefully pulling the 4+ invo and perfect timing powers in divi nations which isn't hard to do. Kind of a deathstar but could be powerful. Any thoughts are appreciated.

What point size are you wanting to use your three man squad?

The Emperor
01-10-2013, 05:05
We play it as the first 6 is a hull point and immobilised and the second is 2 hull points as it suffers another immobilised result which under the damage chart is an extra hull point. So its 2 rolls of 6 to kill a 3 HP vehicle.

I often use a squad of 3 with grav and hurricane bolters in a LR and as long as they dont get killed by any S10 AP2 (wraith cannons) or get tied up in combat by something fast like Jetbikes then they usually do pretty well.

That's the way I view it as well, but I e-mailed the FAQ people just in case and explained it to them. Hopefully they'll come back with an answer for the FAQ sooner rather than later.

Dwane Diblie
01-10-2013, 06:12
We play it as the first 6 is a hull point and immobilised and the second is 2 hull points as it suffers another immobilised result which under the damage chart is an extra hull point. So its 2 rolls of 6 to kill a 3 HP vehicle.


That's the way I view it as well, but I e-mailed the FAQ people just in case and explained it to them. Hopefully they'll come back with an answer for the FAQ sooner rather than later.

You have got to remember that the Vehicle has to have been already Immobilised. That means before. Every time GW has FAQed a rule less obvious than this one the result has always been that as all shots are happening at the same time then you can not have the rule your way. Think Marker Lights, Scatter Lasers, Split Fire at Transports etc. They all are resolved at the same time even though they have a strict order that they are resolved in and you can not get any bonus to you shooting as a result of doing it in a fixed order with thing happening before other things. All Immobilised results are applied at the same time and none of them are applied before another. If the Vehicle was not Immobilised before the unit with Grav Weapons fires then you will not gat any additional Hull Points for additional Immobilised results past the first. However, if the Vehicle was Immobilised before unit with Grav Weapons fires then every Immobilised result will result in two hull points being lost, one for the Grav special rule and one for the Immobilised result as the Vehicle was already Immobilised before the shot.

vlad78
01-10-2013, 14:34
You have got to remember that the Vehicle has to have been already Immobilised. That means before. Every time GW has FAQed a rule less obvious than this one the result has always been that as all shots are happening at the same time then you can not have the rule your way. Think Marker Lights, Scatter Lasers, Split Fire at Transports etc. They all are resolved at the same time even though they have a strict order that they are resolved in and you can not get any bonus to you shooting as a result of doing it in a fixed order with thing happening before other things. All Immobilised results are applied at the same time and none of them are applied before another. If the Vehicle was not Immobilised before the unit with Grav Weapons fires then you will not gat any additional Hull Points for additional Immobilised results past the first. However, if the Vehicle was Immobilised before unit with Grav Weapons fires then every Immobilised result will result in two hull points being lost, one for the Grav special rule and one for the Immobilised result as the Vehicle was already Immobilised before the shot.


For what it's worth:

'The Answer to Grav Weapons from the Author Robbin Cruddace Himself '

http://natfka.blogspot.fr/2013/09/the-answer-to-grav-weapons-from-author.html

'via Chris, and of course thanks Robin Cruddace for answering this burning question.
Hi Natfka,
I’ve just got back from games day UK, where I spoke to Robin Cruddace about the question you raised over grav weapons immobilising a vehicle more than once. He confirmed that if a vehicle is immobilised more than once by a grav weapon rolling a 6, then it *will* loose an additional hull point for being immobilised while already immobilised, just as if you were rolling normally on the vehicle damage table. I asked him to see if he can get this in the official FAQ, so hopefully we’ll see that appear sometime soon.

Cheers!
Chris'

Mortimer
01-10-2013, 15:19
For what it's worth:

'The Answer to Grav Weapons from the Author Robbin Cruddace Himself '

http://natfka.blogspot.fr/2013/09/the-answer-to-grav-weapons-from-author.html

'via Chris, and of course thanks Robin Cruddace for answering this burning question.
Hi Natfka,
I’ve just got back from games day UK, where I spoke to Robin Cruddace about the question you raised over grav weapons immobilising a vehicle more than once. He confirmed that if a vehicle is immobilised more than once by a grav weapon rolling a 6, then it *will* loose an additional hull point for being immobilised while already immobilised, just as if you were rolling normally on the vehicle damage table. I asked him to see if he can get this in the official FAQ, so hopefully we’ll see that appear sometime soon.

