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View Full Version : Is there a polite way to stretch the potential of the $60 dollar witch elf box?



Blkc57
07-10-2013, 03:55
After looking at the witch elves in the new DE book I would really love to make an army of those, but at $6 dollars a fig there is no way I can afford that. Would it be considered uncouth to take a single witch elf place her on a 40mm base and say it's a filler for 4 of them? Does anyone have any creative ideas to use those 10 models to stretch them out a bit more to fill an army? LIke maybe some unit filler ideas and such? I don't want to be "that guy" who just place a zombie hand on a base and calls it a day, but for the love of Khaine, $60 for 10 is killing me here.

Sotek
07-10-2013, 04:33
I think if you used a few fillers it's ok. But having all 10 of them on 40mm bases is pushing it. At the least you'd need a front rank and back rank, then the middle 2 ranks could be fillers.

SteveW
07-10-2013, 06:07
You could just be happy you're not paying $33 for 5 anymore.

Spiney Norman
07-10-2013, 08:36
Maybe if you make a few cool dioramas of individual witch elves murdering unsuspecting victims on a 40mm base that would make the unit visually interesting without making it look sparse (as a single model in the middle of a 40mm tends to do), if you can get hold of the running man from the giant kit, or some other spare part you could use as a casualty that would make a pretty cool unit filler.

Mithras69
07-10-2013, 08:47
Search ebay for cheap old metal witches and mix them in with the new ones?

StygianBeach
07-10-2013, 09:10
After looking at the witch elves in the new DE book I would really love to make an army of those, but at $6 dollars a fig there is no way I can afford that. Would it be considered uncouth to take a single witch elf place her on a 40mm base and say it's a filler for 4 of them?

1 lone Witch elf on a 40mm base.. hmmm... 3 on 40mm base is barely noticeable in a unit.

Urgat
07-10-2013, 09:28
Maybe if you make a few cool dioramas of individual witch elves murdering unsuspecting victims on a 40mm base
Unsuspecting? In the middle of a WE unit? :p

Rakariel
07-10-2013, 09:29
I`m trying to stretch them aswell. The first rank will be five models as usual but for the following ranks I will alternately put one Welf on two bases (not every single one but some atleast). They are very dynamic sculpts so it doesn`t look out of place if its not a coherent unit (with all their frenzy and so on). In a horde I would put in one or even two 40mm bases aswell. I made a draft to see if it did make sense. It did look pretty good and would save me about 15 Welfs.

MyNameDidntFit
07-10-2013, 09:39
All you have to do is answer the two questions that any reasonable non-tournament player is going to ask:

1) Is it confusing to look at? (ie. is it easy to see, at a glance, exactly how many models are in the unit?)
2) Does it look good? (ie. does it look more like a creative piece of hobby than a money-stretcher?)

If the answer to those are "no" and "yes" then you're fine for friendly play.

zoggin-eck
07-10-2013, 09:39
Personally I couldn't care less, it's your army. Go nuts on unit fillers. Use a bunch of spare bases painted up like the rest of the army with the odd scenery/discarded weapon etc and mix it in. I actually prefer that to multi-basing. That way you can take them out after that first round of shooting. Kind of like picking out the worst painted/unfinished models first as casualties!

I do prefer actual miniatures in my armies, and I'd probably round up whatever spare homeless (unitless?) models I have and add them to the unit.

If you really like the models, pick up an extra work shift, save up a bit more or go without something else for a couple of weeks (if I go on that diet I said I would, then I can afford new models! Forget that losing weight jive!), go hunting second-hand older models and so on. Plenty of options.


Unsuspecting? In the middle of a WE unit? :p

Yeah, whatever happens to him, he probably deserves it if he's that dumb.

Dranthar
07-10-2013, 12:10
I would add some cheap sacrificial slave type models to bulk out the unit. So when they first take casualties they're actually just throwing the slaves into harms way. ;)

IcedCrow
07-10-2013, 12:14
I'm doing 2x2 squares of crucified victims for my back rank. 20 witch elf models and then 5 of those = unit of 30.

