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View Full Version : Hide and Seek: An MSU guide to Wood Elves (no forest spirits)



Gustav Kohn
01-10-2013, 18:22
I am writing this tactica as an exercise for my own enjoyment and benefit, but I hope that by posting this, it may help others. Note that it is written for a particular style of play and statements about units and synergy may not apply to use in different army compositions and play styles.

Army Choice: I choose wood elves because I enjoy the aesthetics of them and I like vengeful elves without them being evil, emo elves. I don’t mind trees, but prefer the elves so I went with a theme of NO FOREST SPIRITS. This is important because it will inform my play style and composition choices.

Outline of this Post:

I. Army Composition

A. Guiding Principles

B. Core

C. Special

D. Rare

E. Characters
II. Pre-Game Thoughts
III. Deployment
IV. Tactics in Game

A. Movement

B. Magic

C. Shooting

D. Combat
V. Final Thoughts

Army Composition:
Guiding Principles

Wood Elves are expensive, elite troops that need to be used efficiently in order to have a chance of winning. Every piece should therefore have a purpose. There is no chaff.

In a no forest spirit list, you are limited to units that do not have staying power nor are there units that have substantial hitting power. You have no hammers, you have a rapier. Your job is to cut the enemy in the places that it hurts the most, and then allow them to die. Therefore every unit you have should be pointed toward a purpose of hurting your enemy efficiently. This can be done offensively or defensively. It might be in the movement phase as well as the more offensive phases of the game.

Therefore, you must be prepared to deal with all of the possible threats to your all elf army. The major threats, along with why they are a threat, are as follows (in no particular order)

• Big Nasties (HPA, Hydra, etc)-

o Random movement destroys wood elf movement advantage

o We have few units that can effectively tarpit these monsters
• Large unit(s) of cheap troops-

o Our units cannot wear these units down in combat

o Shooting (if not leafblower tactic) cannot kill this off
• Warmachines (particularly cannons)

o They snipe

o They ignore our benefits against shooting (skirmished, etc.)
• Magic Users

o Magic missile spells destroy small units and ignore our benefits against shooting

o They provide magic defense against our much needed magic
• Fast Units

o MSU wood elves are based around out maneuvering your enemy. Fast enemies negate this
• Shooters

o Massed shooting can wipe out our shooting and limit where we can move

Your army composition, therefore, needs to have something that can deal with or negate all of these threats.

Two overall themes are recommended in playing MSU wood elves

1. Movement- Do not allow yourself to be engaged unless you have the advantage or it gains you far more than it costs.

2. No Targets- Nothing in your list should be an obvious target for your enemy. This will lead them to making targeting mistakes and a failure of focus on their part.

Core:
• Glade Guard Scouts

o Purpose-


 This is an important unit for making your enemy waste valuable time in attacking it. Alternatively it is steadfast in woods and can redirect charges easily. It does not have high offensive output, but is use to protect characters, annoy, redirect, hold in woods, and keep points out of your opponents hands.


 annoy blocks into going after them instead of the more stationary GG


 warmachine hunting.

o Recommendation- I use two units of between 8-10, sometimes scouted and sometimes not. They are more expensive than GG but in this type of army worth the cost.
• Glade Guard

o Purpose- You must take one unit of this type for every unit of GG scouts. This is the primary reason that I take them, but they do have usefulness.


 They become a target for your enemy because they are the least mobile object in your army


 They can provide higher strength shots against the enemy, but not enough to destroy anything on their own


 One can take the banner of eternal flame to hurt regenerating creatures

o Recommendation- One unit of 10 w/musician and one unit of ten w/musician and banner (should have the banner of eternal flame).
• Glade Riders

o Purpose- These are fast harassers that have very little killing power, but can war machine hunt, redirect, and take out chaff

o Recommendation- I use one unit of 5 w/musician, but two units would be fine as well. More than this and you are losing too much offense
• Eternal Guard

o Purpose- This is an anvil unit in a play style that has no hammer. They would become the target of the entire enemy force and give them exactly what you are trying to avoid giving them…a viable target

