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View Full Version : Forge world info about models and black fire pass



Keryso
30-09-2013, 15:22
Right, so another forge world thread is up i know, but i thought that id put up some more interesting info so here goes.

Talked to alan bligh himself and asked him when we could we expect the black fire pass book. He told me that it was gonna come this year but they had to shelf it for horus heresy and that we would have to wait 1-2 years for the book. However we are still going to get monsters that were meant for the book but instead they will be there own thing, like the troll hag which was meant to be a special character.

The dread saurian is finished. Trish just needs to cut it up and put it on the mold, she told me to expect it around christmas.

The kdai destroyer is a work in progress. It is meant to represent the god hashut and that it might need a bit of remodeling so that it doesnt look like a 40k demon engine.

There was going to be a bright wizard and another wizard (cant remember which one) in the works but because of the shelving it was postponed. They looked amazing.

This is all i could get.

defunct
30-09-2013, 16:17
Sincere thanks for posting.
Looking forward to seeing the Bright Wizard.

thrawn
30-09-2013, 18:18
Right, so another forge world thread is up i know, but i thought that id put up some more interesting info so here goes.

Talked to alan bligh himself and asked him when we could we expect the black fire pass book. He told me that it was gonna come this year but they had to shelf it for horus heresy and that we would have to wait 1-2 years for the book. However we are still going to get monsters that were meant for the book but instead they will be there own thing, like the troll hag which was meant to be a special character.

The dread saurian is finished. Trish just needs to cut it up and put it on the mold, she told me to expect it around christmas.

The kdai destroyer is a work in progress. It is meant to represent the god hashut and that it might need a bit of remodeling so that it doesnt look like a 40k demon engine.

There was going to be a bright wizard and another wizard (cant remember which one) in the works but because of the shelving it was postponed. They looked amazing.

This is all i could get.

sounds great, any pics of the mages?

Keryso
30-09-2013, 18:38
sounds great, any pics of the mages?

NO pics of the mages unfortunatly cos my phone sucks and also, i think i should have made it more clear.

The wizard pics were drawn ones, but they were the final drafts, the fire wizard looked like he was casting tow fire balls, with one hand higher than the other. He also had loads of wizard items on his personel. The other wizard i dont remember much except for gandalf hat

Daigar
30-09-2013, 19:19
"The Horus Heresy will not affect other releases."

Yeah, sure.

eldargal
01-10-2013, 04:58
"The Horus Heresy will not affect other releases."

Yeah, sure.
Yep, really annoyed about this. If they had been up front about it in the first place not a problem, but saying it wouldn't affect other releases and then saying they took on extra staff to get things working smoothly then this makes me feel like they have been stringing us along. At least Ms Carden has been given free reign over the monsters.

Evil Hypnotist
01-10-2013, 08:26
Been looking forward to the Dread Saurian since I saw the MA book, I hope (but doubt) the size matches the artwork!

Keryso
01-10-2013, 08:46
Been looking forward to the Dread Saurian since I saw the MA book, I hope (but doubt) the size matches the artwork!

that thing is huge, im trying to think of a way of describing the size of the thing, and the best thing i can come up with is that its slightly long and as tall as the empire battleship

Azazyll
01-10-2013, 10:16
Avian's description of the dread saurian is sadly spot on: upscaled giant rat

Darnok
01-10-2013, 10:52
I'm confused, what is everyone so annoyed about?

It was stated by FW that their HH effort would have no negative effect on the WHF line of theirs. This turned out to be obviously not the case. Many people - including me - had high hopes for the BFP book, and seeing that the whole WHF side of things is on life support (with uncertain prognosis)... yeah, "no effect" my ass.

Rakariel
01-10-2013, 11:07
Its just a shame WHFB is neglected like this. Profit is profit, yes I understand that a company has to look out for that, but pulling so much staff to do HH while WHFB, especially the BFP book which seemed to nearly completed, gets pushed back is pretty shortsighted. Maybe hire some more people to fill the gap if there is such a big demand in HH or 40k in general?

Persufflation
01-10-2013, 11:35
It's sad they don't want to put the effort into pushing the BFP book out...they promised a book and repeatedly delayed it now to 3-4 years after its anticipated release date...they wonder why fantasy folks aren't showing love for WHF it seems they went into fantasy expecting that everything would instantly be accepted by the community and that they would be able to equal their 40K sales...but when you refuse to commit to supporting a product you shouldn't be surprised when the community doesn't commit back to you...I love the tammurkhan stuff and most of their models are amazing but they really need to commit and stick to putting a steady stream of fantasy supplements and models out or they lend credence to the folks resisting the use of their rules/models in gameplay

Deaf Paradox
01-10-2013, 12:16
It's sad they don't want to put the effort into pushing the BFP book out...they promised a book and repeatedly delayed it now to 3-4 years after its anticipated release date...they wonder why fantasy folks aren't showing love for WHF it seems they went into fantasy expecting that everything would instantly be accepted by the community and that they would be able to equal their 40K sales...but when you refuse to commit to supporting a product you shouldn't be surprised when the community doesn't commit back to you...I love the tammurkhan stuff and most of their models are amazing but they really need to commit and stick to putting a steady stream of fantasy supplements and models out or they lend credence to the folks resisting the use of their rules/models in gameplay