Spiney Norman
07-10-2013, 15:18
I`m trying to stretch them aswell. The first rank will be five models as usual but for the following ranks I will alternately put one Welf on two bases (not every single one but some atleast). They are very dynamic sculpts so it doesn`t look out of place if its not a coherent unit (with all their frenzy and so on). In a horde I would put in one or even two 40mm bases aswell. I made a draft to see if it did make sense. It did look pretty good and would save me about 15 Welfs.

If I remember correctly there was an Empire army featured in white dwarf not so long ago, which basically contained a unit of greatswords where literally every other base was just a place holder and the unit only contained half the number of models it was played as. If I remember it was a staff army too...

Odin
07-10-2013, 15:26
Personally I think nobody should buy the Witch Elf unit at all until GW stop taking the ****, but boycotts don't seem to actually happen so I'd be reasonably happy with any attempt to field a WE unit without getting completely screwed. One WE standing on a 200mm x 100mm base? Fine.

BramGaunt
07-10-2013, 15:29
Use DE Wyches instead.

tankrothchild
07-10-2013, 17:30
Unit fillers. Put one model on a Cav base, put one or 2 on 40mm bases. Some ruins as filler. An old witch elf model painted like a statue. Substitute witch elves with some daemonettes, probably would want to lose the claw arms though. Unit fillers is the only way us modest salary players can afford this hobby.

I've found as prices skyrocket players are so much more accepting of unit fillers and are actually welcome the idea. I've had multiple people compliment mine and said "wow that is an excellent idea, I'm gonna do that!"

Blkc57
07-10-2013, 19:56
Thanks guys, my friend has a few old high elf models he doesn't use anymore, maybe I can do something with those to show them being sacrificed or at least enslaved. Bulking out a witch elf and a few high elf fighters on a 40 mm base as a diorama.

Rakariel
07-10-2013, 20:24
If I remember correctly there was an Empire army featured in white dwarf not so long ago, which basically contained a unit of greatswords where literally every other base was just a place holder and the unit only contained half the number of models it was played as. If I remember it was a staff army too...
This is getting more and more common in my area. No only does it save you some fair amount of cash it also looks better overall, breaths life into your army if done properly. I think I saw a Bret army in one of the WDs that had a giant Dragons skeleton in one of their Men at Arm blocks, looked cool.

Spider
07-10-2013, 20:25
How about using the original (wheeled and chariot sized) Cauldron as a unit filler.

I imagine ebay will have one or two, that would be good for at least a chariot sized base worth number of overpriced W'elves.


Addendum, Ebay has them but they cost more than the plastic elves. I had no idea.

I need to dig mine out.

outbreak
07-10-2013, 21:01
How about using the original (wheeled and chariot sized) Cauldron as a unit filler.

I imagine ebay will have one or two, that would be good for at least a chariot sized base worth number of overpriced W'elves.


Addendum, Ebay has them but they cost more than the plastic elves. I had no idea.

I need to dig mine out.

I've seen them cheap on ebay if you mean the OLD one not the last one with the big statue. Was going to say it'd fit well. If not I'd grab a chariot base and make a little diorama of a tied up high elf with a blood covered block in front of him and a witch elf next to him with an axe\sword ready to take his head off. Can easily make some simple dioramas, hell even just a piece of ruined masonry wouldn't look terrible and is understandable with the current GW prices and required unit sizes.

CrystalSphere
07-10-2013, 22:35
Put one miniature in each base, but leaving one space with an empty base, so it would look like: Witch-empty-Witch-empty-Witch. The second rank would go the other way around. This way the unit still looks similar, and you get all the proper bases (i hate bigger bases for playing), so no problems with base aligning or casualty removal.

Feefait
08-10-2013, 01:47
Check through the painting logs for some good unit filler ideas. I have no problem whatsoever with fillers, but it would be cool for them to look thematic.