o Recommendation- Not for use in this list
Special:
• Warhawk Riders

o Purpose- These are fast harassers that can be used for redirecting, war machine hunting and chaff killing (cheaper than glade riders per wound and attack, but fewer shots)

o Recommendation- One or two units w/o upgrade are good
• Wardancers

o Purpose- These guys are the only “hitters” you really have in the list and they can’t hold on long. Instead, I use them to tie up big units for a while in the woods since skirmishers get steadfast. I occasionally sacrifice them to attempt an important KB

o Recommendation- 2 units of 7-9. A champion can be nice if you want to run them in with an alter or eagle noble so that the champ can take the challenge
Rare:
• Great Eagles

o Purpose- These guys are included in the list to redirect. They are not your primary warmachine hunters because they are more important for making sure your enemies most dangerous unit just gets eagles

o Recommendation- 2 eagles in every game…non-negotiable
• Waywatchers

o Purpose- This is a harasser unit extraordinaire. Furthermore, people focus on this unit like no other, so it becomes a great distracting unit. Finally, it scares characters and destroys monster riding characters and the like.

o Recommendation- 1 or 2 six man units (Large units raise the cost too high and become juicy targets)
Characters:
• Highborn

o Purpose- Giving leadership and taking out high armor stuff from afar

o Recommendation- Bow of Loren; Arcane bodkins; etc. (I usually put a talisman on him to keep him safe if I get him into combat)
• Spellweaver

o Purpose- A Spellweaver is of vital importance and should be completely protected. Offensive uses are good, but defense is just as important. Therefore I protect with ward saves.

o Recommendation- Wand of Wych Elm or other magic defense and 4+ ward talisman; BEAST WEAVER because we don’t have great targets for Life spells in this army.
• Noble Builds

o Noble on Eagle with Spear of Twilight and other trickster’s shard- This noble’s job is to look like a warmachine hunter, but actually to be a mage killer.

o Alter Noble with Helm of the Hunt, Raegeth’s Wildfire Blades, and Potion of Strength- Used for taking out the biggest nastiest monster the enemy has or making sure that you win a combat the one time you really need it.

o BSB with Asendi’s Bane and Hail of Doom Arrow- useful for unleashing hell and keeping units from running at inopportune times
• Spellsingers

o Purpose- none really. You can take one for magic defense, but points are better used elsewhere

o Recommendation- don’t bring one

Pregame Thoughts:

It is important in every game to make a list of priorities. These should focus on targets and objectives. While each game and army is different, there are some general rules to follow. I will base this tactica off of a straight up, no objective game.

Priorities (In order):

1. Avoid enemy shooting- nothing hurts us more than losing models early to shooting

2. Take out fastest units- These units can box you in even if they are not strong

3. Take out monster & take out magic- These are equally important IF the monster has Random movement, if not it goes after magic. Additionally, the methods for taking out these two do not overlap, so can be done together.

4. Take out warmachines- hopefully some fairly easy points

5. Spend the rest of the game avoiding the enemy and shooting a single unit into oblivion

Deployment:

Terrain
• Your forest- Position your forest where it will not interrupt your lines of sight to the enemy and in position to be used by your skirmished units. This is usually in your deployment zone close to the middle to be used to divide the board
• Other terrain-

o Buildings- These should be taken if the enemy does not have warmachines that cause extra damage

o Hills- not extremely important to you

o Impassible Terrain- Highly useful for keeping your scouts and waywatchers alive

o Forests- Use to hide your troops in and used to lure monstrous cavalry, cavalry, etc. into dangerous terrain tests
Troop Deployment
• Position your flying, skirmished, and fast cav units first. They should be deployed on the table side that you will NOT be contesting. Use your eagles first, then wardancers a little closer to the center, then fast cav and other flyers.
• This (especially the wardancers) makes your opponent believe that you will concentrate on that side. They will, if you succeed, put a slow or important unit too far to that side and therefore make it useless for about 2-3 turns
• Next, position your two glade guard in a position to shoot the enemy if the GG move up five inches. They should be on the opposite side of the board from you fast cav, flyers, and wardancers. This will give them the most time possible to shoot at the enemy before being caught and killed.
• This means that if the enemy goes first, he probably can’t shoot them in the first turn
• If you go first you can shoot him
• Finally, scouts should be deployed on flanks or near your Glade Guard. They can be used to protect characters later or, if in flanks, distract and take out warmachines.