Please don't mention Tammurkhan, it is probably my favourite book storywise. I would love for them do need 3 more on the other siblings, just not going to happen is it :cries:.

lbecks
01-10-2013, 12:26
Is Bligh their only writer?

cornonthecob
01-10-2013, 12:42
Yep, really annoyed about this. If they had been up front about it in the first place not a problem, but saying it wouldn't affect other releases and then saying they took on extra staff to get things working smoothly then this makes me feel like they have been stringing us along.

100% Agree with this. They should of just told us straight away instead of getting our hopes up.

eldargal
01-10-2013, 13:10
Is Bligh their only writer?

No, Talima Fox and Andy Hoare are also writing for FW now. Perhaps one more I forget.

nosebiter
01-10-2013, 13:20
Yep, really annoyed about this. If they had been up front about it in the first place not a problem, but saying it wouldn't affect other releases and then saying they took on extra staff to get things working smoothly then this makes me feel like they have been stringing us along. At least Ms Carden has been given free reign over the monsters.

So besides a tiny wee few warhammer models, basically all we will see from FW in 2014 is space marines.

Lovely.:shifty:

They need to split up the FW studio then. Hire a writer and a pair of extra sculptormonkeys. Churning out marine copypaste unit 1.45 should be easy for a rookie.

The warhammer forge side of things could be run by a new writer, Trish and a pair of other sculptors. Heck they could even employ a few freelancers from time to time. That should be enough to give us a Warhammer book a year plus models.

Darnok
01-10-2013, 13:37
They need to split up the FW studio then. Hire a writer and a pair of extra sculptormonkeys. Churning out marine copypaste unit 1.45 should be easy for a rookie.

The warhammer forge side of things could be run by a new writer, Trish and a pair of other sculptors. Heck they could even employ a few freelancers from time to time. That should be enough to give us a Warhammer book a year plus models.

That was more or less what they claimed they had done. But obviously that did not work - or did not net them enough profit. Most likely the latter.

eldargal
01-10-2013, 13:49
Hard to say, there is little doubt the HH series is netting them much more profits, hence the decision to scale back the WFB campaign books. I think it is frightfully short-sighted myself. The HH series will end eventually and sales will taper off, having a solid Warhammer Forge base with regular updates that they could expand on would be healthier for them in the long run I think.

Tamurkhan was very popular though and they are still continuing with the Monstrous Arcanum monster range which implies it at least is doing well. If Warhammer Forge isn't making as much money as it needs to do justify producing a book a year they would still be better off telling us.

logan054
01-10-2013, 14:04
TBH I'm sure they are just waiting until 9th ed is out to see if it improves things.

jestacardo
01-10-2013, 14:25
Pretty disappointing. I don't know what they expected sales wise but they released a niche army that has never been popular (don't get me wrong I love my Chaos Dwarfs but they will never be mainstream) and a monster book which is a hard sell when only one or two of the monsters are applicable to your army and which some think are only usable in Storm of Magic, which itself wasn't universally adopted. How they could shelf a book which would target 3 of the most popular races in WFB, based purely on sales data from Tamurkhan and Monstrous Arcanum, is a little baffling.

Hillbilly Carl
01-10-2013, 14:38
I would bet that they are waiting for the new dwarf book to do the BFSP book. It would make sense to release when people are thinking about replacing or adding to their dwarf armies.

havik110
01-10-2013, 14:39
if that dread saurian is finished I would be upset...I like the armor on the one in the art...I was really hoping it would have added armor on it...to me it looks like a big iguana

mostlyharmless
01-10-2013, 14:49
My hopes for a book featuring an invasion of Ulthuan have thus been dashed. If they won't follow through with Black Fire Pass, why would they make anything else? Very disappointing. My desire to throttle those duplicitous SOBs is growing stronger. As much as I like the Heresy Era stuff, the fact that they lied to our faces just pisses me off to no end.

MiyamatoMusashi
01-10-2013, 14:55
How they could shelf a book which would target 3 of the most popular races in WFB, based purely on sales data from Tamurkhan and Monstrous Arcanum, is a little baffling.

I think you're making a questionable assumption there.

It's more likely based on sales data from the two books you mention PLUS the HH books and figures, and Warhammer in general; not to mention the number of staff they have available, the inclination of their various staff (a surprising amount of FW stuff is driven by what the sculptors are interested in making, or even in some cases do in their spare time) and management (Tony Cottrell is fairly well-known for giving 40K more attention than Warhammer and after all, he's the boss!); and so forth.