Nymie_the_Pooh
08-10-2013, 06:35
I'd say if you were just playing friends then buy a box and model them as normal. Then fill out the rest of the unit with blank 20mm bases. The problem with going with the 40mm bases is you still need singles so you can swap models back and forth. Another option if you can't get used models is to buy a box of Dark Eldar Wyches. With the dual nature of the box you might be able to find the Witch heads online if you don't want to use the Wych heads and put a melee weapon in place of the pistols then mix them in with the normal Witches.

Sexiest_hero
09-10-2013, 23:33
Use DE Wyches instead. This times 100!

Forse
10-10-2013, 00:06
There are lots of good suggestions here, and spreading them out, like 2 or 3 on a 40mm base probably looks best. Or using clever unit fillers. But at the end of the day, what Odin says is correct:
Personally I think nobody should buy the Witch Elf unit at all until GW stop taking the ****, but boycotts don't seem to actually happen so I'd be reasonably happy with any attempt to field a WE unit without getting completely screwed. One WE standing on a 200mm x 100mm base? Fine.
If someone calls you cheap, just respond that they should mind their own economy and that GW has overpriced products.

Lord Dan
10-10-2013, 02:43
As others have mentioned, little dioramas of Witch Elves killing (cheaper) models. It's become kind of a theme throughout my Vampire army:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb113/SirLordDan/DSC08608640x598_zpsd1170501.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/SirLordDan/media/DSC08608640x598_zpsd1170501.jpg.html)
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb113/SirLordDan/DSC08605640x471_zps72fc9d46.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/SirLordDan/media/DSC08605640x471_zps72fc9d46.jpg.html)

Lord Inquisitor
10-10-2013, 04:10
Well for starters the raging heroes witch elves are cheaper and I think look better.

Unit fillers are fine and while it won't save you much they can look great.

Some advice:

Make the front rank individual models as normal and the back rank too. Also don't make more than 50% of the unit filler or you'll have real trouble with removing casualties and too much filler makes the unit look sparse.

papabearshane
10-10-2013, 04:49
Make a sacrificial alter and some blood pools to take up space. Maybe some body parts or hassle free minies to help out.

Harwammer
10-10-2013, 12:15
Front rank can be slaughtering mooks, back rank can be retainers (carrying bath robes? :P) middle ranks can be the actual witch elves. If you're doing a bit unit, the filler can be a big Victorian bath tub mounted on a pram style carriage. Have a couple of witch elves in there bathing in blood (replacing weapons with loufers, soap, sponges, etc). Have more retainers pushing the tub along. For bonus points add two speech bubbles, one to each elf.

"Where's the soap?"

"It certainly does!"

The 'every other base is empty' technique might actually work well for witch elves... perhaps use the empty bases to have bats, crows and other murder related creatures flying/hanging around?

Horus38
10-10-2013, 12:28
Front rank can be slaughtering mooks, back rank can be retainers (carrying bath robes? :P) middle ranks can be the actual witch elves. If you're doing a bit unit, the filler can be a big Victorian bath tub mounted on a pram style carriage. Have a couple of witch elves in there bathing in blood (replacing weapons with loufers, soap, sponges, etc). Have more retainers pushing the tub along. For bonus points add two speech bubbles, one to each elf.

"Where's the soap?"

"It certainly does!"

The 'every other base is empty' technique might actually work well for witch elves... perhaps use the empty bases to have bats, crows and other murder related creatures flying/hanging around?

Although creatively impressive, a unit like this would confuse the hell out of me if I was playing against it...

Kuroi
10-10-2013, 19:07
Personally I think nobody should buy the Witch Elf unit at all until GW stop taking the ****, but boycotts don't seem to actually happen so I'd be reasonably happy with any attempt to field a WE unit without getting completely screwed. One WE standing on a 200mm x 100mm base? Fine.



I don't see what the big huff is about. I bought 40 which I think I am going to use as sisters of slaughter and I am contemplating buying another 30 for regular witches...... Perhaps save up some money and get the stuff you want when it is released?^^

Harwammer
10-10-2013, 19:12
One more idea; model/paint up one witch elf in a crimson attire, wielding those ninja-turtle daggers, alone on a huge base... then fill the base out with dead baddies (or should that be goodies!?) as a tribute to Marvel hero Elektra... "Yea this witch elf is Elektra, she can fight as well as 9 witch elfs so I mounted her on a 60x60 base. Look at all these dudes she killed!".