Tactics In Game:

Movement
• Skirmished, flying cav, and fast cav units should remain outside of charge range or arcs as much as possible
• GG units should be moving back and away from one another while shooting the enemy as much as possible

o This forces the enemy to split their units to deal with each individual glade guard, which are the only “easily” accessible units in the army.
• Eagles should be used to either 1) Turn units away from the glade guard or 2) Block charges on the glade guard by receiving charges

Magic
• Spells

o Wyssan’s Wildform- Use this to protect (+1 toughness) a unit that will get shot or to buff a unit about to get charged

o Flock of Doom- Useful for killing chaff so that your units can shoot other things. Also useful for causing a wound or two in order to make a unit take a command check. All in all, little used spell.

o Pann’s Impenetrable Pelt- This is a spell I NEVER use. I trade it for Wyssan’s every time. Range is too short to help in protecting the alter and other characters should be protected by being in units that will NOT see combat.

o Amber Spear- Awesome spell that can start being used from the first turn. I use it against big nasties, high armour, or warmachines

o Curse of Anraheir- Great for two reasons, it hurts the enemies hitting power if my units do get into combat or shooting range OR it can DESTROY a high point per model units ability to move quickly. Favorite spell in this lore.

o Savage Beast of Horros- I use this to add 3 attacks to my Highborn. It is also situationally useful if a unit is going to get into combat and has a few characters

o Transformation of Kadon- While I think it is interesting and cool, it is just too situational for use in an army that doesn’t want to see combat. I don’t use it and trade it if I can.

Shooting
• Remember your priorities in shooting (In order)

1. Take out the fast stuff on the first turn, except the flaming unit, which should always shoot a regen monster if possible

2. Take out the monsters
3. Take out shooting

4. Shoot warmachines if applicable

5. Concentrate on the a unit only after all other threats are dealt with

Combat
• Avoid any combat that is going to be protracted or cost you more than you gain (remember that gains can include turns or avoiding contact with a more important unit)
• Noble on Eagle should charge the enemy unit with the highest level mage. If the unit has a champion, charge in with another unit with a champion (glade riders if you can buy the upgrade) or the alter. Taking out their mage can go a long way toward winning the game for you. It is worth the trade if it is level 3 or 4.
• The Alter noble should charge their monster as soon as possible after drinking the strength potion. You should get 7 str. 7 attacks with no regen and initiative 10.
• Work as hard as possible not to run or be wiped out on your turn when engaging with Wardancers. Therefore, you should use your 4+ ward save to protect yourself on your own turns combats.

Final Thought:
• The enemy should feel surrounded and incapable of getting to your units. This will frustrate them into mistakes
• DO NOT allow your enemy to make charges that will give them access to a flank. This will allow them to run down your entire army.
• Lower the number of units that your enemy has is extremely valuable. Focus on a unit until it is gone.

Kayosiv
02-10-2013, 08:03
Very interesting. Once you get all of the things you feel that you need to make a list like this work, how many points have you spent?

Gustav Kohn
02-10-2013, 14:13
Sure, I will post my list that I am taking to Alamo GT in San Antonio this year. I took a similar list to Bayou Battles in Houston a year or two ago. I learned a lot from that Bayou list.

Bayou 2012 List 2500

Highborn Scout- Bow of Loren, Arcane Bodkins, Tal of End, & Dragonhelm
Spellweaver lvl 4- Tal of Pres & Wand of Wych Elm

Noble on Eagle w/lt armor- Spear of Twighlight, Other trickster's shard, & charmed shield
Noble BSB- Banner of eternal flame

2X10 GG w/musician
9 GG Scouts w/musician
8 GG Scouts w/musician
5 Glade Riders w/musician

3 Warhawk Riders
8 Wild Riders FC
9 Wardancers musician
8 Wardancers musician

6 Waywatchers
2 X Great Eagles

First of all, I won 3 of the 5 games I played. I lost one to skaven with the storm banner (booooo) and Empire (Couldn't kill that stupid steam tank and the random movement ended me). I beat an Ogre player, WoC player (Poor guy didn't kill a unit and lost almost everything), and an empire player.

