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View Full Version : Asf + Great weapon = still get re-rolls?



Chucky64
10-10-2013, 16:11
I know great weapons have asl and so cancels out the asf for going 1st and just goes in I order, but as the models still has asf, do they still get re-rolls to wound if their I is equal or higher than opponent? Or does the great weapon slow them down enough to stop this but still go at I order?

have I just answered my own question?

dementian
10-10-2013, 16:13
They do not get rerolls. As ASF is cancelled out by the ASL. And always strikes first is a special rule, so you cancel out every effect from the special rule, not just some.

theunwantedbeing
10-10-2013, 16:17
Why would you still benefit from a rule that doesn't apply?

Knifeparty
10-10-2013, 16:18
ASF and ASL on the same unit cancel each other out and you strike at initiative order, like you would normally. You do not get re-rolls to hit. You typed re-rolls to wound in your post, I don't know if that was a mistake, but just so you know it's re-rolls to hit, not wound.

Rake
14-10-2013, 12:15
So, I'm going to hijack this. Does it cancel the EFFECTS of ASL and ASF or does it cancel the RULES? Cause if it cancels the effects thats the end of that. But if it cancels the rules then if I get ASF again (magic lets say) I could get the reroll to hit as i am no longer ASL.

furrie
14-10-2013, 12:55
It cancel the effects so, asf + asf + asl = normal I order and no re-rolls

Yowzo
14-10-2013, 12:58
But if it cancels the rules then if I get ASF again (magic lets say) I could get the reroll to hit as i am no longer ASL.

A unit cannot be affected by multiples of a special rule.

theunwantedbeing
14-10-2013, 13:19
A unit cannot be affected by multiples of a special rule.

Unless the special rules explicitly says it can, like the Extra Attack special rule.

Dark Side Duke
14-10-2013, 14:55
Food for thought,
Either ASF and ASL completely cancel each other out. Mean you have have neither of the rules and could get ASF again OR ASL just knocks out the ability to go first and still allows the rerolls from ASF. The rule book words it goofy, as usual.

Nymie_the_Pooh
15-10-2013, 00:21
Cancel each other out is not quite the same as removing each other. They still have both the ASF and ASL special rules. The effects cancel each other out without removing the rules themselves. They don't lose either rule.

dementian
15-10-2013, 02:33
Food for thought,
Either ASF and ASL completely cancel each other out. Mean you have have neither of the rules and could get ASF again OR ASL just knocks out the ability to go first and still allows the rerolls from ASF. The rule book words it goofy, as usual.

Why are those the only two options? I vote for the (correct) option that if a model has both ASF and ASL the effects of both are cancelled and you attack at initiative order without rerolls.

FatTrucker
15-10-2013, 06:28
This isn't even an issue. Its the weapon that prevents ASF not some other effect. No matter how many spells, buffs or anything else a player uses to grant ASF, if they use a great weapon it has ASL which cancels out ASF. Re-rolls are a special rule for ASF and if you're using a great weapon you no longer have the ASF rule in CC. If you no longer have ASF you don't get the re-rolls either.

Dark Side Duke
15-10-2013, 12:16
Why are those the only two options? I vote for the (correct) option that if a model has both ASF and ASL the effects of both are cancelled and you attack at initiative order without rerolls.

I agree with you, I just brought to light two of the many views on that rule. Its all fine detail reading and whether people choose to honor RAW over RAI

geldedgoat
15-10-2013, 16:27
Food for thought,
Either ASF and ASL completely cancel each other out. Mean you have have neither of the rules and could get ASF again OR ASL just knocks out the ability to go first and still allows the rerolls from ASF. The rule book words it goofy, as usual.

"If a model has both [Always Strikes Last] and Always Strikes First, the two cancel out and neither applies so use the model's Initiative."

Emphasis mine. The model loses neither rule, and the totality of effects from both rules are lost. That means initiative for striking order and no rerolls to hit.