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jarbo
07-10-2013, 00:37
Here is my first DE list since the new book came out.

Lv 4 Supreme Sorceress (dark magic)
5+ ward/tome
Sits in with a Darkshard unit

lv 2 with scroll
Goes in with the black guard, primarly to cast POD

Master bsb
HA/SDC, enchanted shield, and crown
Goes with the executioners to give them stubborn. Pretty defensive in a 2+

Hag
Cauldron of blood
Will be between the BG and WE (since the Ex get to reroll 1's anyway) to give them rerolls to wound and casting on which ever one needs buff most.

24 Witch elves full command (6x4)

10 Darkshards
Musician, banner, flame banner

10 darkshards
Muscian

2x5 Dark riders

24 Black Guard Full command (5x5 with sorc)
my anvil

26 Executioners Full command (7 wide)
can be anvil and hammer with COC giving stubborn.

8 Shades
Great weapons and banner
Figure they can take out war machines, chaff, and late game rear charge as str 5.


What do you guys think? My thought process was 3 units about 25ish big would give the enemy some confusion of what to shoot/cast at first. Odds are 2 of them will get to combat with enough bodies to win. 2 of my blocks are stubborn and all can do some damage. I have 60 BS 4 and 16 BS 5 shots to take out chaff and pepper units as support.

Anything you see giving this list a problem or is it to comp unfriendly?

Slashattack
07-10-2013, 12:33
The list should work. I do question the point of making the executioners stubborn with the crown. They should be winning combats, not grinding it out with other infantry blow for blow. Elves just die (except phoenix guard) in a war of attrition.

Also wouldn't it just be easier to cast wild form on the black guard. It would boost their toughness as well as strength, plus wouldn't potentially kill your wizard.

Hope these tidbits help.

Slash

jarbo
07-10-2013, 16:20
I thought about that too, but I figured I wouldn't win every fight and holding a unit in place to get more support can be key. I thought about wild form, but POD is a 8+ and with a 3+ to cast dark my lv 2 will have a much easier time casting POD then the 10+ (8+ with wizard level). Plus if I loose her and gain a few dice back I consider that a draw. I can use the dice to feed the level 4.

Sineater81
07-10-2013, 23:36
I don't think you understand DE . You seem more suited for an army like lizards .

meowser
08-10-2013, 15:09
I don't think you understand DE . You seem more suited for an army like lizards .

Such a helpful and substantiated post.


On to the army. It's small in terms of # of deployments, but I think many DE armies will have that problem. You have a good number of options to clear chaff, and a strong magic phase. 3 solid blocks that are still manouverable due to not being in horde (although WE may with the cauldron) is good.

logan054
08-10-2013, 15:47
My concern with the army is the size of your combat blocks, the witches with no armour and only T3 are going to get shot to bits, its the same with the black guard and executioners, i would personally say a unit of 30 is the bear min, I would probably be looking at units of 35 that are 7 wide. It might be worth dropping the 2nd wizard ( I know, a little risky) just so you can flush out your combat block or I would pick either Executioners or black guard (ok, executioners are clearly better).

I Am Forsaken
09-10-2013, 05:04
I like the list and generally the idea (maybe a little defensive for my tastes). Maybe run the cauldron in the witches to give them the 5++ but keep them close enough to the executioners to benefit from the buff??

Just something to think about.

avernos
11-10-2013, 21:27
Maybe run the cauldron in the witches to give them the 5++ but keep them close enough to the executioners to benefit from the buff?? the problem with that is the buff isn't for units within 6" it's for models within 6" so depending on placement it may only affecting a small number of models in the unit, but then I suppose a small number is better then none at all. the alternative is a very narrow frontage for your army to get the full impact of the reroll.

AllanG123
12-10-2013, 22:27
the problem with that is the buff isn't for units within 6" it's for models within 6" so depending on placement it may only affecting a small number of models in the unit, but then I suppose a small number is better then none at all. the alternative is a very narrow frontage for your army to get the full impact of the reroll.

its an awkwardly worded rule, but im certain that the full unit has it as long as the models have murderous prowess
so only one model has to be within the range but all must have the rule to benefit

if that makes any sense

Norngahl
12-10-2013, 23:45
I don't think you understand DE . You seem more suited for an army like lizards .

