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kilokalex
07-10-2013, 01:58
I am wondering if anyone things a new codex will come out? Let me kill one argument against a new codex real quick. Games workshop can't keep up. This is true but if they had 4 codexes right now than 7th edition would appear with one in 4th edition, one in 5th edition, one with 6th edition rules that you can never get a copy of and one being updated to 6th the month 7th is launched. I also know that games workshop hates adeptus machincus and lost and the damned so those are out. :( More than likely no new codex but I think a xenos alliance, space vampires or some rogue psyker mutant codex separate of chaos may come out. Does anyone think that a new codex could be in the works?

Archon of Death
07-10-2013, 02:01
Yes, Deathwatch.

ForgottenLore
07-10-2013, 02:23
I have been thinking it is a real possibility for a while now, and here is why.

For years now the annual financial statements have suggested that GW is loosing customers and has only been keeping profits up by raising prices, massive reorganizing and trimming their retail arm and the release of some big ticket items like 6th ed and a new range of paints that gave them a huge one-time boost. I have been thinking lately, what else could they do that would generate a large amount of profit for a year or two and the answer that comes to mind is a new army. If they come out with a popular new army they can get all their normal teenage sales from it, as well as all the veterans buying an entire army instead of just adding a few models to a collection. I don't know if my theorizing is right, but it would not surprise me to see a new army in the next 2 years.

Mortimer
07-10-2013, 02:41
It would surprise me if they did..

they released Tau and Necrons in times when they had enough money to risk introducing armies.

atm they dont.

if anything SoB will get a full model range and Death watch will get updated along with GK..

Chem-Dog
07-10-2013, 03:12
Scuttlebut from the studio via various and variably reputable sources says "they" (studio/board, I know not which) are happy with the number of factions available at the moment.

But balance this against the fact that current speed of Codex release will quickly see the outstanding armies covered (even with the minor extension of Codex supplements) and it's a distinct possibility, unless the hope is to shift focus to non army specific supplements such as a returnto Cities of Death, maybe a Spearhead book possibly even the "boarding action/ship-fight" format that was once rumoured. I'd put money on the Adeptus Mechanicus if a new faction is announced.

MajorWesJanson
07-10-2013, 03:19
Sisters of Battle would basically be a new army when added. They have less unique units/models than even Dark Eldar or Necrons before those were updated.

Charistoph
07-10-2013, 03:29
My LGS Manager is convinced of a rumor that once all the codices and army books are in hard back, both Fantasy and 40K will receive a new army.

Heck, there's room now that 40K's down a codex slot (and possible to drop another 3).

As for not being able to, heck, it's doable, but whether they CHOOSE to is a different story.

kilokalex
07-10-2013, 03:52
I keep hearing the inquisition rumor of deathwatch, sisters, and grey knights. This would be awesome, but that rumor started in 4th edition as far as I can remember. If it is a fantasy and 40k army like daemons what good they bridge that gap with? Daemons worked well enough but nothing I can think would do the same.

ForgottenLore
07-10-2013, 04:22
Heck, there's room now that 40K's down a codex slot
That is another good point, it is possible that BT were folded into vanilla marines to make room for another book.

Hendarion
07-10-2013, 06:24
Sisters of Battle would basically be a new army when added. They have less unique units/models than even Dark Eldar or Necrons before those were updated.
Yeay to Sisters... Faithwalkers and Faithsisters with freaking Faithblades made of Faithsteel, not to mention the famous Faithfighter and Faithbomber which should belong to the Navy, but in days where every buddy and his mom have flyers, they are a must.

Short answer:
There will be no new (new as in unknown yet) faction in 40k. What could happen (I doubt it) is more Marines (as in the format of Deathwatch).

Dkoz
07-10-2013, 08:30
I don't see GW eliminating any more armies, the marine army's they have now are distinct enough to deserve their own codex not just a supplement. In the 40K universe they could bring some long forgotten race out of the shadows and into a codex there are several to choose from.

Hendarion
07-10-2013, 10:41
They could, but they won't.

Sir Didymus
07-10-2013, 15:00
Yes, Deathwatch.

Well, since they 'killed' off the BT, they have room for a new marine army ;)

Merqu
07-10-2013, 15:36
The rumour for Codex:Alien Hunters/Deathwatch was during 3rd edition I believe. I think it may even have been mentioned in either the daemon hunter or witch hunter 'dex. Personally I feel that Deathwatch would work better as some kind of "universal supplement", where it would give the fluff of the Deathwatch and rules for the unit. That could be allied with any Imperium Army.

