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View Full Version : Mundane lance and mundane halberd workable?



Max_Killfactor
04-10-2013, 01:33
I want to have my hero charge with a Lance on the first turn, then use a Halberd in the following combat rounds. Neither is magical.

I think it's possible because under lances it says "A lance is only used in a turn in which the wielder charged into combat. In subsequent turns the model uses its hand weapon."

So waitaminute Max, you said he could use his Halberd. It clearly says the model uses its hand weapon.

Yeah, but earlier under the heading "Close Combat Weapons", it says "If a model carries a special close combat weapon, he must fight with it in the Close Combat phase - he cannot elect to wield his hand weapon instead."

So he has two special weapons. He uses the lance when he charges, but can't use it afterwards. He can't use the hand weapon because he also has a halberd. So he has to use the halberd.

Am I correct? I convinced my group that it's okay, but I want to make sure it's legit before playing strangers. I don't ever want to get in a fist fight over Warhammer rules again.

AverageBoss
04-10-2013, 02:54
I would not have a problem with it, but it is clearly a case of two conflicting special rules. It was debated to death surrounding the Dragon Lance, and it got special wording to allow the wielder to switch to whatever other weapon he had.

Lord Zarkov
04-10-2013, 08:27
You are correct in your interpretation.

bigbiggles
04-10-2013, 09:13
Feels iffy to me, but I would like it to work that way

sorberec
04-10-2013, 09:20
Does it not say under the weapon options for the character entry "May choose one of the following"?

MyNameDidntFit
04-10-2013, 09:30
Rules-wise, I would say no but I'd allow it in a game because I'm not that fussed by it.

The reason I say no is that the rules state "use your hand weapon". They don't say "use another weapon" or "refer back to weapon selection rules to see which weapon the character uses instead" it's pretty black and white "uses its hand weapon". This, to me, is a case of a specific rule (Lance) overriding a general one (must use a special weapon).

theunwantedbeing
04-10-2013, 10:10
It needs an FAQ really.

The base special weapon rules do state that you have to use a special weapon if you have one
The two special rules bit states that you have to choose at the start of the combat (not during)
The lance rules state that you have to use a hand weapon in rounds you didn't charge

So you have 2 ways to see the rule
1. The OP's way, you have to use a special weapon all the time and you have to switch due to the special weapon rules.
2. You don't get to switch because you already made your special weapon choice, you chose the lance and so have to stick with it even if you don't get to use it in subsequent rounds.

Option 2 also has the interesting choice of being able to "choose" to use a lance when getting charged and then getting to use a hand weapon.

Neither way is really more correct than the other so discuss it with your opponents beforehand to see which way they rule it.

Max_Killfactor
04-10-2013, 17:50
Thanks for all the responses guys. It looks like I'm either correct or it's at least murky enough that a reasonable opponent (my favorite kind) wouldn't get bent out of shape.


Does it not say under the weapon options for the character entry "May choose one of the following"?

In the newer books, that appears to be the case. Thanks for pointing that out. Some older ones I think would say "choose any of the following". I've been theoryhammering my new character builds for Dark Elves, so I'm not sure what the wording is yet. In their 7th edition book, you are right. It says you must choose one of the following. In Warhammer Forge's Chaos Dwarf list, it says choose any of the following... although lance is not an option.

That's probably why I couldn't find an answer, two mundane special weapons is probably being phased out. Thanks again for pointing that out.

sorberec
04-10-2013, 19:47
In Warhammer Forge's Chaos Dwarf list, it says choose any of the following... although lance is not an option.


I wouldn't use the Warhammer Forge book as a guide to anything in any case as it's not written by the regular GW writing team

Loriel
04-10-2013, 21:05
Us High Elf have little bit similar situation with Star Lance + Great Weapon / Halberd discussion. Then add shield to mixture. (well that is easy, since lance states subsequental round or the round if not charged) ;). http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=42246 has it perhaps little better opened

I would suggest here reasoning as such, as you can only choose your weapon at the start of combat (BRB page 89 two special close combat weapons) with the following restriction magic weapon >> special weapon >> hand weapon. And of course more than two of the same type allows to choose. Well you would choose Lance at the start, since if model would carry both Lance and say halberd, the choice must be made. Then you follow the rules of that choice. In a sense Lance as a choice includes special rule of hand weapon... But this is really hard cracker and the argument since (BRB page 89 Close combat weapons) dictates that model must fight with the special weapon. But there is actually one nuance that can be used to deny special weapon after lance, is that you cannot elect hand weapon. In that sense we could say that after lance there isn't a choice made for the hand weapon.

Fluffy sense I actually see hand weapon as better choice. Think about charging with a horse and pushing lance through enemy heart. Then would you really get your great weapon / halberd from back back and start swingin, or would you just took the sword from holster and slash the hell out of enemies.

So in conclusion I would state that you have to use hand weapon after Lance. But this is still matter that hasn't been resolved by FAQ.