What I learned from the experience at this tourney:
1. Don't take wildriders. Not only are the technically forest spirits and so the fluff bunny gods smite you, but they just can't do enough damage. I wanted to use them to take out units that I had weakened through shooting, but they just couldn't do it.
2. The BSB shouldn't have had the BoEF. Just put it with one of the GG. My thought had been that I could move him around if one unit was weakened. This was true, but not worth the cost.
3. The Eagle noble needs to attack with a unit w/champion sometime so that he doesn't get challenged away from a mage assassination run.
4. I need another way to deal with big nasties like Stank, Abomb, Hydra, etc.

Getting rid of the Wild Riders is the main way that I get points for the things I need to add. This tournament was a big help in making me write this tactica. I changed my style a bit more and tested it against friends. Haven't gone outside my meta with my new list though, so the Alamo tourney will let me know how it plays.

Gustav Kohn
02-10-2013, 14:51
Alamo 2013 List 2500:

Highborn Scout- Bow of Loren, Arcane Bodkins, Tal of End, and Dragonhelm

Purpose: Magic shooting to take out heavily armored units. If he gets savage beast he ends up with 7 shooting attacks. Makes savage beast a spell that opponents need to consider dispelling from the beginning of games and not just turns with combat.
Spellweaver lvl 4- Tal of Pres & Wand of Wych Elm

Purpose: Do I need to say? I go with the wand, but a dispel scroll would work for cheaper, but I hate dispel scrolls and don't use em.

Noble on Eagle Light armor- Spear of Twilight, Other Trickster's Shard, & Charmed Shield

Purpose: Repeat after me. KILL THE MAGE. That is this guys job. If they don't have a mage, go after BSB or general.
Alter Noble- Raegeth's Wildfire Blades, Helm of the Hunt, Potion of Strength

Purpose: Monster killer. This guy goes in turn 2-3 after you have taken a monster down a couple of wounds. He can also go in with the Eagle Noble to help possibly win combat. He can get 6 attacks and at high strength on the potion turn. If your mage gets savage beast off on this guy you just deleted something even without the potion.

2 X 10 GG w/musician (one with standard and Banner of Eternal Flame)

Purpose: Flame goes against regen monster. If no regen monster then you put as much shooting into targets as necessary to destroy them. Avoid dividing your fire amongst many units.
10 GG Scouts w/musician

Purpose: Sheer annoyance factor. By turn 2 you have taken out Warmachines or forced the enemy to devote many more points in protecting them than they are worth. Once chaff and WM are gone, just shoot at the same unit as the GG.
9 GG Scouts
5 Glade Riders w/musician

Purpose: Deploy on the side you will not be contesting so that enemy deploys there. Run back across the table and then use as redirection after the eagles die.

3 Warhawk Riders

Purpose: Fluff. No really, they suck. Actually I think they are fun. Use them for the same as Glade Riders. Moving them right behind the enemy battleline is fun because you can still shoot or charge if needed. They can also fly in front of enemy to redirect from that position.
9 Wardancers w/musician

Purpose: Act as protection for your GG units. They can also hold up blocks if you make the enemy come into the forest or if you charge them when they are in the forest. You can also use them as a mage bunker.
8 Wardancers

2 X 6 Waywatchers

Purpose: Similar to scouts but with the added benefit of scaring your enemy. For some reason, people overreact to these guys. KB is not that big a deal, but people are afraid of it and will go out of their way to take these guys down. Also, if there is a defenseless mage in the front row of a wimpy combat unit (skeletons, etc.) then charge in and try to take the mage out. These guys do get 2 attacks each.
2 X Great Eagle

Purpose: Glorious Glorious redirection. If used correctly, you can buy yourself an extra turn or two of shooting with these guys. Or use them to totally mess up an enemy's battle line when he charges the eagle and it holds. Yes it will die, but then he will have one unit in front of another.