I believe in almost 1 year they've updated nearly half their armies. Any comment of not being able to handle the quantity is, IMO, incorrect. So even of they move to a double month release for certain armies (supposedly 'nids and if they do get updated def SoB) they should still have them all done in another 2 years, leaving 1 or 2 years in the 4/5 year BRB cycle... I feel that IF they release a new army they will play it safe with AdMech.

zero88
07-10-2013, 16:07
My bet is the full Sisters release will come before the Alien Hunters codex which has been rumored for what, like a decade now? The reasoning is that Sisters don't have THAT much to overhaul, and they have the bulk of the work done on the plastic molds (again, as of last rumor I heard)

Hendarion
07-10-2013, 16:43
Since the digital Codex:Sororitas is already announced and known to be just a rehash of the previous WD-Codex, it sounds unlikely that GW will flash them out properly once more in 6th.

Mortimer
07-10-2013, 16:51
Since the digital Codex:Sororitas is already announced and known to be just a rehash of the previous WD-Codex, it sounds unlikely that GW will flash them out properly once more in 6th.

Maybe they will get a full re-release for the 7th boxset.

Pit them against DE update or maybe Necrons update.. and they will make more money that way.. considering how well Chaos and DA sold after the 6th boxset, they could afford to give new unit to C:AS and FC the rest

MajorWesJanson
07-10-2013, 17:51
Heck, there's room now that 40K's down a codex slot (and possible to drop another 3).

Well, possible to drop another 5. With the amount of work and fluff to blend BA, DA, and SW back into Codex: SM, you could/should also blend Eldar and Dark Eldar together, and CSM and Daemons back together. All are about as likely.

40K is officially down a codex slot, but that has been operating with Sisters of Battle not taking up a proper Codex slot, so giving them a new book would bring things back to functionally the same numbers.

Spider-pope
07-10-2013, 18:10
My bet is the full Sisters release will come before the Alien Hunters codex which has been rumored for what, like a decade now? The reasoning is that Sisters don't have THAT much to overhaul, and they have the bulk of the work done on the plastic molds (again, as of last rumor I heard)

Given that the developers who said the Alien Hunters book was coming left the studio quite some time ago, along with both of it's sister books being dropped and their forces reintroduced as their own factions, i really, really wouldn't bet on it ever coming about.

They could introduce a new race, but it'd have to have its own niche to fill. Necrons filled in the Undead gap, Tau brought in more anime-ish inspired aesthetic. So anything new would have to do something similar.

brionl
07-10-2013, 18:10
They're bringing back Squats.

BigRob
07-10-2013, 18:16
Personally I clamour for Codex Yu'Vath.

But that is just me. I doubt they will bring out anything new, just raise prices, lower model count and have "yet another" item retconned into the existing armies.

Charistoph
07-10-2013, 18:39
Well, possible to drop another 5. With the amount of work and fluff to blend BA, DA, and SW back into Codex: SM, you could/should also blend Eldar and Dark Eldar together, and CSM and Daemons back together. All are about as likely.
Not quite. The now 4 SM codices already share 70-90% of their equipment. The units are also similarly constructed (Space Wolves being the quirkiest). Both Eldar only share a very small percentage of equipment, and that's if you ignore the names of Bright Lance and Dark Lance, and their unit construction diverges quickly. The only similarity between the Chaos Marines and the Chaos Daemons is the 4 Gods.


40K is officially down a codex slot, but that has been operating with Sisters of Battle not taking up a proper Codex slot, so giving them a new book would bring things back to functionally the same numbers.

Then they are officially down 2 codex slots, but tht's only if you're looking at a target codex number of 16.

Heck, with these Supplements, we may not even see another army introduced...

Grndhog89
07-10-2013, 19:02
Just give me my Lost and the Damned back.

Lord Damocles
07-10-2013, 19:17
Calling it now: return of the Pisceans.

Voss
07-10-2013, 19:25
Except 40K really isn't 'down' a codex slot. This isn't about BT as an army, but the reality is they received a Codex all of once in the entire span of 40K. After that single instance, they were never part of the codex cycle, unlike Tau which were updated twice, or even Necrons and Dark Eldar, which also stayed stagnant for years before a modern update.

Given the armies that really need to be updated, like Orks and Sisters (a real update mind), and the inevitable post-new SM codex for Wolves and BA, and the Guard and Nids that are supposedly already in pipeline, there isn't really more room before the cycle restarts.