This.

My Chaos Dwarves will gun down your list, and I only field 1 Magma Cannon and 2 Deathshrieker at 2,5k.. You seriously need something small that is fast and able to kill castled warmachines. Like a master on peg with 1+ AS, Lance and 3++ ward vs shooting. If not, what will come towards me? 2x5 dark riders, and a hand full of shades.. pretty easily eaten up by 20 hobgoblins with throwing knives or a iron demon which are usually used for flanks.. and then the rest of your big blocks just got sucked by s5 flaming template or 5" templates.. I'll gun you down and eat the rest with little effort in close combat..

You have nothing to deal with well protected warmachines or dedicated ranged armies (little space to deploy, encastled). Change that or you will bitterly loose vs. empire, dwarves and even skaven..

SteveW
13-10-2013, 03:21
Your units are the perfect size to die vie treb hits with consistency and not fast enough to get away from my comet. So as a potential opponent I love this list.

My primary gaming partner is a DE player and we have concluded WE's are garbage, they either die too easy or you give them a 300 point upgrade to make them weak savages. Dark riders and corsairs were the big winners in core in the new book. Also, warlocks, get some, they do work even in close combat with their poison and 4++.

Lordcypress
13-10-2013, 04:57
He posted the list for advice on how to improve it. Not what or how your army would take it down. I'm not a DE player so can't even pretend to give you advice but I'm sure you'll receive better suggestions that what's been posted so far. Come on guys stop with the negative posts. You veteran DE players post something constructive!

Voss
13-10-2013, 05:49
Hmm. Personally I think tactics from the enemy POV tend to be really helpful for army building. Having the counters explained gives you some idea of what you have to deal with. Negative posts are certainly valuable when it comes to pointing out that rather than having 2 anvil units, he has none, and a sorceress who's been left to die in a min xbow unit.

Norngahl
13-10-2013, 09:19
A level 4 is good. Would rather go for sacrificial dagger with a say 20 Spearman unit as dagger fuel. DE magic potential is strong, abuse it to full extend.

Take a master on peg with full mundane, lance and 3++ cloak. Should be able to run down a warmachine per turn, starting from turn 2.

20 Darkshards might be fine as well for most of the games, but then field them as 20. Think of watchtower as well, on top on beeing able to support in Close combat.

20 spearman + darkshards will soak some core points, for the rest, take 2x5 dark riders. Darkshards might be not that useful in every game, but also think of mirror games or games vs. elves. They also offer some board control vs small flanking units.

Ged rid of the cauldron and the lvl 2. Useless point soakers, especially the lvl2 for boosting black guard strengh.. wtf?! Most expensive +1 strengh boost i have ever seen. Take a second warlock unit instead.

Take at least 2 Bolt throwers. They are dirt cheap and they might kill the one or other warmachine as well, and so monsters. They are also good for clearing the board from small rush units or eating up the rests what magic left over.

There is nothing wrong with black guard or executioners. Really, this comes down to personal preference.. but I'd go for one of them, as costs add up quickly. 30 are fine, but give an ironcurse icon to the champ. 5 points are definately worth it every game you face warmachines.. 30 are fine. Some will die on the way, thats warhammer ;)

Think about adding 1-2 hydras, sure they aren't as strong as before, but they still have enough punch to deal some damage, especially to weakened units (magic!!). They are also small, easy to move and sneak around AAAND they add some cannon/warmachine targets, which will make your really expensive unit or the key targets a bit more unattractive.

If there are still some points left, spend them on whatever you like.

jarbo
15-10-2013, 04:31
Thanks for the replies guys. Here is the revised list I came up with.

Lv 4 (life)
dagger/4++
Goes in executioners. Pretty protected with her ward and getting wounds back, with dagger I can 1 dice most spells on a critical magic phase, rez/buff, and give them a much needed regen.

lv 2 on dark steed (depends on what I roll for spells, worst case I can sigs)
scroll

master bsb
heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloak, ring of hotek

master on peg
heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloack, lance, cloack of twilight
much needed in my list

12 dark shards
mus/banner/flame banner

10 dark shards
mus

2x5 dark riders
mus/banner, rxb

28 witch elves
full command

40 exicutioners
full command + banner of swiftness
not 100% sure on the amount here, don't really want to run a horde, but feel it might be needed. I could drop them down to 32 and run 8x4 and add more units (would pay for a bolt thrower and could cut a few more points for a second)

8 shades
great weapon, banner, mus

9 warlocks
really solid for the points, adds more speed to my list.