Which isn't to say I think this is a "good" decision, per se. Neither is it to suggest that being honest with us in the first place wouldn't have been a better option, of course it would (it was pretty obvious to all concerned that HH would affect other releases, and it was pretty insulting of them to pretend otherwise). But still, Monstrous Arcanum basically offered nothing useful if you don't play Storm of Magic often (and honestly... who does?) and Warhammer is widely considered to be struggling and has a new edition on the way... maybe they just thought, y'know what, a Warhammer book is a lot of work right now, for limited reward compared to other options, and it may be invalidated in a year or so anyway. Maybe it's not a great time for it right now.

So, yeah. Disappointing, but not necessarily based only on the success or otherwise of Tamurkhan and MA.

Darnok
01-10-2013, 16:13
I think it is pretty safe to assume that both the WHF models don't sell as well as other products from FW, and that the WHF customer base in general is much smaller than the 40K one. It is a bit of a chicken/egg situation, but what matters in the end is: they cut down their ressources in favour of more profitable products. Fair enough on their part, I just don't like the lack of non-Marines...

eldargal
01-10-2013, 16:17
The issue, for me, isn't that they are focusing on HH but that they promised HH wouldn't affect WarForge. Then when it clearly had they said they were taking on more staff to speed things up again. Now this. If they had been honest from the start, or if they came out and said it was down to sales then while disappointing it wouldn't be quite so irritating.

Noserenda
01-10-2013, 17:19
They promised that last year while gearing up and things changed, the Horus Heresy blew their sales estimations well out of the Water as can be seen from the dramatic up-scaling of what each Legion is getting and extra tanks etc. Theyve been fairly open about the shift in resources since at least the Weekender back in March(?) so this tirade is hardly fair, from what id heard the HH sales completely eclipse the Warhammer stuff, what would any sensible business do?

Though ill admit it could be a case of split fanbase, I was planning a lot more Warhammer Monsters from their range just to own them before more Heresy Pretties stole all my money :D

MiyamatoMusashi
01-10-2013, 17:37
what would any sensible business do?

Be honest with their customers? "We'll support FW, WF, and HH according to the success of each". Easy. Instead of promising that WF would be completely unaffected by HH... which was patently untrue right from the start.

Hire more staff? If HH is so astronomically successful, they can afford to hire people to... work on HH. While still having others working on WF. Easy (assuming sufficient skilled sculptors are available, of course).

Eldarin Hope
01-10-2013, 18:04
Or, more likely, they'll stop being as open as they currently are and be as open as the main studio is.

jestacardo
01-10-2013, 18:07
They promised that last year while gearing up and things changed, the Horus Heresy blew their sales estimations well out of the Water as can be seen from the dramatic up-scaling of what each Legion is getting and extra tanks etc. Theyve been fairly open about the shift in resources since at least the Weekender back in March(?) so this tirade is hardly fair, from what id heard the HH sales completely eclipse the Warhammer stuff, what would any sensible business do?


I would counter that by saying that if a company de-prioritises a portion of its customer base and says they are irrelevant, what would a sensible consumer think?

A sensible business strategy isn't just about maximising immediate profit, but also broadening the consumer base to ensure longterm stability against changes in the market. There's a difference between reducing the staffing on Warhammer Forge and pretty much cutting it completely. A compromise of shifting most resources over to HH, whilst still maintaining a small but steady stream of fantasy releases, wouldn't hugely have affected the HH release schedule.

As it stands now, say FW do eventually release Battle for Blackfire Pass, a percentage of people who may have bought into it will now be hesitant as they can't guarantee that FW won't do the exact same thing down the line and leave half the stuff in the book without models. And that's going to hurt sales, it's a self-reinforcing prophecy.

logan054
01-10-2013, 18:08
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/THE-EMPIRE/EMPIRE-MANANNS-BLADES.html

This kinda highlights the problem with warhammer forge, the model count of warhammer is just so much higher because of the generally higher points of games, generally much larger units and the lower point to model ratio. I can buy a couple of packs of heresy marines and some weapons, raid the bits box or troll some bits stores and have a complete unit, I'm going to have to spend 3-4 times as much to get a complete unit thats actually usable in the game, thats a general problem with 40k vs warhammer anyway.

jestacardo
01-10-2013, 18:10
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/THE-EMPIRE/EMPIRE-MANANNS-BLADES.html

This kinda highlights the problem with warhammer forge, the model count of warhammer is just so much higher because of the generally higher points of games, generally much larger units and the lower point to model ratio. I can buy a couple of packs of heresy marines and some weapons, raid the bits box or troll some bits stores and have a complete unit, I'm going to have to spend 3-4 times as much to get a complete unit thats actually usable in the game, thats a general problem with 40k vs warhammer anyway.

But look at the Chaos Dwarfs, cheaper to collect than something like Skaven.

RanaldLoec
01-10-2013, 19:19
The dread saurain is huge it's on a stonehorn base which it over hangs.

The black line denotes the actual edge of the base.

simonbeard
01-10-2013, 19:41
I would counter that by saying that if a company de-prioritises a portion of its customer base and says they are irrelevant, what would a sensible consumer think?