If they want to do an new army, it won't be because an army they never updated got folded into the SM codex. It hardly counts as 'more room' any more than the lost and the damned count as 'more room.' Or the AM unit rules (like the electro priests) in the 2nd edition boxed set

DoctorTom
07-10-2013, 19:45
Maybe they'll do Eldar Exodites, since they could partially use some of the Eldar figures, but can add a bunch of new dinosaurish type figures to 40k. Given the existence of the Heldrake, I wouldn't be surprised if we get some 40k dinosaurs at some point.

I doubt they'll do squats (unfortunately), but if they do Adeptus Mechanicus you could use that as a list for them (getting figures from elsewhee).

Charistoph
07-10-2013, 20:33
Except 40K really isn't 'down' a codex slot. This isn't about BT as an army, but the reality is they received a Codex all of once in the entire span of 40K. After that single instance, they were never part of the codex cycle, unlike Tau which were updated twice, or even Necrons and Dark Eldar, which also stayed stagnant for years before a modern update.

Until this last codex was started, Black Templar were as much a part of the 'codex cycle' as Necrons and Dark Eldar were in 4th and a majority of 5th. That's a pretty harsh judgement on what was the youngest full codex on the list. You also forget that Codex: Black Templars WAS the update.


Given the armies that really need to be updated, like Orks and Sisters (a real update mind), and the inevitable post-new SM codex for Wolves and BA, and the Guard and Nids that are supposedly already in pipeline, there isn't really more room before the cycle restarts.
As if it was an actual cycle that is being used. There is an apparent cycle for some armies: Space Marines, Tyranids, and Blood Angels seem the only ones to have gotten updates of one kind or another every Edition.

As for the length of a cycle, it's as long and as roomy as GW chooses. We may not see 7th for another 4-6 years (unlikelier the farther out it is), which at the current release rate is more than fast enough to fit 16 codices, as well as 16 army books, in to.


If they want to do an new army, it won't be because an army they never updated got folded into the SM codex. It hardly counts as 'more room' any more than the lost and the damned count as 'more room.' Or the AM unit rules (like the electro priests) in the 2nd edition boxed set
Not quite. If they have one less codex to be on their plate, that's more creative room where they can be imaginative with (or steal concepts from other sources as usual). It allows for greater diversity. One advantage that Fantasy has is that no 2 armies operate as closely as do the Space Marines in 40K.


The one advantage that all these extra marine codices have is a reduced strain on developmental resources. They already share a model line with 3 other codices, at least to a point. A completely separate codex army would actually be a greater strain due the extensive model lines that would have to be created, copywrighted, and produced with demand to keep them up.

TheDungen
07-10-2013, 20:48
We should be happy if they don't eliminate the sisters. I doubt we'll see another army.

Rated_lexxx
07-10-2013, 20:51
It would surprise me if they did..

they released Tau and Necrons in times when they had enough money to risk introducing armies.

atm they dont.

if anything SoB will get a full model range and Death watch will get updated along with GK..


Well necrons have been around since 2nd ed albeit a very small skirmish army

Dkoz
07-10-2013, 21:16
They're bringing back Squats.

I hear the same thing, GW is going to bring squats back.

Menthak
07-10-2013, 21:28
Nope. Variety is bad(!).

Sephillion
07-10-2013, 21:35
Scuttlebut from the studio via various and variably reputable sources says "they" (studio/board, I know not which) are happy with the number of factions available at the moment.

But balance this against the fact that current speed of Codex release will quickly see the outstanding armies covered (even with the minor extension of Codex supplements) and it's a distinct possibility, unless the hope is to shift focus to non army specific supplements such as a returnto Cities of Death, maybe a Spearhead book possibly even the "boarding action/ship-fight" format that was once rumoured. I'd put money on the Adeptus Mechanicus if a new faction is announced.

Maybe the pace of Codex release will slow down, so far, apart from Space Marines who always get new edition treatment, all have been 4th editions codex. Maybe the pace will slow down a bit (according to rumours, the next is nids in January).

Otherwise, they might go the Warmahordes route and introduce supplements with new models. That would make sense, otherwise we’re looking at a 3-4 years edition lifespan, which seem awfully short given the price hikes in books.

I think Warmahordes-like expansion are more likely than a new faction.

If it happens, I bet they will make a full-fledged Ecclesiarchy or Inqusition army, but I’d rather have a new Xenos race…

Poseidal
07-10-2013, 23:50
Calling it now: return of the Pisceans.

Codex: Aquamarines?

