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zhangyi
08-10-2013, 07:43
hi guys, here's my question, can a unit with ws0 attack others?
i checked the rulebook and it only said that units with ws0 cant defend themselves, and will be auto hit.
but can they attack others? i checked the hit table, there's only ws1 to ws10, no ws0 showed on it.
could someone tell me the answer? tks a lot!

Artinam
08-10-2013, 09:54
Its a bit of a gap in the rules indeed as you said its not covered by the table, I think they still get to attack only hitting on 6s (those always hit regardless of modifiers).

theunwantedbeing
08-10-2013, 10:11
There are two solutions.

1. Let them hit on a 6.
Seems reasonable, but bs0 things don't get to "hit on a 6", in0 things don't get to "pass on a 1" when taking inititative tests...so it goes against that standard reasoning.

2. Assume the clause of "to a minimum of 1" on all stat reducing effects except where the rule states that it can reduce the stat to 0.
This just bypasses the issue of being reduces to ws0 except in a tiny handful of cases where the unit is unable to attack at all.

Talk to your opponent before the battle and try to agree on a solution.
Failing that, a dice off solves the issue.

Spiney Norman
08-10-2013, 10:42
There are two solutions.

1. Let them hit on a 6.
Seems reasonable, but bs0 things don't get to "hit on a 6", in0 things don't get to "pass on a 1" when taking inititative tests...so it goes against that standard reasoning.

2. Assume the clause of "to a minimum of 1" on all stat reducing effects except where the rule states that it can reduce the stat to 0.
This just bypasses the issue of being reduces to ws0 except in a tiny handful of cases where the unit is unable to attack at all.

Talk to your opponent before the battle and try to agree on a solution.
Failing that, a dice off solves the issue.

Go with 2, solution 1 is not acceptable because it adds to the rules in a way which is totally unsupported, and as you point out has no precedent anywhere else in the game.

The to hit chart does not contain WS0, therefore there are two potential options, either a WS0 model cannot hit at all, or models cannot have their WS reduced to less than 1 (hence it is not included on the chart). It seems reasonable to say that since WS0 is not included on the to hit chart it cannot occur. On the other hand if you believe that the best defence is a good offence then the text about WS0 models not being able to defend themselves might also suggest to you that they cannot attack (which seems to be the most logical option if indeed a model's WS can be reduced to 0).

How are you reducing a models WS to 0 anyway?

dementian
08-10-2013, 12:59
Do the models at WS0 have an attack profile?

Artinam
08-10-2013, 13:04
Doesn't the rulebook refer to WS0 on page 4 and that units with it are hit automatically? Thus it does 'legally' exist. It chooses to neglect what happens offensively
There is simply a gap in the rules and because the table gives no indication what you need to hit the only rule left is that when rolling to hit a natural 6 regardless of modifiers always hits (page 50).

Personally I don't care about the answer if my opponent wishes to do it another way I let him or her.

AverageBoss
08-10-2013, 15:46
I could have sworn I read that models with WS0 cannot make melee attack (in the same way BS0 cannot make ranges attacks), and are hit automatically in hand to hand.

That being said, the only thing in the entire game that I can think of that can reduce WS to 0 are Yehtis. And who takes those?

Although it was fun that one time I saw a 8 man unit of them, augmented with flaming sword prior to the auto wound errata, charge a zombie blob.

zhangyi
09-10-2013, 05:03
Go with 2, solution 1 is not acceptable because it adds to the rules in a way which is totally unsupported, and as you point out has no precedent anywhere else in the game.

The to hit chart does not contain WS0, therefore there are two potential options, either a WS0 model cannot hit at all, or models cannot have their WS reduced to less than 1 (hence it is not included on the chart). It seems reasonable to say that since WS0 is not included on the to hit chart it cannot occur. On the other hand if you believe that the best defence is a good offence then the text about WS0 models not being able to defend themselves might also suggest to you that they cannot attack (which seems to be the most logical option if indeed a model's WS can be reduced to 0).

How are you reducing a models WS to 0 anyway?

with the new DE magic word of pain u can reduce an enemy unit to ws0(it dosent say to a min of 1)

Blkc57
09-10-2013, 05:55
with the new DE magic word of pain u can reduce an enemy unit to ws0(it dosent say to a min of 1)

Mother of all creatures great and small, he's right! I can't believe we have to go back to this after they fixed it with the Mark of Nurgle. Matt Ward I hate you so much right now.

dhallnet
11-10-2013, 08:51
The rulebook says that a creature with a value of 0 in a characteristic "mean they have no ability whatsoever in that skill". So I guess they are unable to attack if their WS is reduced to 0. I think the part about the defending options (the only one being "is hit automatically") for a WS 0 creature is there because the "to hit" table doesn't cover the case of an attacker with WS X versus a defender of WS 0.