A sensible consumer would think that sales aren't strong enough in that customer base for the company to prioritize it. I mean, I love the WHF stuff, and I've got both the books, but how many folks out there are actually buying the WHF dolls? Many of them are beautiful, and the rules for them are really neat too. However, they're really expensive, and if folks are already having to spend an arm and a leg on getting a basic army from GW, the likelihood of them spending even more on WHF un-official dolls, goes WAY down. The pricetag of WHFB is just not very attractive for anyone these days, and folks are being forced to pick and choose what they buy. And they're just picking and choosing less from the WHF catalogue.

Yes, it sucks that their efforts toward WHF haven't worked out financially (or at least as well as their HH efforts). But are they to blame for that? The customer base is really to blame. Either we're buying too many Space Marines or we're not buying enough monsters or both. Or blame GW's pricing on their WHFB dolls. I don't dispute that this is a huge bummer. But being angry at Forge World for wanting to support their community that is showing them the most financial support in return is unreasonable.

mostlyharmless
01-10-2013, 19:45
You get out what you put in. From the moment you walk into a hobby center, open a White Dwarf, look at Black Library, or check out either website, you are bombarded with images of Space Marines.

If they did the same with, say, Empire Knightly orders, I predict you will see sales of Empire armies increase significantly. Just my theory.

Persufflation
01-10-2013, 20:26
I think the lack of clarity regarding how 'official' WHF is kept alot of folks away...gosh, I think I read that Legion of Azgorh was not allowed at official GW tourneys in the UK despite it being an official list...had they released a few more similar supplements/lits and allowed thier 'new' line of products to mature and gain acceptance I'm sure more folks would have bought in...their 40K stuff has been around forever and so is more accepted and familiar to gamers in that system than WHF is...They really needed to stick by it and come out with 2-3 supplements which the main GW recognized pushed towards community acceptance...had they followed up with dogs of war or say wood elves (which have not been updated for an eternity) they could have had several niche armies they could have pushed out the door and with increasing exposure improved the acceptance of those as well as their other supplementary rules (e.g. who uses elspeth von draken in a tournament?)...once this level of acceptance had occurred they most likely would have seen a marked increase in sales for this line...for now the only items you can count on being able to use from them is the legion of azgorh and even then some people still question its validity and may refuse to play it...

draccan
01-10-2013, 20:59
It is really sad to see Warhammer Forge be shut down on life support so early before it really took off. First they limited the four chaos books to one, then postponed indefinitely the Black Fire Pass.

When you look at it they didn't stick with it long enough for it to really take off. And I think Warhammer Forge is hit by the price hikes that takes place, just like Warhammer Fantasy. Fantasy is hit harder than 40k because it requires more models and large units.

This large Saurus block that GW offers for 155$ really shows the problem:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440065a&prodId=prod2170007a
A block of this size of plastic toys should cost maybe a 1/4. Mass production scale and since it is plastic means the actual prices are a joke.
40k will be hit later on when they realize that collectors collect HH and large armies, but new players are soon priced out.

I think Warhammer Forge is largely a failure not due to just sales and prices, but also how unfinished it is. Few armies received any miniatures and though I love the landship and some of the monsters it is not stuff that people NEED in their armies. I have been pondering over starting Chaos Dwarves, but since they can't be bothered to release the whole army it seems a waste to start it.

All in all yet another failure of promises and hype from GW. If people don't buy it is not due to lack of interest in the hobby, it is because we can't pay 60$ for 10 plastic witch elves and still look ourselves and our partners in the eyes and feel proud.

lbecks
02-10-2013, 03:17
They promised that last year while gearing up and things changed, the Horus Heresy blew their sales estimations well out of the Water as can be seen from the dramatic up-scaling of what each Legion is getting and extra tanks etc. Theyve been fairly open about the shift in resources since at least the Weekender back in March(?) so this tirade is hardly fair, from what id heard the HH sales completely eclipse the Warhammer stuff, what would any sensible business do?

Though ill admit it could be a case of split fanbase, I was planning a lot more Warhammer Monsters from their range just to own them before more Heresy Pretties stole all my money :D

Sadly I don't think GW is the type of company any more that would pump up HH (which is a sensible thing to do) and then send resources back to WHforge to complete projects there.

kylek2235
02-10-2013, 04:27
A sensible consumer would think that sales aren't strong enough in that customer base for the company to prioritize it. I mean, I love the WHF stuff, and I've got both the books, but how many folks out there are actually buying the WHF dolls? Many of them are beautiful, and the rules for them are really neat too. However, they're really expensive, and if folks are already having to spend an arm and a leg on getting a basic army from GW, the likelihood of them spending even more on WHF un-official dolls, goes WAY down. The pricetag of WHFB is just not very attractive for anyone these days, and folks are being forced to pick and choose what they buy. And they're just picking and choosing less from the WHF catalogue.

Yes, it sucks that their efforts toward WHF haven't worked out financially (or at least as well as their HH efforts). But are they to blame for that? The customer base is really to blame. Either we're buying too many Space Marines or we're not buying enough monsters or both. Or blame GW's pricing on their WHFB dolls. I don't dispute that this is a huge bummer. But being angry at Forge World for wanting to support their community that is showing them the most financial support in return is unreasonable.