Archon of Death
08-10-2013, 00:26
To be honest what I want to see them make the following:

Codex: Forces of the Inquisition (Including Sisters, Deathwatch, and Grey Knights with Inquisitors and Assassins done in a way that can allow for dedicated armies or mixed ones, possibly based on HQ choices)
Codex: Mechanicus (Including the forces of the Adeptus Mechanicus)
Codex: Renegades (Chaos setups for renegade guard, Dark Mechanicus, etc)
Codex: Demiurg (Squats, but more designed for the dark future 40k is)
Codex: Xenos (Either a mix of similar Xenos, or something or other, potentially all the Chaos bound ones or.... meh anything really)
Codex: Harlequins (Come on they were soooo much better back in 3rd as their own army)
Codex: Kroot (Yeah, as their own thing, with Battle Brothers with Tau)

But at the same time I still want to see GW make Armored Companies into a thing without being denied playing FW rules because for whatever reason everyone considers an army that cannot hold objectives to be OP.

Gurrfang
08-10-2013, 00:50
Codex: Inquisition. I just like inquisitors :p.

Zothos
08-10-2013, 03:28
If they ever do, I pray that is not yet another imperial subfaction. Far too many as it is.

More xenos would be far, far better. Would be nice to see something new and imaginative.

Hendarion
08-10-2013, 05:44
Well necrons have been around since 2nd ed albeit a very small skirmish army
At the dusk of 2nd in 1988 as a White Dwarf "Codex". 3rd also came 1988 shortly after and although the book included all armies, it didn't include Necrons (or Sisters/Grey Knights iirc). Actually in 2nd they had 1 HQ, 1 elite and 1 troops. :p Not really a Codex or army. Even Harlequins had more units back then (with the list from the Citadel Journal taken into account).

Randomman
08-10-2013, 06:42
I think the nail has been hit on the head already.

Use current model range - check
Power boost best profit making models such as crisis suits or wraith guard - check
Introduce said models as a troops choice - check
Charge £30 for 2 pages of rules and 100 pages of Matt Ward Fluff - Check

Supplements are the future my friends, I hope they get better though.

Nymie_the_Pooh
08-10-2013, 07:02
It would not be easy. I was reading a recent interview with Andy Chambers and in that he mentioned that Tau as a society was barely big enough to support its own codex when it was released in third edition. They still are not that spread out and most of the fighting they do is exploring into nearby systems or other races coming to them. There are many species of Xenos out there, but there are not any that I am aware of that are as large as the Tau Empire which do not already have their own codex.

I would love another Xenos codex, but they would need an explanation for why there are enough to spread their forces about without them being a major player before. They did the ancient race returning when they gave the Necrons their first real codex, and the new race that surprised the Imperium with the rate of their development and growth for the Tau already. Tyranids are from outside the system. Some sort of combined races book could work and would give them all kinds of flexibility. Eldar and Necrons both started as raiders/pirates, so having an army that is a mix of races that are raiders and/or pirates would fit with Games Workshop's history for alien races. The problem there is the kits as since they would be mixed races then there might not be a bunch of mixing of bits between the units and there would not be one basic kit that could easily fill multiple slots in the army. This discourages multi-part kits so less variety out of the box and means they would have to produce a whole new army for scratch. Something like a mixed races codex might work better as a series of supplements that would ally with the existing codecs.

The third edition big rulebook did have a list for Sisters. One HQ, four units, and two vehicles if you count the rhino. Grae Knights weren't in there, but I seem to remember them existing before. That might have just been in the fluff. Inquisitors along with priests and assassins had their own list that seemed to sort of tack onto any of the Imperial lists in the book. Harlequin weren't in the big rule book but did receive a set of Experimental Rules in third written by Gav Thorpe. That's the only Harlequin since second edition outside of them being folded into the Eldar/Dark Eldar that I am aware of.

MajorWesJanson
08-10-2013, 07:19
Until this last codex was started, Black Templar were as much a part of the 'codex cycle' as Necrons and Dark Eldar were in 4th and a majority of 5th. That's a pretty harsh judgement on what was the youngest full codex on the list. You also forget that Codex: Black Templars WAS the update.

Templars had one book dedicated to them, and then it was decided to merge them back in to Codex: Space Marines. The same thing happened to Catachans and Craftworld Eldar as well, who both had seperate books and then were rolled back into the codex they spawned from. Regardless of some peoples' opinions on what should/could happen, or on the fairness of the matter, Black Templars were merged into Codex: SM, but Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves will likely continue as separate books, as there is no real business, rules, or fluff reasons to roll them into the Marine book considering the current state of the armies in question.