This gives me an idea... converting Witch elves in to dark elf assassins!

Lord Dan
10-10-2013, 23:01
I don't see what the big huff is about. I bought 40 which I think I am going to use as sisters of slaughter and I am contemplating buying another 30 for regular witches...... Perhaps save up some money and get the stuff you want when it is released?^^

Once you've bought your 30 Witches you'll have spent $420 on two units. That's twice what I spent for my entire Vampire Count army. Telling people to suck it up and save their money is insensitive and unhelpful, both because most people don't see the same value that you obviously do with your $400 purchase, and because some people simply can't afford that pricetag no matter how long they save.

IcedCrow
10-10-2013, 23:20
Most people can't justify dropping nearly $500 on a couple of plastic units. So yeah. Unit fillers for the win. Dark Elf Wytches if you can convert. Other companies' models can also work out.

Lord Greyskull
11-10-2013, 21:13
There are some for $50 on ebay.

Sin Eater
11-10-2013, 21:33
Well for starters the raging heroes witch elves are cheaper and I think look better.

Unit fillers are fine and while it won't save you much they can look great.

Some advice:

Make the front rank individual models as normal and the back rank too. Also don't make more than 50% of the unit filler or you'll have real trouble with removing casualties and too much filler makes the unit look sparse.



This is also a little deceptive as A they're metal and B they're not that much cheaper, I think the new Witches are amazing but I agree that the price is ker-azy

Nymie_the_Pooh
11-10-2013, 22:04
I think if this were a skirmish game then we wouldn't be bothered overly much. In the USA we are looking at $6 a model if we don't count all of the extra bits. Even in plastic that is not that high for high quality plastics. Up until today I've been looking at it from the view of my recent purchase of Savage Orcs and Dark Wyches are $3 a model. I was looking to expand on my Privateer Press collection earlier and was looking at $5 a model for a box of plastic small based infantry models. Their plastics are not to the same quality of the Games Workshop models in my opinion as they require more cleanup and have softer details that can completely disappear in places so need to be either painted on or carved into the plastic if you don't want to dig out the putty. They also don't have any extra bits. Nobody bats an eye however because one box is enough in that system where Warhammer is probably looking at getting at least three boxes to field a unit or five or more for two units. Malifaux is cheaper per model on their plastics and of a decent quality, but there is usually just the one pose with no extra bits to speak of. Mantic is cheaper across the board, but you get what you pay for.

I guess what I am trying to say is that yes, Witch Elves are expensive. They are just slightly above par price wise with other manufacturers of a similar quality on a per model basis if not taking extras into consideration. I think it would have been nice if they had split it into two sets with all the basic stuff on a couple of sprues then a Witch specific sprue in one box with a Sisters of Slaughter specific sprue in the other, but then we would have a thread about how they were being cheap by only offering the one set of bodies between two different products.

HurrDurr
11-10-2013, 22:44
Without trying to sound rude I want to add that these questions that deal almost entirely with social interaction and have little to no affect on the game itself should be easy enough to answer for yourself. Have you ever come across someone who you thought would spit and walk away of you had unit fillers? Sure some here might say they would but anybody who doesn't live under a rock knows those people are the minority. (look at BTP, they just put up a 5ish video battle report against an army made out of food)

To answer to the OP, unit fillers are fine, GW models are expensive. Don't go overboard on them, you'll know it when you see it. Personally i think 1-2 ranks in front of 20mm and then 40mm after that is fine, when you have to take fractions of a 40mm base then place down 3 empty 20mm bases in the back (you only lose 1 model for 4 wpunds so those fractions dont really detract much from the look compared to a ranked up army with 20 wounds counters in the back ranks)

Lastavenger
12-10-2013, 08:27
You can make front ranks out of witches and back ones from The Lord of the Rings Casualties. They aren't cheap and proper scale but they look decent.
179847
Other way is to use shields, weapons and helmets from other armies. Painting them to show that previous user died and put one or two on base.