The counter argument here is that Warhammer Fantasy pays an astronomically higher price per army, which makes Fantasy harder to get into, which lowers your fan base which depresses your revenue stream. I know numerous people here that have jumped ship from GW to play Warmachine. A large chunk of them claim either the lower costs (eventhough price per model is higher, price per faction is much lower) or the lower time investment (ie I don't have to assemble and paint 200 warhammer models) as important factors for the jump. We've become a tax write off because it's become readily apparent that 8th ed + price increases = jumped the shark. That's not a fan base problem. We're simply on the wrong side of the bell curve, while 40k is not. If 40k armies cost the same amount as a fantasy army, do you think we'd see the same number of people playing 40k? I'm betting no (although the fact that 40k scales down much better than fantasy may slow that slide a bit). Starting a new Warhammer division at a time when the company is intentionally lowering its customer base (remember basic econ, higher prices=lower quantities sold) is not going to lead to a successful start up.

It's simple at this point. If GW wants to increase their customer base, stop price hiking for short term gain at the expense of long term profits. That strategy has led us to now.

logan054
02-10-2013, 09:00
But look at the Chaos Dwarfs, cheaper to collect than something like Skaven.

I'm not sure exactly what point your trying make here, it would make more sense to compare them to a army which paid simiar points per model. Of course that isn't even the point I was making, its more 40k is a much cheaper game because you generally need less models, hence why FW stuff does better than WF.


The counter argument here is that Warhammer Fantasy pays an astronomically higher price per army, which makes Fantasy harder to get into, which lowers your fan base which depresses your revenue stream.

Yep, the real problem is they have applied the 40k model pricing to warhammer which has a must higher model count and wondered why it hasn't worked, then you have all the imbalances in the rules (like magic).


Still it is a massive shame we wont be seeing as much from WF, I was looking forward to seeing some more chaos stuff :(

StarFyreXXX
02-10-2013, 10:53
DId i read here that Warhammer Forge is gone? Just back to Forgeworld again?

Also, FW monster quality have seen a decline IMHO since Daniel Cockersell left. Thankfully, he still has awesome works coming out via Mierce, and their other sculptors as well).

Got the large bird giant from their kickstarter last night...awesome :)

I really wanted the dread saurian; but not sure i'll bother with it now...

Sanjay

MiyamatoMusashi
02-10-2013, 11:00
DId i read here that Warhammer Forge is gone? Just back to Forgeworld again?

Not gone... but on hiatus for a while. For the books anyway, there's at least a couple of monsters not far away from production (so it seems).

It just depends on how much of "a hiatus" it really is, and how long "a while" lasts.

eldargal
02-10-2013, 11:32
Only the campaign book is on hold, the Monstrous Arcana range (if not another book) is continuing.

kylek2235
02-10-2013, 15:14
Only the campaign book is on hold, the Monstrous Arcana range (if not another book) is continuing.

You're not wrong, but continuing appears to be very subjective. I saw the first WIP pics of the Kidai a very long time ago and it appears to have advanced very little. The Dread Saurian looks an awful lot like the old Carnosaur combined with the new but scaled up. It looks like a rush job in the sense that it doesn't appear to bring anything new to the table. I actually like the model (it is nice looking), just not as the Dread.

Here's a pessimistic yet tends to be true part of business: when things get put on hold, they almost never get picked back up. They just keep getting pushed to the back of the line until they eventually get pushed right off the table. It's a shame because I love my Tamurkhan book. I hated the idea of a campaign to destroy the entire Warhammer World, but the deviations from Rick's original concept worked great. I can't count the number of times I've reread the Night Goblin ambush of Tamurkhan's horde. It was even the inspiration for my Night Goblin Horde army.

Urgat
03-10-2013, 10:48
It depends on the resources they already spent on the project, and if the particular company can just brush them off w/o a care. Granted, we don't know about either points for FW, but it still applies. If they've already done a fair amount of work on the book and if they don't exactly sleep in beds made of gold, odds are they'll want a return on investment at some point.

MiyamatoMusashi
03-10-2013, 11:29
Only the campaign book is on hold, the Monstrous Arcana range (if not another book) is continuing.

This would be the range of models that were all supposed to be released by Christmas 2012 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?318435-Tamurkhan-out-on-Gamesday-UK!&p=5815897&viewfull=1#post5815897)? (As Harry was also told (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?318435-Tamurkhan-out-on-Gamesday-UK!&p=5815977&viewfull=1#post5815977), though there was some doubt (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?318435-Tamurkhan-out-on-Gamesday-UK!&p=5831053&viewfull=1#post5831053), and Harry also doubted (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?318435-Tamurkhan-out-on-Gamesday-UK!&p=5830818&viewfull=1#post5830818)).