Charge £30 for 2 pages of rules and 100 pages of Matt Ward Fluff - Check

Supplements are the future my friends, I hope they get better though.

The supplements we have gotten so far are rather good, and the recent examples of "Mat Ward fluff" have been good as well- Sisters of Battle, Codex Iyanden. It seems like more people are having issues with fluff Cruddace has written recently- Iron Hands, Black Templars changes, and with Phil Kelly for rules- Hell Drakes, Wave Serpents, Thousand Sons, Howling Banshees, yet Mat Ward still is the subject of stupid jokes and misplaced blame.

Poseidal
08-10-2013, 07:34
At the dusk of 2nd in 1988 as a White Dwarf "Codex". 3rd also came 1988 shortly after and although the book included all armies, it didn't include Necrons (or Sisters/Grey Knights iirc). Actually in 2nd they had 1 HQ, 1 elite and 1 troops. :p Not really a Codex or army. Even Harlequins had more units back then (with the list from the Citadel Journal taken into account).

3rd ed actually did include Sisters in the core book.

Necrons existed in Space Crusade albeit as Chaos Androids IIRC.

Hendarion
08-10-2013, 07:43
Well, Chaos Androids != Necrons. They shared a similar design and that's probably what they expanded on. But they weren't Necrons at all. Good to know sisters had been in the core book, too much time passed. :)

Spider-pope
08-10-2013, 09:29
At the dusk of 2nd in 1988 as a White Dwarf "Codex". 3rd also came 1988 shortly after and although the book included all armies, it didn't include Necrons (or Sisters/Grey Knights iirc). Actually in 2nd they had 1 HQ, 1 elite and 1 troops. :p Not really a Codex or army. Even Harlequins had more units back then (with the list from the Citadel Journal taken into account).

Actually by the end of 2nd edition they had 1 HQ (Lord), 1 Elites (Immortal), 2 Troops (Warriors, Scarabs) and a Heavy Support (Destroyer). Which is about the same as Sisters of Battle during that time.

Poseidal
08-10-2013, 10:37
Sisters had a reasonably unique vehicle (Immolator) at the time, on top of access to Rhinos, and the priest/confessor characters as well. The units also had weapon options which IIRC the Necron ones did not (the other army without 'weapon options' in 2nd ed instead had a much larger selection of units available to them than average).

TheBearminator
08-10-2013, 10:48
Well, since they 'killed' off the BT, they have room for a new marine army ;)

Since they've killed off the BT, they have room for something completely different! Zombie truckers, ginger kids or crab people! :)

Menthak
08-10-2013, 13:01
I would love another Xenos codex, but they would need an explanation for why there are enough to spread their forces about without them being a major player before. They did the ancient race returning when they gave the Necrons their first real codex, and the new race that surprised the Imperium with the rate of their development and growth for the Tau already. Tyranids are from outside the system. Some sort of combined races book could work and would give them all kinds of flexibility. Eldar and Necrons both started as raiders/pirates, so having an army that is a mix of races that are raiders and/or pirates would fit with Games Workshop's history for alien races. The problem there is the kits as since they would be mixed races then there might not be a bunch of mixing of bits between the units and there would not be one basic kit that could easily fill multiple slots in the army. This discourages multi-part kits so less variety out of the box and means they would have to produce a whole new army for scratch. Something like a mixed races codex might work better as a series of supplements that would ally with the existing codecs

I'd say Hrud, spread out, unseen, recently united under banners and are now a tangible threat.


yet Mat Ward still is the subject of stupid jokes and misplaced blame.

It's misplaced, but it's hard to forget C:GK

A.T.
08-10-2013, 13:41
Actually by the end of 2nd edition they had 1 HQ (Lord), 1 Elites (Immortal), 2 Troops (Warriors, Scarabs) and a Heavy Support (Destroyer). Which is about the same as Sisters of Battle during that time.Sisters had 6 HQs (8 if you include all ranks of missionary), 3 squads, 2 vehicles, 5 characters, a bodyguard unit (proto-celestians) and a standard bearer. It completely lacked heavy support though (and the codex stated outright that you would be screwed in a full-sized battle).



The Slaugth are a particularly dangerous faction in the fluff.

Rated_lexxx
08-10-2013, 13:47
At the dusk of 2nd in 1988 as a White Dwarf "Codex". 3rd also came 1988 shortly after and although the book included all armies, it didn't include Necrons (or Sisters/Grey Knights iirc). Actually in 2nd they had 1 HQ, 1 elite and 1 troops. :p Not really a Codex or army. Even Harlequins had more units back then (with the list from the Citadel Journal taken into account).