Well, that is it. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them.

Soundwave
02-10-2013, 17:09
Wow this is comprehensive.Probably a bit too much ,yet i love it (i will admit i lost it at hyrdra,but hey...).M.S.U shooting in this style is a risk,deployment of these troops are a key factor!The way watchers are an awesome idea BUT i can not see any unit to do the "cleaning" well the dirty fight at the last bits for grabs.
Are you this confident with your shooting?

Gustav Kohn
02-10-2013, 17:21
Wow this is comprehensive.Probably a bit too much ,yet i love it (i will admit i lost it at hyrdra,but hey...).M.S.U shooting in this style is a risk,deployment of these troops are a key factor!The way watchers are an awesome idea BUT i can not see any unit to do the "cleaning" well the dirty fight at the last bits for grabs.
Are you this confident with your shooting?

We won't know for sure until the tourney. However, in my meta what happens is that people are so surprised during the first game that they end up chasing skirmishers. When I win, it is not by a large margin. I usually win by getting full points for all chaff units, warmachines, and monsters. I do not usually get points for blocks of infantry. Occasionally, I will be able to get a block if they are not well armored, are T3, they charge/flee/overrun/etc. with a Cursed unit or all three.

Hence, it is not confidence in shooting so much as confidence that I can kill more than they can catch.

PS Did I mispell Hydra? if so, where? What hyrdra lost you?

Soundwave
02-10-2013, 17:33
No,no my boo boo on hydra but you are talking to three bottles of wine.(shssssssssssshsssss) Any how at a tourney how can you take down a star ? This is where majority of points are tied up and the only reason i see for any decisive combat is the war dancers... would their points be best spent on another unit of glade guard? or do they perform a key role?

Wesser
02-10-2013, 17:40
How do you get them scouts around the problem that not everyone fields 3 hordes and two warmachines?

In my meta people are pretty careful about not letting there be anywhere in their deployment zone for scouts and usually they have a choice of deploying out into the open or in the main battleline..... and yet you speak of them as if it is easy...whats the secret here?

Gustav Kohn
02-10-2013, 19:10
Soundwave- It might be the case that wardancers are less useful than more GG, but 1) I refuse to min/max and go with a leaf blower list 2) they are not there to kill tons of stuff, they hold things up and OCCASIONALLY wipe out small leftovers. Dryads would also be more useful here, but no forest spirits. Taking down a star is NOT going to happen. Instead, I go for killing everything not in the deathstar and then feeding the star eagles and warhawk riders until they are marginalized or out of position. Risky, but only hope. I have not faced any star accept a manhunter star which sucked and was easily destroyed and a 7th ed marauder star which I shot to death until it fled.

Wesser- first of all, I am not always deploying them in the enemies backfield. I may not be able to use them to WM hunt. In which case, I may just have to shoot the WM to death. 18 hits on average will kill one. However, my deployment often makes people focus on one side because they think I am only deploying over there. Then the scouts have more room. My meta also has lots of MSU, but even against my skaven friend, I can usually find or make gaps through which I can squeeze into their rear.

Soundwave
02-10-2013, 19:40
Wow ! Chill bro... i love your angle but pwfoa" lets talk about it in a "general fashion...stop taking yourself so seriously and relax a little.
Anyhow fantastic understanding and i can see the wardancers having a more usefull place than most.Sometimes well all the time it is about how you use a particular unit,not how do i get my points back baby hammer.I know it and you know it and other peoples concern is the lack of combat potential requierd in this army when a little "push becomes to much "shove. I rarley horde a scant nowdays and focus on all four phases and not so much m.s.u yet mid strenght units and spread characters.
I will often have a lord fighter in a mini star and a great low budget level four caster in any 2500 pnt army.I like my options so where is your option against 2/3 solid combat units of sorts?

Gustav Kohn
02-10-2013, 20:16
Wow ! Chill bro... i love your angle but pwfoa" lets talk about it in a "general fashion...stop taking yourself so seriously and relax a little.
I certainly was not taking anything too seriously. Actually not quite sure from what comment you got that notion. I certainly wasn't rebuffing you. I was only trying to answer you questions from my own opinion. I am all on board with talking in a general fashion. Sorry to have given you the wrong impression.