Lord Dan
12-10-2013, 16:56
Why is there a dead Ringwraith in there? Like he just crawled off to die under a tree after being stabbed. Very Ringwraithian, GW.

The bearded one
12-10-2013, 16:58
I always thought of that one as some kind of Haradrim or hashasin.

Lord Dan
12-10-2013, 17:19
I always thought of that one as some kind of Haradrim or hashasin.

That's oddly exotic (and, apparently, a blatant opportunity to sculpt nothing but a cloak), however it makes far more sense than a bleeding-out Ringwraith.

Commodus Leitdorf
12-10-2013, 17:44
I'm all for stretching what you got. Slap a few on a regiment base, but a fallen column between models. Got a few bits or spare models you don't need? Have them lying dead between two Witches! It's a hobby, be as creative as you want. So long as the unit is the correct measurement for the number of models it represents go nuts.

Alternatively....Ebay man, Ebay!

dominic_star
13-10-2013, 10:48
They are on sale for 24.50 gbp on wargame store this weekend.

Kuroi
13-10-2013, 13:11
Once you've bought your 30 Witches you'll have spent $420 on two units. That's twice what I spent for my entire Vampire Count army. Telling people to suck it up and save their money is insensitive and unhelpful, both because most people don't see the same value that you obviously do with your $400 purchase, and because some people simply can't afford that pricetag no matter how long they save.


If i go to a game some day someday and some guys is using 40 empire swordsmen to proxy/fill in for witch elves I am going to hang myself :/


$420 is like 4 days work.

Nymie_the_Pooh
13-10-2013, 16:40
I think most people are discussing such filler as casualties, and nowhere near the numbers you mentioned. For some people in the US $420 is two weeks of work. Even when it is not, it's hard for many people to justify dropping that kind of money when there are kids, mortgages/rent, food, insurance, and a myriad of other things that push $420 worth of models into the never going to happen range unless spent over a number of months.

IcedCrow
13-10-2013, 17:41
If you restrict your spending to $100-$150 a month you could get a pretty solid army in less than a year. Problem is people want it RIGHT NOW THIS SECOND.

My dark elf collection will be done over a period of months for our next summer campaign.

Blingley
13-10-2013, 17:47
If you restrict your spending to $100-$150 a month you could get a pretty solid army in less than a year.

$150 a month is pretty steep for a hobby for vast majority of people. That's anywhere near three times gym membership, and multiple times what you spend on food if you're living alone. If I did that, Warhammer would be by far the most expensive hobby I have, and amongst the other ones numbers music production. I'm expecting the pain limit for most people to be around $50/month.

Cuchulain84
13-10-2013, 17:51
If the GW community wasn't so 'ooh shiney!' obsessed then it would be a good time to make a stand and say we're not prepared to pay 3.50 for a plastic miniature. Alas, people will still buy enough of them to 'justify' GW's pricing.

IcedCrow
13-10-2013, 18:35
$100-$150 a month is about on average the people i know spend on hobbies.

That includes the 19-21 year olds i know. A lot of guys buy 2-3 new xbox games a month.

Its not unrealistic at all

As a musician i know plenty of young guys that pay that on instrument payments.

A stage guitar itself runs anywhere from 500 on up to 2000.

Drums are even worse. Yet people do it without batting an eye. And most arent making money from it either

Captain Collius
14-10-2013, 16:14
$100-$150 a month is about on average the people i know spend on hobbies.

That includes the 19-21 year olds i know. A lot of guys buy 2-3 new xbox games a month.

Its not unrealistic at all

As a musician i know plenty of young guys that pay that on instrument payments.

A stage guitar itself runs anywhere from 500 on up to 2000.

Drums are even worse. Yet people do it without batting an eye. And most arent making money from it either

Car Payments Rent Food, Beer all these come out of my paycheck and i still have enough to buy a box a week. It is all in what you are willing to budget for the hobby. I work extra side jobs to earn more money. Its simply a case of do you want it. Now when you buy a new computer game/console game every week and have 3-4 systems on the go you are probably streching your budget to thin.