So I guess "continuing" depends on your point of view. I guess they'll likely finish this stuff that's pretty close to finished, but it's not like they're giving it the attention they originally claimed.

draccan
03-10-2013, 11:38
It is pretty save to say that this book and Warhammer Forge in general is dead or in life support at best..
I was so excited to see Warhammer Forge to appear, unfortunately GW pulls the usual moves.

de Selby
03-10-2013, 12:49
Someone had a video of the FW games day seminar and the question was asked how many HH books were planned. The answer seemed to be that they were just getting started and not getting them out as fast as they would like.

To me that seemed to indicate that FW could be in the Horus Heresy business exclusively and indefinitely. But I wonder if becoming just the arm of GW that makes the 30k marines is what they really intend, or something they've fallen into and at some stage they'll take a step back and re-balance.

There appears to be a fair amount of creative control at FW, so although there's lots of excitement now, at some point they're going to get bored of nothing but marines (even if they do sell).

Romanus
03-10-2013, 13:35
Personally I feel that the biggest problem that warhammer forge has at the moment is that they have two books out at the moment, Tamurkhan and Monstourous Arcanum, of which both have only got models for about Half the entries in each book. If they really are going to go down this routs and release these books then the ranges need to be there to support it. I have diligently collected a Chaos dwarf army, but I'm still waiting on great weapons, Blunderbusses, Hobgoblins, K'daai and Infernal Ironsworn. yes I could probably dodgy something up from other ranges and proxy models but I choose this army because the models are such a higher standard then main range GW. I'm considering doing a naval themed empire army using the manaan blades and land ships, but the support really needs to be there to encourage people to collect these armies. It is frustrating to no end that ranges are released with only a third of ther options.

Cheers,
Rom

MiyamatoMusashi
03-10-2013, 15:09
Fair point. The Bull Centaurs come with hand weapon and shield I think, and who wants to give them that? They're practically impossible to convert to great weapons (for example), or a command group, without basically resculpting the entire upper half of the figure. I don't expect them to actually appear, but if they don't, I'm not buying Bull Centaurs... whereas I'd buy at least two sets if they had reasonable options.

(Great Weapons on the standard infantry is a similarly big deal to some people, though I'm alright with hand weapon and shield for them).

MajorWesJanson
03-10-2013, 15:10
I think it is pretty safe to assume that both the WHF models don't sell as well as other products from FW, and that the WHF customer base in general is much smaller than the 40K one. It is a bit of a chicken/egg situation, but what matters in the end is: they cut down their ressources in favour of more profitable products. Fair enough on their part, I just don't like the lack of non-Marines...

At least as the Heresy moves along, we get more and more non-marines, things like the Mechanicus (bit by bit until they are ready with the Warlord Titan and Mars), Soon Custodes and Sisters of Silence, and not long after we will see much more daemonic and even Imperial Army. Plus the Marines have started to settle down to legion specific units and characters mainly.

Still, Much of the Heresy stuff is building on a set base design, making it faster and easier to design, sculpt, and break apart to cast. Most of the WHF stuff is starting from scratch each time.

anselminus
03-10-2013, 15:13
thanks for info
GW really love bright wizard... thay could be make other order!

Marked_by_chaos
05-10-2013, 15:20
Could it also be that the book is being postponed in part due to the rumoured big shakeup of fantasy in 9th edition.

I doubt it would be the main reason, but if they are marshalling available resources in light of the Horus heresy it may be another delaying factor.

logan054
07-10-2013, 10:07
I would think they are waiting until after new Dwarf, Orc & Goblin and 9th ed books are out (I recall reading on one the threads here something about a new Orc & Goblin book, I could be mistaken), I just hope 9th ed doesn't invalidate my Tamurkhan book in anyway.

RanaldLoec
12-10-2013, 20:06
What's more important a range a unique and wonderful monsters for warhammer or a space marine version of an imperial guard earthshaker!

Sigh I want more but warhammer forge but the boardroom has seen BIG $$ in the heresy range.

So I doubt we will get much love.

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Vazalaar
12-10-2013, 20:54
What's more important a range a unique and wonderful monsters for warhammer or a space marine version of an imperial guard earthshaker!

Sigh I want more but warhammer forge but the boardroom has seen BIG $$ in the heresy range.

So I doubt we will get much love.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk now Free ('http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10')

Personally I don't really care about the Warhammer Forge monsters. The WF monsters do look fantastic, but I would prefer to have character packs for all armies. The Orc/Goblin/Dwarf/Empire Character packs are fantastic. I wish they would release more packs like those.

About the Heresy range, I can't resist it anymore.

Pug118
12-10-2013, 21:24
Well given the successful launch of the HH line, one angle might be that the parent company (e.g. the main studio) pick up 30k to ensure it receives the necessary support. After all FW was set up as a small scale operation supporting niche products. If this were to happen then FW's output would most likely become more balanced across multiple ranges again, rather than so heavily weighted towards marines.

cornonthecob
12-10-2013, 21:32
All I want is more WF stuff, is it so hard for FW to leave a few designers who AREN'T obsessed with Spehhs Mareehns ?