Anyhow fantastic understanding and i can see the wardancers having a more usefull place than most.Sometimes well all the time it is about how you use a particular unit,not how do i get my points back baby hammer.I know it and you know it and other peoples concern is the lack of combat potential requierd in this army when a little "push becomes to much "shove. I rarley horde a scant nowdays and focus on all four phases and not so much m.s.u yet mid strenght units and spread characters.
I will often have a lord fighter in a mini star and a great low budget level four caster in any 2500 pnt army.I like my options so where is your option against 2/3 solid combat units of sorts?
In general my hope if I face 2-3 solid units and then chaff/fast stuff/monsters/WM is that I can get through the gaps or around the edges enough to get all the non combat unit stuff. I might be able to get one of those blocks with shooting too. Finally, I attempt to either 1)make them use multiple units to box in one of my speedy units (in which case they used lots of points to get a few) or 2) make their blocks get in each other's ways.

My list definitely doesn't have all the answers. I still lose more than if I were playing a different race. However, it is a viable wood elf build. I definitely don't want to give the impression that I have all the answers, so any critique is welcome.

Yamabushi
03-10-2013, 07:55
Very interesting. Can you elaborate more on the game with Warriors of Chaos? Specifically, how would this Wood Elf concept handle Skullcrushers and Flying Nurgle DPs?

Gustav Kohn
03-10-2013, 11:33
Yamabushi. Seeing the power level creep up is not good for this list. Especially because this creep has not come from deathstars, but from powerful, fast moving units or characters. THe WoC game that I played was against the 7th ed. book. They had a disk rider who got KBed by my waywatchers. A horde of Mauraders that I shot to death. A unit of 15-20 chaos knights that I cursed and shot to death. And a Juggernaut character who was KBed in the last turn. The player fell for putting everything in one corner against my cav and I was basically able to play him as if we played the long table scenario. He just couldn't get to me.

However, the Nurgle DP would be the #1 priority for the shooting. Only hope would be to take it down that way. Then the Machine gun Highborn would go after skull crushers as much as possible. I might throw the alter against them. However, I wouldn't feel confident against a chariot/NP/skullcrusher army. Too fast and toughness too high.

smokemeakipper
03-10-2013, 14:09
a really well written article gustav, very interesting indeed, even though i dont play as wood elves
im sure some of those tactics/ unit analysis could be used for other armies as well. it would be good if others came up with detailed tactica for other themed armies

Yamabushi
04-10-2013, 02:22
Yamabushi. Seeing the power level creep up is not good for this list. Especially because this creep has not come from deathstars, but from powerful, fast moving units or characters. THe WoC game that I played was against the 7th ed. book. They had a disk rider who got KBed by my waywatchers. A horde of Mauraders that I shot to death. A unit of 15-20 chaos knights that I cursed and shot to death. And a Juggernaut character who was KBed in the last turn. The player fell for putting everything in one corner against my cav and I was basically able to play him as if we played the long table scenario. He just couldn't get to me.

However, the Nurgle DP would be the #1 priority for the shooting. Only hope would be to take it down that way. Then the Machine gun Highborn would go after skull crushers as much as possible. I might throw the alter against them. However, I wouldn't feel confident against a chariot/NP/skullcrusher army. Too fast and toughness too high.

Hi Gustav, thanks for the response and advice. Its so very tempting to start a Wood Elf army after reading your analysis.

Gustav Kohn
04-10-2013, 02:42
a really well written article gustav, very interesting indeed, even though i dont play as wood elves
im sure some of those tactics/ unit analysis could be used for other armies as well. it would be good if others came up with detailed tactica for other themed armies
Thanks for the kind words. I would have to say that playing Wood Elves has made me better, or at least more tactically and strategically aware, in all of my armies. My Orcs became less of a bashing army and more of a bashing army...with a few crafty bits. I certainly think that some of the ideas work. It could apply amazingly well for Dark Elves.