And also you have to decide when enough is enough.

loveless
14-10-2013, 16:35
$100-$150 a month is about on average the people i know spend on hobbies.


Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at, and I'm a 20-something (though the bf likes to round my age up, because he's an ass >_>).

If I'd actually paint and complete the purchase before moving onto the next bit of plastic nonsense, I'd probably be a lot more content.

I actually am going to be getting into Dark Elves with that mentality - I bought a couple of boxes (not Witch Elves, Warriors) and a couple of characters to get started. I won't be buying more until they're all painted and based. Since I'm in the middle of a move, I'm guessing that means I'll probably be making the next purchase in December or January - and probably not buying any other miniature hobby stuff outside of glue/paint/basing material until then.

So...maybe $50-75/month is more "actual" considering I don't intend to buy every month, but I think if you get yourself into a slow escalation league or just a group willing to scale up army size slowly, then you shouldn't have too much of an issue...

Lord Dan
15-10-2013, 00:17
Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at, and I'm a 20-something (though the bf likes to round my age up, because he's an ass >_>).
I always thought you were a guy.

...not that you couldn't be a guy with a boyfriend...of course you could, I'm just saying as far as default assumptions go...

...I made this weird, didn't I?


I actually am going to be getting into Dark Elves with that mentality - I bought a couple of boxes (not Witch Elves, Warriors) and a couple of characters to get started. I won't be buying more until they're all painted and based. Since I'm in the middle of a move, I'm guessing that means I'll probably be making the next purchase in December or January - and probably not buying any other miniature hobby stuff outside of glue/paint/basing material until then
I dunno, I just can't get over the value no matter how I try to space it out. I could buy the new Dark Elves if I spaced out my spending as you plan to, however all I can think about is how much more I would be getting were I to spend that same amount of money on another company's models. Especially when, after the army is assembled, I can look back at what was spent in total; $420 for a couple units of Witch Elves, or $420 for several tournament-sized Warmachine factions isn't much of a toss up for me.

AngryAngel
15-10-2013, 00:33
60 for 10 elves ? Is GW trying to make the blood knights look cheap ? Makes me more and more happy most of my armies are for the most part in stages I can call them finished. As some of these costs are getting just un real. Which concerns me for the lasting longevity for a game I love.

Sotek
15-10-2013, 01:07
Yeah I'm poor so I'm quitting buying GW stuff.
I have 2 drop pods to get then I'm out. Malifaux all the way from now. Your $60 elf box would get you a great crew for a better game if you spent it on wyrd stuff instead of GW stuff. $60 for 10 wouldn't be so bad if you didn't need more of them to make a viable unit.

Rogue
15-10-2013, 02:03
There is nothing polite about Witch Elves. Why would there be a polite way to stretch their capability? By all means do what you feel is necessary.

IcedCrow
15-10-2013, 02:43
If skirmish games or playing in tournaments so needing a cheap tournament force is your goal in miniature gaming, then yes by all means find an outlet that caters to that.

Blingley
15-10-2013, 07:15
$100-$150 a month is about on average the people i know spend on hobbies.

That includes the 19-21 year olds i know. A lot of guys buy 2-3 new xbox games a month.

Its not unrealistic at all.

I'm assuming you live in somewhere where either rent and food are incredibly cheap, or taxes are nonexistent.


As a musician i know plenty of young guys that pay that on instrument payments.

A stage guitar itself runs anywhere from 500 on up to 2000.

Drums are even worse. Yet people do it without batting an eye. And most arent making money from it either

Most instruments go ~200 for starter gear, ~500 for advanced, ~2000 for quality gear, and ~6000 for the top-end. Organs and Pianos cheat this for obvious reasons. Even drumkits follow pretty precisely.