Didn't say they were more then that :)

A white dwarf came out quickly after 3rd to update necrons for 3rd though

angelismortis
08-10-2013, 14:38
It would not be easy. I was reading a recent interview with Andy Chambers and in that he mentioned that Tau as a society was barely big enough to support its own codex when it was released in third edition. They still are not that spread out and most of the fighting they do is exploring into nearby systems or other races coming to them. There are many species of Xenos out there, but there are not any that I am aware of that are as large as the Tau Empire which do not already have their own codex.

I would love another Xenos codex, but they would need an explanation for why there are enough to spread their forces about without them being a major player before. They did the ancient race returning when they gave the Necrons their first real codex, and the new race that surprised the Imperium with the rate of their development and growth for the Tau already. Tyranids are from outside the system. Some sort of combined races book could work and would give them all kinds of flexibility. Eldar and Necrons both started as raiders/pirates, so having an army that is a mix of races that are raiders and/or pirates would fit with Games Workshop's history for alien races. The problem there is the kits as since they would be mixed races then there might not be a bunch of mixing of bits between the units and there would not be one basic kit that could easily fill multiple slots in the army. This discourages multi-part kits so less variety out of the box and means they would have to produce a whole new army for scratch. Something like a mixed races codex might work better as a series of supplements that would ally with the existing codecs.

The third edition big rulebook did have a list for Sisters. One HQ, four units, and two vehicles if you count the rhino. Grae Knights weren't in there, but I seem to remember them existing before. That might have just been in the fluff. Inquisitors along with priests and assassins had their own list that seemed to sort of tack onto any of the Imperial lists in the book. Harlequin weren't in the big rule book but did receive a set of Experimental Rules in third written by Gav Thorpe. That's the only Harlequin since second edition outside of them being folded into the Eldar/Dark Eldar that I am aware of.

I think Grey Knights may have been in the Imperial Agents book in 2E.

Nymie_the_Pooh
08-10-2013, 14:40
I think Grey Knights may have been in the Imperial Agents book in 2E.

That's what I was thinking as well, but I wasn't going to dig for the information and don't trust my memory overly much after so long. Thanks for the information.

Hendarion
08-10-2013, 14:51
Actually by the end of 2nd edition they had 1 HQ (Lord), 1 Elites (Immortal), 2 Troops (Warriors, Scarabs) and a Heavy Support (Destroyer). Which is about the same as Sisters of Battle during that time.
Destroyers and Scarabs got added in 3rd if I remember correctly.

Rated_lexxx
08-10-2013, 16:16
Destroyers and Scarabs got added in 3rd if I remember correctly.

they were in 2nd

the scarabs use to reduce armor on vehicles and the destroyers looked like those pool floats that where chairs

Hendarion
08-10-2013, 17:03
My records and google say differently, but it ain't important that much.

TheDungen
08-10-2013, 17:45
Templars had one book dedicated to them, and then it was decided to merge them back in to Codex: Space Marines. The same thing happened to Catachans and Craftworld Eldar as well, who both had seperate books and then were rolled back into the codex they spawned from. Regardless of some peoples' opinions on what should/could happen, or on the fairness of the matter, Black Templars were merged into Codex: SM, but Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves will likely continue as separate books, as there is no real business, rules, or fluff reasons to roll them into the Marine book considering the current state of the armies in question.



The supplements we have gotten so far are rather good, and the recent examples of "Mat Ward fluff" have been good as well- Sisters of Battle, Codex Iyanden. It seems like more people are having issues with fluff Cruddace has written recently- Iron Hands, Black Templars changes, and with Phil Kelly for rules- Hell Drakes, Wave Serpents, Thousand Sons, Howling Banshees, yet Mat Ward still is the subject of stupid jokes and misplaced blame.

It's not 40k but floating continents? not to mention making HE into eldar. The reason ward isnt screwing up 40k is that he's writing warhammer fantasy books.

Lord Zarkov
08-10-2013, 18:10
It's not 40k but floating continents? not to mention making HE into eldar. The reason ward isnt screwing up 40k is that he's writing warhammer fantasy books.
Ulthran's been floating for years, it's not a Matt Wardism. In Giantslayer (early 2000s) the reason Teclis gets involved in the plot is that something is disturbing the spells that keep it floating.