Cheers!
Chris'



So they have created a must have weapon that seriously needs a hard counter to put a stop to it.

a gun that can pop a LR in one firing turn w/o the armourbane rule. There is a 1/5 chance to kill a LR.. more than enough to make it useless as a transport.

Losing Command
01-10-2013, 15:33
So they have created a must have weapon that seriously needs a hard counter to put a stop to it.

a gun that can pop a LR in one firing turn w/o the armourbane rule. There is a 1/5 chance to kill a LR.. more than enough to make it useless as a transport.

There is already terrain on a board that can make a landraider useless with a chance of 1/6 (more like 6/6 to me...) more than enough to make it useless as a transport :D

Angry Marine
01-10-2013, 19:01
So they have created a must have weapon that seriously needs a hard counter to put a stop to it.

a gun that can pop a LR in one firing turn w/o the armourbane rule. There is a 1/5 chance to kill a LR.. more than enough to make it useless as a transport.

It isn't a must take if you're Imperial Fists. ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 4

Mortimer
01-10-2013, 19:33
There is already terrain on a board that can make a landraider useless with a chance of 1/6 (more like 6/6 to me...) more than enough to make it useless as a transport :D

its the perfect transport for Centies as i said above..

you get them mid board to unleash on the 2+ saves the other army has.

plus they are immune to BaleDrakes

The Emperor
01-10-2013, 19:38
For what it's worth:

'The Answer to Grav Weapons from the Author Robbin Cruddace Himself '

http://natfka.blogspot.fr/2013/09/the-answer-to-grav-weapons-from-author.html

'via Chris, and of course thanks Robin Cruddace for answering this burning question.
Hi Natfka,
I’ve just got back from games day UK, where I spoke to Robin Cruddace about the question you raised over grav weapons immobilising a vehicle more than once. He confirmed that if a vehicle is immobilised more than once by a grav weapon rolling a 6, then it *will* loose an additional hull point for being immobilised while already immobilised, just as if you were rolling normally on the vehicle damage table. I asked him to see if he can get this in the official FAQ, so hopefully we’ll see that appear sometime soon.

Cheers!
Chris'



Wow, awesome! Thanks for the heads up. :D

YourChapterMaster
02-10-2013, 15:54
As far as points I have tried them in 1250 so far with the heavy bolter/ missiles loads without the split fire. These guys were definitely rock stars all game. Twiggy was with them for perfect timing shenanigans, o I see a foot of those 2 models ; doesn't matter because I ignore cover. Definitely good again SM, grav seem cool I but feel they need a delivery system also. Preferably a raven.

YourChapterMaster
02-10-2013, 15:59
Gonna bump to 1850 and try 6 with heavy bolters and storm bolters to get a feel. It is a lot of shots. Probably run with stern guard to pop scary things and march across destroying a squad a turn. People try to take them out but are resilient at range.

SALtheWolf
02-10-2013, 18:03
I have a box of Centurions on the way and I am thinking of running them with two heavy bolters and a las on the sgt. All three will be upgraded to missile launchers and the sgt will get an omni scope to take advantage of split fire and night fighting with his las. I want to run these at 1500 points and under and feel this might work well for the points. Might run Tig with them as well. Upgrading these guys too much is a concern of mine at around the 1500 point level though.

YourChapterMaster
02-10-2013, 20:18
I did run them HB/missle loadout last night, the quality of the shots were great but it did feel kinda meh. If you run the missiles, tigarius is a must. You need those rerolls! If you run a splitfire sarg I would recommend increasing the squad to four to really make the splitfire a bonus. If your meta regularly space out and dont clump up you will find the missiles not as great of a choice if you need to force alot of saves. 36" threat range is great since you kinda wanna screen them with something scary so they dont get charged. I want to like the hurricane bolters, 6 shots within 12" a piece is nice but you dont want charged ever. I am gonna try splitfire tank sgt, grav cannon/ missile, then 2 HB with hurricanes