Hi Gustav, thanks for the response and advice. Its so very tempting to start a Wood Elf army after reading your analysis.
Well, I would certainly welcome another Wood Elf player; however, at this point we have a lot more jumping ship than joining in helping rid our forests of the invaders. It is not an easy road and winning is not as common as with other armies. It is challenging, and yet they are still my favorite army with which to play. Just don't want you to jump in and get trounced a few times. You will get a lot of experience in your first games. Experience at the cost of losing, but it will make you better.

That said, if you are ever in the Texas area, let me know and we will get in a game.

Yamabushi
04-10-2013, 06:59
Haha, I already play Tomb Kings...that should indicate how much of a sucker for punishment I am. That said, it is precisely because of their hard to master nature that attracts me. Power armies repel me.

ChargeAndDie
04-10-2013, 07:10
what about playing this list in an etc environment? i agree with your concepts but it would be tough to get big victories. - not enough killing power. i run a similiar list but with 3 eagle riders and 2 treeman. i find that the eagle riders with GW are essential in handling monsters and / or chariots / DPs. We have many good magic items that help - 3++ mundane ward, Stone of Rebirth etc.

Gustav Kohn
04-10-2013, 12:04
Haha, I already play Tomb Kings...that should indicate how much of a sucker for punishment I am. That said, it is precisely because of their hard to master nature that attracts me. Power armies repel me.
Oh yeah, you do like punishment. You will fit in just fine. I too hate "power" armies. Even when I play an army that is considered powerful, I generally limit myself in some way. For example, my Orcs have only 2 goblins. They are chained up night gobbo shamans. My VC are skeleton only and based on that theme. My Lizardmen are almost completely saurus and no slaan. My Dwarves are no gunpowder. However, WE are still my fav and I love the moment that someone realizes that they are losing to a wood elf army...it is awesomeness. Makes the 5 prior losses more bearable ;)


what about playing this list in an etc environment? i agree with your concepts but it would be tough to get big victories. - not enough killing power. i run a similiar list but with 3 eagle riders and 2 treeman. i find that the eagle riders with GW are essential in handling monsters and / or chariots / DPs. We have many good magic items that help - 3++ mundane ward, Stone of Rebirth etc.

Well, I have never played ETC, but having just looked it up on google, it seems that the army comp wouldn't change the list, but that scoring system both helps and hurts the army. 1/2 points for over 25% gone or a fleeing unit is helpful, but since this army doesn't usually win a tabling victory, the VP system hurts it lots. I wouldn't think that you could get above 13-7 victory often. I have a second eagle noble that needs to be painted up before I put him on the board; however, I am afraid that I might become too character heavy. I could trade out the warhawk riders for him though. It is certainly a viable option for another unit to take out threats.

Soundwave
04-10-2013, 12:53
Great read Gustav i am enjoying this thread.I have been reading and thinking,i came to the conclusion that in the right hands your army can work well very well.Last time i fought wood elves i was Vampires and i was tabled by an army that comprised of not a single bow...the treekin/man and eternal guard mash it hurt so bad,yet i was sloppy with my v.c.
Anyhow wood elves,lack alot in the magic department,you said useing a level four purley for defence what sort of build do you use?:)

Gustav Kohn
04-10-2013, 13:10
Great read Gustav i am enjoying this thread.I have been reading and thinking,i came to the conclusion that in the right hands your army can work well very well.Last time i fought wood elves i was Vampires and i was tabled by an army that comprised of not a single bow...the treekin/man and eternal guard mash it hurt so bad,yet i was sloppy with my v.c.
Anyhow wood elves,lack alot in the magic department,you said useing a level four purley for defence what sort of build do you use?:)

Not purely for defense, but that is a main purpose. Since the lvl 4 is very important to the list, I put tal of pres (4++ save) and the wand of wych elm. I feel that the wand allows me to take more risks in my dispel dice and thereby save more dice and dispel more spells.