Blowing 500 on a stage guitar that lasts you a year without any issues, and quite likely will last more, after which it will still have resale value, is considerably less spending than 150/month. In fact, so is the 2000 one assuming it lasts you more than a year. And at that point you're talking about stuff that lasts you a long time. And for whatever it's worth, for the amount of DIYing you have to do with GW miniatures, you could just as well build your guitar yourself for considerably less. Drums are worse, yes, but not by too much. Mapex Horizon HZB is definitely quality for your budget. Tama Starclassic is ~2000 for a professional quality setup. Electronic Kits and quality synthetics are going to be more, though. Main thing that costs for drums is how modular they are and how easy it is to want to replace just the snare/toms/hats/kick/whatever.

Even when looking for all the kits combined, and assuming no resale value whatsoever: ~8700 for them all. Round to 9000 for shipping/strings/plectras/whateverhaveyou. Divide that by 150 and you get 60 months. Now, I might be wrong here but you don't need top-end professional/studio gear when you're five years into your music hobby. But with 150/month budget you would get it at that point.

Besides, these are not starter-quality gear. A beginner guitar costs ~200 as already stated, and probably lasts you anywhere from six to eighteen months of practice before you even know what you're missing out. Same with Clarinets, etc. The point is, you pay the fee and you are in business. If you spend 200 on Warhammer, you're not playing anytime soon. Hell, the rulebook/armybook are alone taking 100 of that. People who spend 2000 to start a hobby are usually middle-aged men in middle of their middle-life crisis. Most people start with less and see where that gets them, then spend more to upgrade once they know what they enjoy. This is probably topic for another thread entirely, but still a point I wanted to make.

IcedCrow
15-10-2013, 12:26
I live in the middle of the USA. Its not west-coast USA but the prices here for rent, food, etc... are about the same here as most of the other places I know.

I've been a musician for 25 years. I've known a lot of musicians. Most of them are 19-25 years old (as for some reason after that people start dropping off) and I have never played with a guitar player that didn't have at least 2000 sunk into his gear by the time we were playing out. I've never played on a stage with someone that was touting around starter gear. Typically its a 1200 top end guitar and a pair of 500-600 mid grade guitars, not counting the amps which go for a variety of prices (from 500 on up to 2000 for a rig).

The cheapest ones I knew were the vocalists that had to have a mic. I own a tama starclassic. I paid for it with a tax return and saving up a few months as it is a double bass setup 7 piece. I was 24 at the time I bought it and worked as a warehouse manager, so I wasn't swimming in dough.

We can argue all day about costs and values but in the end the vast majority of people that have walked in and out of my life since the late 90s blow about 100-150 on whatever their hobby is a month on average. There are a few people that play with plastic dinosaurs and what not because they don't have a lot of money and I know a few that can drop 500-800 a month on their hobbies because they make a lot.

The point of this all being that 100-150 is ... again... the average I know people to spend on their luxury items. If that defies your experience then so be it.

loveless
15-10-2013, 14:31
I always thought you were a guy.

...not that you couldn't be a guy with a boyfriend...of course you could, I'm just saying as far as default assumptions go...

...I made this weird, didn't I?

I'm a guy - and WarSeer is always weird :p


I dunno, I just can't get over the value no matter how I try to space it out. I could buy the new Dark Elves if I spaced out my spending as you plan to, however all I can think about is how much more I would be getting were I to spend that same amount of money on another company's models. Especially when, after the army is assembled, I can look back at what was spent in total; $420 for a couple units of Witch Elves, or $420 for several tournament-sized Warmachine factions isn't much of a toss up for me.

See...I look at it this way. I've got a bunch of WarmaHordes factions that I'm mostly happy with the build of. I could expand them pretty easily - and I do - but it's usually a matter of me adding in a new solo or caster/lock instead of a new unit. I've got a few Malifaux projects in the works, too, but you need even fewer models there. Effectively, I get to a point where I'm going to be building some force for some game from scratch (or near-scratch) - if I started running Kallus as my Legion warlock, my build would be very different from my Lylyth or Vayl builds, and there would be little overlap outside of some of the lesser beasts, most likely. That's not a bad thing - just more of me picking what I like and making a list out of it.

