View Full Version : Any easy way to convert Warhammer stats to LOTR SBG?

10-10-2013, 18:48
I've been wanting to play LOTR SBG rules more, but in the Warhammer setting/models. I know the easiest route is to simply use the existing stats/rules and try to proxy them with fitting Warhammer figures.. but I'd prefer to do a complete conversion where the Warhammer models are represented properly in SBG rules. I've heard of a stats calculator a few times, but can't seem to find any working links.

Also not sure how the points would work out just converting a model over from Warhammer to SBG. Our group is relaxed and not really competitive so as long as the points are close enough to be a good gauge of what a model is worth, we're good.

Thanks in advance for any help/input.

If it helps any.. here are the races in the group:
Vampire Counts, Orcs, Ogres, Dwarfs, Dark Elves, Chaos, Lizardmen and Empire.

10-10-2013, 21:03
I've been thinking about doing the same with either Mordheim or a skirmish campaign 40K. Points balance would be the hard part. For points I would look to see what in LotR SBG has a similar stat line and start there. If you don't want to do that, then use the point values in Warhammer Fantasy and adjust as needed. Things like weapon and shield upgrades are similarly costed in both games. You might want to tack another ten or more points to unit champions if going this route.

Stat wise, M4 would become M6 with others sliding to fit and make sense from there. M8 mounts would become M10. WS would transfer straight over to the first Fight value. The second Fight value is 7 - BS. Strength copies straight over. Toughness becomes Defense. Attacks and Wounds transfer straight. If you have an Initiative value that is not the same as the WS then it might be beneficial to average the two in order to figure out the first Fight value instead. Otherwise, I would probably ignore Initiative except if it was particularly high in which case I would do the average as stated or add a special rule if I think their Initiative might be more focused on another part of the game such as movement instead of on combat. For instance, Skaven I might ignore Initiative, but give them the Moria Goblin climbing ability and take that away from Goblins not on spiders as the ability fits the Skaven fluff and helps compensate for dropping Initiative. Ld7 copies over to C3. Other values of Leadership don't copy over quite so cleanly. For instance, Ld10 might be C6 or C8, but Ld5 or lower is probably C2. I would almost consider keeping Leadership and using it in place of Courage as there is more variety in options with Leadership over Courage. Unit leaders would probably start around Might:2 Will:1 Fate:1. If copying over heroes, lords, or exceptional unit champions you'll likely want to go up from there. You can adjust up or down as well. If a character has very little in the way of self-incentive you might want to give them Will:0 for example.

Most of the basic weapons are already there. The new Hobbit game even has extra rules for performing moves like feints with swords or daggers and stuns with club weapons if you want to use those rules. For melee I would add the weapon specific rules to the most similar base weapon and see how that works out. You would need to work out black powder and army specific weapons. For most ranged weapons I advise lowering the Strength of the weapon by one unless you plan to stick to the LotR SBG rule of only 25% models armed with ranged weapons. Long range weapons also tend to see a reduction while short range weapons remain about the same range. The strength drop works fairly well for bow style weapons as normal bows are S2 in LotR SBG. Crossbows are S4 with no moving so the subtraction isn't always the case, but should work for most cases. For black powder I would be tempted to make it S4 and ignore one point of armour, but that is an extra step over making black powder weapons S5 so either might work with the inability to move and maybe the ability to fire only every other turn as they reload.

Another consideration is bases. If you want to stick with square bases then you need to decide as a group if bases touching is enough or if you want to have models line up after engaging. It's not a big deal, but is probably something better to work out before it comes up than try to figure out how you want to handle it after it comes up.

10-10-2013, 21:20
With a bit of common sense every stat bar Initiative can quite simply be slotted into an LotR statline. With Ld, for example, Ld7 becomes C3 and every pip of Ld higher or lower than 7 is a pip more or less of C. Points are dead easy to work out due to the obvious pricing system used in LotR - every stat up or down on a basic, 1-wound warrior is worth 1pt, with multi-wound stuff it's 5pts per pip.

10-10-2013, 22:37
Thanks for the info guys. My problem is, while I'm very familiar with the Warhammer systems and stats (both Fantasy and 40k), don't know too much about SBG. I was initially thinking of just getting the Hobbit small book until I found out that its missing point values for all the stats. Hunting down the older books seem more of a chore to gather all the stats for comparison sake. Are there a lot of special rules in the game? More or less than Warhammer?

10-10-2013, 22:53
If you want stat lines with costs, I'd suggest visiting some of the SGB variation websites out there. You can find more than a few historical crossovers (sorry, no links at the moment). Problem is that you are going to need to do an awful lot of fiddling to get armies of species represented rather than a few models, and still keep the balance to feel like its WFB.

I'd suggest this is one for the long haul. Simple units stats conversion, special rules and equipment adjustment, followed buy expansion of the units to include more specialist units. I don't think its going to be as easy as some might think mate. Good luck!

Spiney Norman
10-10-2013, 23:17
WS becomes Fight (first number) strength and wounds carry straight over. Attacks carry over but should be capped at 3 except in very special cases like large monsters and so forth. The shooting part of the fight skill should be equal to the model's unmodified to hit score, so a BS of 4 would translate as a 3+ shooting value, a BS of 3 would be 4+ etc. you may want to adopt some of the racial characteristics of lotr, such as orcs hitting on 5+ from shooting etc.

Toughness doesn't quite carry over to lotr defense because in lotr armour increases your defense instead of providing a save.
So converting toughness to defense would look something like
Toughness, +1 for light armour, +2 for heavy/full plate/chaos armour, +1 for shield

Mounts are never taken into consideration when calculating toughness in lotr, instead there is a chance to hit the mount instead of the rider when shot at. For Barded mounts add+1 to the mount's defence score.

You might have to fiddle around a little with this, most lotr warriors are worked out at a baseline defence of 3 plus their armour, whereas warhammer has a lot of T4, you might need to adjust the defence values of your lotr profiles down a little to make them actually playable, D7 should be extremely rare on a warrior and D8 is generally only reserved for Dwarven heroes and large monsters.

The most difficult conversion will be leadership to courage, I would resolve it as follows
Any model that is Ld 7 becomes Courage 3, for every point above LD7 add one point of courage, if below LD7 give a courage value of 2. Models that for whatever reason are immune to psychology and/or unbreakable could be given a courage value of 8, which means they cannot fail a courage test.

For characters you will need to judge for yourself how to generate the Might will and fate stats.

Basic heroes like empire captains, elf nobles etc should have 2 might, 1 will and 1 fate, these could scale up to 3 might, 2-3 will and 2-3 fate in the case of lords, and potentially creep up slightly higher in the case of particularly epic special characters, though fate and will (on non wizard chars) should probably not ever go above 3.

Wizards should probably follow the Istari pattern from lotr, of beginning with a pool of will and generating one free point a turn via a wizards staff that cannot be stored. I would set the starting pool at wizard level +2, but just be aware that the points cost of lord level wizards is going to be drastically different to warhammer.

It might actually be simpler if you use the lotr wizard profiles to present wizards, use Radagast for life/beast wizards, Galadriel for light, Saruman (good version) for death/metal/fire and Gandalf the grey for shadow/heavens.

If you choose to make your own wizard profile then for spells I think you will need to select a few appropriate ones from the spell lists in the lotr rule book because warhammer magic is so different to magic on lotr the two just aren't going to carry over.