In offensive magic, it is in the tactica, but my optimal spells would be Wyssan's (put on wardancers or GG about to get attacked), Savage Beast (7 shots for bow of loren highborn, tons of attacks for eagle and alter nobles, on unit with highborn and mage that is going to get charged), Curse of Anraheir (Put on a unit that is about to charge or that needs to march to get closer. Big deathstars hate this as do expensive cav units; also helpful in combat due to -1 to hit), Spear (Helps take out big nasties since everything else struggles with this)

MOMUS
06-10-2013, 00:54
Gustav, you need to track down a dude called Tom Richards. He was rather adept with wood elves in the tournament scene, many of the tactics you put forward he perfected.

Gustav Kohn
07-10-2013, 13:33
Thanks MOMUS. I am now watching his review of WE with Johnny Crass. I am definitely getting some new ideas. I may try running eagle highborn and nobles instead of the Machine Gun Highborn and the Alter Noble.

Gustav Kohn
22-10-2013, 12:05
Taking the following list to a tourney in two weeks. I will update as to how it went.

Highborn w/ Bow of Loren and Arcane Bodkins
Spellweaver Beasts LVL 4 w/ Talisman of Pres & Wand of Wych Elm

Alter Noble w/ Wildfire Blades, Potion of Str., & Dragonbane Gem
Noble BSB w/ Asyendi's Bane & HoDA
Noble on Eagle lgt arm & GW w/ Glamourweave & Helm of the Hunt
Spellsinger lvl 1 w/Deepwood Sphere

10 GG w/musician & banner of eternal flame
10 GG w/musician
10 Scouts
10 Scouts
5 Glade Riders

3 Warhawk Riders
5 Wardancers
5 Wardancers
5 Wardancers

1 Eagle
1 Eagle
6 Waywatchers

Althwen
22-10-2013, 12:29
Tom Richards was a great inspiration to me and rekindled my enthusiasm for WE when I thought it was a waste to take them out of their armycase.

It's always fun to see the look on an opponents face when they find themselves dancing to the Wood Elves' tune which is movement and ranged combat.

I must, however, say that Phoenixes and Daemon Princes are swiftly stomping WE's back into a stupor where it's getting harder and harder to snatch victory from your opponents claws.
Everyone who tries, though, deserves a firm pat on the back.
Here's to hoping that with a new armybook next year, they'll be a bit more competitive. I love taking them to tournaments, but there's no denying the underdog position WE's are in.

Gustav Kohn
05-11-2013, 12:47
So, Tourney results are in:

I went 2-3 against 2X Beastmen, Vamps, CD, and castle dwarves.

The tourney had some wonky scenarios, but they really only hurt me once.

I didn't do as well as I wanted (goal was 3-2), but I played really well and the ones that I lost came down to them making good rolls or me having bad ones, so nothing you can do about that. I will try to get some battle reports up later, but until then this is the general report.

Game 1:
I handily defeat a fun looking shambling gobbos (Vamp Counts) army with no scream & 4 necros. He spread out and I killed one whole side of his army.

Game 2:
Chaos Dwarves with lvl 4 on taurus, shooting gobs and shooting dwarves. 3 war machines and other stuff. I started off well by wearing down some of his units on one side. Then his flying general came out and I had to reroll to wound him with 6s to wound. He torched much of my army by himself.

Game 3:
Beastmen with 2X30 Bestigors and a big block of gors. We had to put 1 core infantry unit in the middle of our deployment so this messed up my normal style. In the end, I killed his chaff, made 1 unit of Bestigors panic 2 times (they always reformed) and took the unit of gors down to 1 man. He had 4 chars in the unit so he just distributed all my shots to the chars and saved the unit...booo. I lost by 300+ points.

Game 4:
Super fluffy beastmen with Gors, 2 units of minotaurs, Gorgon, 3 chariots, etc. I circled around him. Shot his chaff off. Shot his Gorgon off. Shot his Gore/doombull off. Charged 5 wardancers into the flank of his huge unit of gors. KBed the general, won combat, ran them down.

Game 5:
Castle Dwarves. Kept shooting war machines from afar. He moved toward me. Shot his hammerers. His miners came in and anvil charged. Recked my line pretty hard. I was up 90 after my last turn (he had 2 hammerers left). He hit the anvil with might power or whatever. rolled a 4. Rolled 6 for d3 units. Killed 3 units with his shots and won by 202. DOH!