TheDungen
08-10-2013, 18:28
No it has 'magically been kept above the waves' that could meant magic is what keeps the vortex from crumbling the rock foundation of the continent. Now they made it to accctually floating as in not attached thge he bedrock in any place.

And it's more than that, given them soulstones like they were eldar. couple that with that ulthuan is now a craftworld... annoying as hell. I hope he goes back to screwing up space marine codexes soon.

Rated_lexxx
08-10-2013, 18:29
My records and google say differently, but it ain't important that much.

The only reason I even know is I was playing necrons in 2nd and ripped a dreadnaught apart with scarabs :)

The rules for these were first published in White Dwarf Issue 216 towards the end of the lifespan of the second edition of Warhammer 40,000

At the time, only Necron Warriors and Scarabs were given game rules and the warriors were armed with Gauss-Flayer Guns

This was quickly followed up with an expanded army list in the following month's issue. The Necron Lord and Necron Destroyer were part of this slightly-expanded army list.

Lord Zarkov
08-10-2013, 22:07
No it has 'magically been kept above the waves' that could meant magic is what keeps the vortex from crumbling the rock foundation of the continent. Now they made it to accctually floating as in not attached thge he bedrock in any place.

And it's more than that, given them soulstones like they were eldar. couple that with that ulthuan is now a craftworld... annoying as hell. I hope he goes back to screwing up space marine codexes soon.
It could be, but I think magically floating is heavily implied.

I agree the soulstones thing its stupid though - I wonder if they'll get an Avatar next edition :p

TheDungen
08-10-2013, 23:54
It could be, but I think magically floating is heavily implied.

I agree the soulstones thing its stupid though - I wonder if they'll get an Avatar next edition :p

the phrasing was "kept it from sinking beneth the waves" nothing more nothing less. It's posisble they intended it to be floating but it to me it's far to fantastic an explanation. I like my fantasy grounded and muddy. I like the mordheim era warhammer (especially empire in flames). But we've gotten far of topic.

I doubt we'll see such overblown fluff like in 5th again, the fact that they have tempered it some seems to me they heard the complaints and reacted to them. I agree they'll likely go the supplement way in the short term future at least rather than new armies.

Abaraxas
09-10-2013, 00:33
I think Grey Knights may have been in the Imperial Agents book in 2E.

Yes, but they were treated as a level 1 psyker-more fleshed out rules (upgrades to levels 2-4) are in Dark Millenium.

Id obviously like to see Space Dwarfs/Squats return, but going for a more realistic wish Id like Space Skaven/Hrud, and or Ad Mech which could be done in a supplement or like ye good olde black codex imperial agents list from 2nd.

angelismortis
09-10-2013, 00:57
Yes, but they were treated as a level 1 psyker-more fleshed out rules (upgrades to levels 2-4) are in Dark Millenium.

Id obviously like to see Space Dwarfs/Squats return, but going for a more realistic wish Id like Space Skaven/Hrud, and or Ad Mech which could be done in a supplement or like ye good olde black codex imperial agents list from 2nd.

Thanks, I forgot about Dark Millennium.

htsmithium
09-10-2013, 01:12
the hardest part would be finding a new theme that is different enough both in fluff and gameplay terms to stand out. to be honest having never played squats the idea of space dwarfs really holds no appeal to me, and while admech could be interesting I'd rather get another non-imperial army. the only thing I can think up at the moment would be the Yu'Vath from rough trader. but they kind of would be a repeat of the ancient horror brought back theme.
the only other idea I got is perhaps a pre imperial crusade enters the scene. human stats But totally STC divergent and come back to civilized space to find the galaxy they left is now this dark places worshiping what they consider false gods and wallowing in decaying tech. not sure how they would work, but hey it's an idea.
or...the old ones return!

Archon of Death
09-10-2013, 01:26
If they want to go for something really cool I'd love to see a debuff army, especially one with a lot of template and blast weapons. Debuff would be amazing for gameplay, if a bit complex.

So, elaborating on this, Buff debuff would be something like:

Neutral: Creating difficult/dangerous/impassible terrain for a turn and creating cover for a turn
Buff: Granting special rules to your units (FNP, Armourbane, hatred, etc), things like giving a boost to Toughness, Strength, WS/BS, A could be limited to no more than 1 or 2 points, alternatively there could be no limit and everyone is running around with 2s in the army, yet I'd expect something more like 2-5s for stats so a limit of maybe +1 to T/S/WS/BS/A for a unit targeted, while no limit to a single model targeted (yeah that does lead to some superawesome spam but, eh, it would take multiple shots hitting to get it that awesome and that's an every turn thing), maybe some kind of obfuscation stuff.
Debuff: -1 to certain stats (Not W) on enemy units, stat tests, etc. AA rocking forced grounding checks and stuff like that.