Darnok
12-10-2013, 21:38
Obviously: yes.

underscore
12-10-2013, 23:05
Personally I don't really care about the Warhammer Forge monsters.
Yeah, it'd be interesting to see how WF would've done if they'd been producing a bit more... usable models rather than these odd monster centrepieces which don't really have a place in your average game.

@allmyownbattles
12-10-2013, 23:55
There appears to be a fair amount of creative control at FW, so although there's lots of excitement now, at some point they're going to get bored of nothing but marines (even if they do sell).

Sadly, that's like saying Coke are bound get bored and ditch the soft drinks. I'm afraid that, now they have something that sells, they'll go on making them unless they stop selling. If the staff get bored, they'll go work somewhere else and the company will go on selling models with laser guns FOR EVER.

RanaldLoec
12-10-2013, 23:56
Yeah, it'd be interesting to see how WF would've done if they'd been producing a bit more... usable models rather than these odd monster centrepieces which don't really have a place in your average game.

FW don't produce average models :D

This christmas is my FW chaos dwarf christmas.

draccan
31-10-2013, 21:51
FW don't produce average models :D

This christmas is my FW chaos dwarf christmas.

If they ever finished Chaos Dwarves I would strongly consider starting them.. but I am gonna put it on hold until they are complete..

Ender Shadowkin
01-11-2013, 20:46
If they ever finished Chaos Dwarves I would strongly consider starting them.. but I am gonna put it on hold until they are complete..

??? What specifically are you waiting for? They only thing left to release that they intend to release is the K'daai destroyer. They certainly have plenty of models to make an entire army from. The only thing really missing are hobgoblins, and they have stated a couple times they have no intention of releasing those, It's just too pricey to make a horde type unit out of resin. There are plent of conversion oportunites though (e.g. storm vermin with goblin or knoblar heads).

jestacardo
01-11-2013, 22:25
The Infernal Guard are missing 2 out of 4 weapon options - Blunderbusses and Great Weapons. Blunderbusses there are no suitable pieces to make a conversion with, which is a shame for such a unique and standout weapon.

The Bull Centaurs are also missing a bunch of weapon options.

Spiney Norman
01-11-2013, 22:33
The counter argument here is that Warhammer Fantasy pays an astronomically higher price per army, which makes Fantasy harder to get into, which lowers your fan base which depresses your revenue stream. I know numerous people here that have jumped ship from GW to play Warmachine. A large chunk of them claim either the lower costs (eventhough price per model is higher, price per faction is much lower) or the lower time investment (ie I don't have to assemble and paint 200 warhammer models) as important factors for the jump. We've become a tax write off because it's become readily apparent that 8th ed + price increases = jumped the shark. That's not a fan base problem. We're simply on the wrong side of the bell curve, while 40k is not. If 40k armies cost the same amount as a fantasy army, do you think we'd see the same number of people playing 40k? I'm betting no (although the fact that 40k scales down much better than fantasy may slow that slide a bit). Starting a new Warhammer division at a time when the company is intentionally lowering its customer base (remember basic econ, higher prices=lower quantities sold) is not going to lead to a successful start up.

It's simple at this point. If GW wants to increase their customer base, stop price hiking for short term gain at the expense of long term profits. That strategy has led us to now.

To take up the point about warmachine, I think it depends on whether you'd first a gamer or a hobbyist/modeller/painter. GW is probably going to appeal a lot more to the modeller/painter types because their models are far superior, the background setting makes far more sense etc.

Warmachines range of models are ultra dull, nightmarish to assemble and just generally nowhere near the standard that GW is running at with its plastic range right now. However warmachine does have a much tighter rules set, a properly supported FAQ system whereas GW's breath-taking laziness where it comes to FAQing their books is legendary.

For me I like painting pretty things, and cutting up things to make my own pretty things, and then occasionally playing a game with them with some good mates and having a laugh. GW's emphasis on models fits me exactly right, they essentially produce somewhat dodgy rules to accompany their awesome models, while PP produce somewhat crappy-looking models to accompany their tight, competitive rules.

I fully expect to buy the dread saurian when it goes on sale, though that will somewhat depend on its price and the funds I have available at the time. I don't own the book (mainly because I have long objected to paying the price of FWs books just to get a bunch of rules, most of which I will never use) but since the rapid march of price increases which has clobbered army books of late, there really isn't a great deal of difference so I can see that going out the window.

Perhaps in the dread Saurian my Lizardmen army can finally discover a big predatory dinosaur that isn't painfully overpointed

MiyamatoMusashi
02-11-2013, 09:04
The Infernal Guard are missing 2 out of 4 weapon options - Blunderbusses and Great Weapons. Blunderbusses there are no suitable pieces to make a conversion with, which is a shame for such a unique and standout weapon.

The Bull Centaurs are also missing a bunch of weapon options.

True, though if you're waiting for them, don't hold your breath - they're not going to do them.