I'm doing roughly the same thing with Dark Elves. Rather than pick up a bunch of Nyss, I'll pick up a bunch of Druchii. Am I going to end up building a tournament-ready army of Dark Elves? I have no idea. I figure I'll start at 500 points or so and move forward slowly until I get bored with it.

I suppose the other thing is that...I already have armies to play Warmachine, Hordes, Kings of War, and Malifaux with. I don't really have anything for WHFB. I'm not saying I need to, by any means, but I guess I also like having game options to prevent ennui.

But who knows - survey me in December and I might have decided that the initial Dreadspear purchase was all I wanted and they're simply doing duty as elven NPCs in a D&D campaign *shrugs*

Lord Dan
15-10-2013, 17:26
I'm a guy - and WarSeer is always weird :p
Ever the voice of reason. ;)


See...I look at it this way. I've got a bunch of WarmaHordes factions that I'm mostly happy with the build of. I could expand them pretty easily - and I do - but it's usually a matter of me adding in a new solo or caster/lock instead of a new unit. I've got a few Malifaux projects in the works, too, but you need even fewer models there. Effectively, I get to a point where I'm going to be building some force for some game from scratch (or near-scratch) - if I started running Kallus as my Legion warlock, my build would be very different from my Lylyth or Vayl builds, and there would be little overlap outside of some of the lesser beasts, most likely. That's not a bad thing - just more of me picking what I like and making a list out of it.

I'm doing roughly the same thing with Dark Elves. Rather than pick up a bunch of Nyss, I'll pick up a bunch of Druchii. Am I going to end up building a tournament-ready army of Dark Elves? I have no idea. I figure I'll start at 500 points or so and move forward slowly until I get bored with it.

I suppose the other thing is that...I already have armies to play Warmachine, Hordes, Kings of War, and Malifaux with. I don't really have anything for WHFB. I'm not saying I need to, by any means, but I guess I also like having game options to prevent ennui.

But who knows - survey me in December and I might have decided that the initial Dreadspear purchase was all I wanted and they're simply doing duty as elven NPCs in a D&D campaign *shrugs*

That's a fair point. I look at that $420 from the position of someone who doesn't have completed Warmachine factions (or enough Skaven models), and so the idea of spending the money on something of vastly lower in-game value is tough to imagine. That said, if I already had all the models I needed (is that even possible?) I can easily see spending extra on the models I wanted.

Blingley
15-10-2013, 19:35
I live in the middle of the USA. Its not west-coast USA but the prices here for rent, food, etc... are about the same here as most of the other places I know.

Quite possibly a regional thing. I live in Finland. For reference, the average living expenses for a student are 700-900 / month.


I've been a musician for 25 years. I've known a lot of musicians. Most of them are 19-25 years old (as for some reason after that people start dropping off) and I have never played with a guitar player that didn't have at least 2000 sunk into his gear by the time we were playing out. I've never played on a stage with someone that was touting around starter gear. Typically its a 1200 top end guitar and a pair of 500-600 mid grade guitars, not counting the amps which go for a variety of prices (from 500 on up to 2000 for a rig).

2k isn't too much for someone who has spent a few years on the hobby: With the rate of $150, that'd be just over a year. Have you ever played on stage with anyone who has only played their instrument of choice for one year only?

Also, technically, as far as Acoustic Guitars go, the top-end is probably a Goodall for ~6000.


We can argue all day about costs and values but in the end the vast majority of people that have walked in and out of my life since the late 90s blow about 100-150 on whatever their hobby is a month on average. There are a few people that play with plastic dinosaurs and what not because they don't have a lot of money and I know a few that can drop 500-800 a month on their hobbies because they make a lot.

The point of this all being that 100-150 is ... again... the average I know people to spend on their luxury items. If that defies your experience then so be it.

Oh, it certainly defies my experience, but I'm more interested on why it does so. At this point I'm more or less willing to put it down to a regional thing. The people I know that could drop sums over 500/month to their hobbies certainly don't do so in Finland. Perhaps we're all just stingy.

IcedCrow
15-10-2013, 20:15
Could easily be a regional thing yes.