Oh and with all of this I would assume these would be special and heavy weapons granting these things, and along this line I could easily see Lance use.

Swoop
09-10-2013, 04:35
Fairly certain Gray Knights had a full army list in one of the Realms of Chaos books. I no longer have my copies so can't confirm.

Zustiur
09-10-2013, 10:39
Hrud seem to get the most frequent mentions in the fluff so I've been expecting them to turn up at some point. Perhaps exodite eldar though?

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Sin Eater
09-10-2013, 11:27
Hey I have a grey Knight model from way back in Rogue Trader days? ALright they didn't have a codex but no one did...


I would say the guy that mentioned a mixed race army of Pirates is awsome! I know the hardcore would *Sigh* at this but screw them and their tourni ideals of if it aint uber powerful and cheap spam it's useless theories.

Ahhh space pirates...I suppose Dark Eldar do kind of fit this theme though?

Lord Damocles
09-10-2013, 18:49
I would say the guy that mentioned a mixed race army of Pirates is awsome! I know the hardcore would *Sigh* at this but screw them and their tourni ideals of if it aint uber powerful and cheap spam it's useless theories.
Wait, what?

DoctorTom
09-10-2013, 19:02
Hrud seem to get the most frequent mentions in the fluff so I've been expecting them to turn up at some point. Perhaps exodite eldar though?

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Exodite Eldar wouldn't surprise me since they did have a list in Citadel Journal at one point; they could use that as a starting point.

Hendarion
10-10-2013, 06:10
Exodits did have a Journal list? I only know they had been integrated in 2nd Ed Codex and Harlequins had a Journal list. Which number did that journal have and which units were included?

Ironpit
10-10-2013, 10:08
GW is already testing the Water for Adeptus Mechanicus with the Forge World Horus Heresy Books.
I guess if the Forge World Modells sell well, they will bring out a Codex for them.

Soldado
10-10-2013, 12:52
I'd like to see some xenos/renegade/mercenary codex. Not chaos renegade/IG, for that we have codex IG and the FW IG renegades list.

Muad'Dib
10-10-2013, 16:51
I would say the guy that mentioned a mixed race army of Pirates is awsome! I know the hardcore would *Sigh* at this but screw them and their tourni ideals of if it aint uber powerful and cheap spam it's useless theories.


Wait, what?
I see you're not aware that some 40k (and GW in general) players are distinguished by their chilled "beer and pretzels" attitude that they channel into sublime enjoyment of the game. Those that lack it are, sadly, powergamers (or the hardcore).
If you have to ask what does "beer and pretzels" really mean, then chances are that you just don't get it. :>

Randomman
10-10-2013, 17:01
I'm more a beer and pizza man myself.

As for what I would like to see, funnily enough some more Xenos. Its just hard to find a hole to fit them in, currently having:

Tau: Fine shooting
Orks: Blunt Instrument
Eldar/Dark Eldar: Eloquent scalpel
Nids: Fine Combat
Crons: Cheese

The Imperium armies fill the Super Soldier/Strength in numbers criteria too - I'm struggling to find what's left.

DoctorTom
10-10-2013, 19:21
Exodits did have a Journal list? I only know they had been integrated in 2nd Ed Codex and Harlequins had a Journal list. Which number did that journal have and which units were included?

Citadel Journal 12. Some exodites on foot, exodites riding different types of dinosaurs, and they had what would probably now be a Wraithknight.

Archon of Death
10-10-2013, 19:47
I'd pick up harlequins if it were like the WD version back in 3rd, they were awesome. Lets see, the Imperium should have IG, SM, AM, =I=, the Eldar should have DE, E, EE, H, Chaos should have CD, CSM, X, X, finally the Xenos deserve T, N, O, X. That would be 16 armies, 4 being Imperial, 4 Chaos, 4 Eldar, and 4 Xenos. Renegade Guard and Dark Mechanicus would be good for Chaos, and something else would be good for Xenos (Maybe Squats, maybe something new, it depends if Squats are done as a very different force or if they're done too Imperial-esque). I think this would allow for a nice balance between the forces of 40k.

As for the type of player, I'm more the beer and pretzels. I even do that in Magic, I build decks that are interesting conceptually and, according to my friends, extremely dangerous. However I tend to get to a point where I should win or cannot be beaten, then I suicide out of the game XD