It's a shame, though, as the Bull Centaur models are armed with the second-worst weapon option available (spears being the only worse option) and due to their size and pose are very, very difficult to convert to anything else - much more than just a weapon swap. And yeah, even the Infernals don't have the best option available.

Not enough to stop me collecting the army, but intensely frustrating none-the-less.

jestacardo
02-11-2013, 11:47
That's really disappointing, did they say why? Was it due to lower than expected sales?

Jind_Singh
02-11-2013, 16:34
Sadly it's return on investment - bet you anything that:

Released Warhammer Forge concept
Released two books
Made lots of monsters

On the other side

Released a new set of bolters for FW Space Marines which most likely sold more than all of the above Warhammer stuff!!!!

And that was just some bolters - yet alone the rest of the stuff! I know a LOT of people who are buying HH items for their armies - even those who are doing complete HH armies - yet I know a SMALL handful of people doing stuff from FW from Warhammer.

I have both books, the Magma Dragon, and the Arcane Toads - most others I know just have the books but no models.

Valaraukar
02-11-2013, 17:05
Sadly it's return on investment - bet you anything that:

Released Warhammer Forge concept
Released two books
Made lots of monsters

On the other side

Released a new set of bolters for FW Space Marines which most likely sold more than all of the above Warhammer stuff!!!!

And that was just some bolters - yet alone the rest of the stuff! I know a LOT of people who are buying HH items for their armies - even those who are doing complete HH armies - yet I know a SMALL handful of people doing stuff from FW from Warhammer.

I have both books, the Magma Dragon, and the Arcane Toads - most others I know just have the books but no models.

I'm trying my best but there's only so much one man can do! I have both books and the majority of their releases since being branded Warhammer Forge, just missing the odd one and some of the older big models such as the Greater Daemons and War Mammoth but I don't know anyone else with any Warhammer Forge stuff although many with stuff for 40k and Horus Heresy.

I see a lot of complaints about them not producing more for Fantasy but what they have done just doesn't seem to attract anything like the same market as the 40k miniatures despite the quality!

Kingly
02-11-2013, 17:23
Well this all sounds exciting, it's a shame threads in this section all seem to boil down to speculation on how well Warhammer is doing. With increased releases and great models just sit back and enjoy it is what I say.
The forge world models are great love the Chaos Dwarf range as well.

jestacardo
03-11-2013, 09:27
Well this all sounds exciting, it's a shame threads in this section all seem to boil down to speculation on how well Warhammer is doing. With increased releases and great models just sit back and enjoy it is what I say.
The forge world models are great love the Chaos Dwarf range as well.

That's a little bit patronising to those of us that spent large amounts of money on Chaos Dwarf armies and can only field 50% of our core options.

Squiiiiig
03-11-2013, 15:55
could just be waiting for the dwarf book to be redone, fw can hardly tell us that so had to make up a story

maze ironheart
03-11-2013, 18:54
Right, so another forge world thread is up i know, but i thought that id put up some more interesting info so here goes.

Talked to alan bligh himself and asked him when we could we expect the black fire pass book. He told me that it was gonna come this year but they had to shelf it for horus heresy and that we would have to wait 1-2 years for the book. However we are still going to get monsters that were meant for the book but instead they will be there own thing, like the troll hag which was meant to be a special character.

The dread saurian is finished. Trish just needs to cut it up and put it on the mold, she told me to expect it around christmas.

The kdai destroyer is a work in progress. It is meant to represent the god hashut and that it might need a bit of remodeling so that it doesnt look like a 40k demon engine.

There was going to be a bright wizard and another wizard (cant remember which one) in the works but because of the shelving it was postponed. They looked amazing.

This is all i could get.

I hope it's true about the dread saurian have been waiting since I saw it in the book.

Morkash
03-11-2013, 19:43
I hope it's true about the dread saurian have been waiting since I saw it in the book.

Well, not to crush any dreams, but the version shown at one of the Games Days a few months ago looked quite different from the artwork. Not bad in my opinion, but if you're expecting a gold plated artwork look-alike, then some disappointment might be happening.

I also hope for more Fantasy goodness, but I fully agree with Jind - and not only because I'm one of the people only having the books. HH motivates a great many people, just look at FW's facebook page when they release a new HH model. When they released the Iron Hands last week one guy was exclaiming that he bought a couple of large tactical squads plus other stuff. Well, 5 Iron Hands are 32 pounds, so I'd take a safe bet that this was a rather big order. If you have only 50-100 of these guys for every HH release (which is quite possible in my opinion) Warhammer Forge with its monster/large model focus stands at a bad position compared to the Heresy.

N1AK
04-11-2013, 13:02
(remember basic econ, higher prices=lower quantities sold) is not going to lead to a successful start up.

Basic economics is price elasticity and virtually no product has an entirely linear relationship between price and demand. It's easy to claim that simply dropping prices would lead to a rapid increase in Warhammer sales but there's no evidence to support that.

Space marines could be 0.10 each and you still wouldn't see me buying any unless I could work out a decent way to convert them into chaos warriors.