Is this more in the right direction?

SteveW
15-10-2013, 04:43
That list looks hard as nails if you can get the right life spells it will shore up the few weaknesses inherent to t3 armies.

I'd split the 9 warlocks into two units of 5(i know that means finding 12 skaven slaves somewhere).

Romark
15-10-2013, 13:18
I like the look of the second list. SteveW's suggestion to find a few more points and make the Warlocks 2 units of 5 is solid though.

I, personally, don't like using a horde either. But in this edition you take one or lose (in most cases). With a Life Wiz you can afford dropping them to 32 and getting a RBT though i think.

I'm hopefully playing a 2k one soon, and mine will look fairly similar to this.

Rakariel
16-10-2013, 14:28
What SteveW and Romark said. The list looks fine, I wouldn`t (or couldn`t) use the dagger on executioners however but that is up to personal preference. I would rather give her the black amulett and leave the dagger at home. It will give the sorc a 4+ ward aswell but she can also be a threat if she gets challenged (and she surely will once your champion is dead - or you could challenge to avoid alot of attacks coming her way). Could be a nasty surprise. About the size, I would drop some executioners. They are very dangerous and with your setup (sorc with life and a BSB) your list would benefit more if you put in a Reaper or two instead. I second the idea about two units of 5 warlocks aswell.

meowser
17-10-2013, 15:02
New list is nice. With 6 levels of magic in your characters, I think a second unit of Warlocks is a bit unnecessary. You could drop your unit to min unit size and take a 3rd unit of dark riders with rxbs and no cmd options in their place, or a medusa and a biting blade for your bsb

Gooner
18-10-2013, 20:50
Ya lets be serious you won't even have enough power dice even with pod to cast all your spells.

naloth
20-10-2013, 02:46
Ya lets be serious you won't even have enough power dice even with pod to cast all your spells.

The point of two warlock units instead of one big one isn't necessarily to cast more spells. It's basically the same cost (1 warlock) and you end up with another channel and able to cover half the field with each unit. Also, since they are a somewhat fragile utility unit, I find that putting so many points together makes them a tasty target for shooting/magic/flying CC unit.

I've done a few tests and even when you don't have the dice, the second unit helps out in other ways (range, charge bait, vanguard for blocking, channel).

SteveW
20-10-2013, 15:45
The point of two warlock units instead of one big one isn't necessarily to cast more spells. It's basically the same cost (1 warlock) and you end up with another channel and able to cover half the field with each unit. Also, since they are a somewhat fragile utility unit, I find that putting so many points together makes them a tasty target for shooting/magic/flying CC unit.

I've done a few tests and even when you don't have the dice, the second unit helps out in other ways (range, charge bait, vanguard for blocking, channel).

I've played against them a few times and they make great warmachine/mage hunters in groups of 5 and you only need one alive to six dice their magic missile and blow up a horde of infantry.

With them on the field you don't need a level 2 though.

jarbo
20-10-2013, 23:34
Thanks for all the input guys, here is draft 3 based on suggestions.

Lv 4 life
black amulet/scroll

Master bsb
Heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloak, ring of hotek

master on peg
Heavy armor, shield, sea dragon cloak, lance, cloak of twilight

12 darkshards
banner, musician, flame banner

10 darkshards
musician

5 dark riders
RxB, shields and musician

5 dark riders
RxB, shields and musican

28 witch elves
full command and banner of swiftness

39 Executioners
full command and standard of disc

8 shades
great weapon and musician

bolt thrower

bolt thrower

bolt thrower
(thought about these guys, if I go against 1+ armies the executioners would do fine, but the rest of the army would struggle. These guys can help soften up monsters/monsterous cav/high armor etc)

5 warlocks

5 warlocks

Any new thoughts?

SteveW
21-10-2013, 01:12
Replace those those WE's with cold one knights and it's the list my buddy owns with and I have only been able to beat twice in eight tries.