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Kurgan Ironbeard
10-10-2013, 19:28
So, I purchased a lot of stuff off a friend recently including a great deal of Dark Elves and today I got the army book, so it's completely new to me, I've only ever played Empire before and only faced Dark Elves once since returning to playing this year, so I was hoping I could get some help. I started a list but it quickly jumped over 2k, I've removed a unit of 20 strong black guard, 5 dark riders, 10 harpies and 5 shades. I've yet to add magic items or lords/heroes yet though since all I really know about them is that their magic is awesome and I'd really like to add assassins to but then I need a decent lord, so I'm not sure what to go with and what to equip everything with, so if you could help I'm open to suggests and pointers :)

Core

40 Dark Elf Spearmen - Full Command - 390

15 Dark Elf Crossbowmen - 180

15 Dark Elf Crossbowmen - 180

Special

10 Cold One Knights - Full Command - 330

10 Shades - Great weapons - 180

War Hydra - Fiery Breath - 180

Repeater Bolt Thrower - 70
Repeater Bolt Thrower - 70
Repeater Bolt Thrower - 70

Total - 1670

Chain
10-10-2013, 19:47
Perhaps make it a 20 and a 10 man crossbowmen units and add banner of eternal flame to the 20?(Perhaps with Shields if you can't hold the enemy at bay)
Hope you'll get something nice out of the Large COK unit, It just look risky against opponents relying on warmachines.

You seem to favor a Sorceres Lord, so I'd say either take her on foot or riding on a dark steed in a unit(probably better for a Hero Sorceress)
Tallisman of preservation is the obvious item.


Are you aiming at a 2k army larger or smaller or any army you got units for?



As for an assassin build I've still yet to try the new book and on top of that I've only had 1 game in over a year, but this is the Assassin I'd like to try:


Assassin
Additional Hand Weapon, Manbane, Black Dragon Egg(though I admit i've always been more of a casual gamer)
Points: 162

Borgomos
10-10-2013, 20:30
I would remove the Cold One Knights, without a combat hero to deliver they are not that great. Use the left over points to get yourself a Sorceress and probably a master on flying steed or an assassin.

Kurgan Ironbeard
10-10-2013, 20:37
The usual points range we play at the store is 2k, there's a chance I'll be playing in small games though but we never normally go over 2k. Should I cut down on the amount of Cold One Knights, I only put 10 in originally because that's the max I had and I'm used to Empire Knights. I think I need to cut more out of the army to make room for the characters I think, what do you suggest?


I would remove the Cold One Knights, without a combat hero to deliver they are not that great. Use the left over points to get yourself a Sorceress and probably a master on flying steed or an assassin.

So cut out the knights all together? That's a lot of points to free up for characters, so perhaps a Surpreme Sorceress, normal sorceress and an assassin?

I was hoping for a more offensive list with more movement as opposed to my Empire, if I wanted to make it more offensive do you think I should drop the warmachines and cut down on the spearmen and add something else?

Chain
10-10-2013, 21:53
Not sure really

Unless you got a nice combat hero/lord/Malus/Malekith with the COK I don't think it's smart to go for a large unit. (I'll be honest Back in 7'th I somewhat liked playing in a 7 strong unit, but again i'm a casual gamer)
If you want to have 10 COK I'd personally rather have it as 2 units of 5 especially now that the Cold Ones make up more of a punsh.

I'd probably play 2 Bolt Throwers and replace the third with points for characters.
Shades and Executioners are the real winners of the old book
Usually it's a good idea to have a BSB in any army though Elves do have a high Ld so not as important.

Harpies are the biggest losers of the new book

Dark Riders are really nice in the new book though Larger armies = less space for Maneuvers

Kurgan Ironbeard
10-10-2013, 22:27
I tried to add a bit more punch and added a dragon and split up the cold ones, the idea is for them to go down the flanks, while the spearmen and hydra go down the centre, the shades deal with war machines etc and the dragon eats people after getting behind them and charging them in the rear.

Lord

Dread Lord - Lance - Heavy armour - shield - cloak of twilight - black dragon - 456


Hero

Sorceress - Sacrificial Dagger / Level 2 - 140


Assassin - additional hand weapon / manbane / black dragon egg - 162


Core

30 Dark Elf Spearmen - Musician / Standard - 290


Special

5 Shades - Great weapons - 85

5 Shades - Great weapons - 85


5 Cold One Kights - Dread Knight / Standard - 170


5 Cold One Kights - Dread Knight / Standard - 170


War Hydra - Fiery Breath - 180


Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70


Total - 1968

Tae
10-10-2013, 22:40
Illegal I'm afraid. Both the dagger and the scroll are arcane items, so she can't have both.

Kurgan Ironbeard
10-10-2013, 23:07
Ok altered that but I've come up with another list since that last list didn't have enough core as well. The list below could alternatively have 5 warlocks instead of two bolt throwers.

Lord
Dread Lord - Lance - Heavy armour - shield - cloak of twilight - black dragon - 456




Hero
Sorceress - Sacrificial Dagger / Level 2 - 140


Assassin - additional hand weapon / manbane / black dragon egg - 162




Core
50 Dark Elf Spearmen - Musician / Standard - 470


20 Repeater Crossbowmen - Shields / Musician / Standard / Flaming Banner - 290




Special
5 Shades - Great weapons - 85


War Hydra - Fiery Breath - 180


Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70


Total - 1993

Chain
10-10-2013, 23:18
you still got the dagger and scroll on your sorceress though

So that opens 25 points so a possible "RUBY RING OF RUIN" though you can probably spend the points better elsewhere.


Warlocks look nice and with your lvl 2 your only current magic provider should be tempting

so if you do 15 there + 25 from the item +2 = 42 points left to place

Kurgan Ironbeard
10-10-2013, 23:27
Yeah sorry, I was copying and pasting from Word, I've deleted it now, I'd accounted for the cost decrease though.

With the Warlocks and after re-caculating the entire army I came up with this.

Lord
Dread Lord - Lance - Heavy armour - shield - cloak of twilight - black dragon - 456




Hero
Sorceress - Sacrificial Dagger / Level 2 - 140


Assassin - additional hand weapon / manbane / black dragon egg - 162




Core
50 Dark Elf Spearmen - Musician / Standard - 470


20 Repeater Crossbowmen - Shields / Musician / Standard / Flaming Banner - 290




Special
5 Shades - Great weapons - 85


War Hydra - Fiery Breath - 180


Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70




Rare
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Master of Warlocks - 135


Total - 1988

Chain
10-10-2013, 23:43
so 12 points left for upgrades

So lets replace your shield on your Dreadlord with a Charmed shield(since why not use those 2 points)

So 10 points remaining maybe give him a Luckstone?

And perhaps give the Spearmen "GLEAMING PENNANT" ? since your Lord might get out of range


Should get you to the magic 2000

Kurgan Ironbeard
11-10-2013, 00:02
Is the gleaming pennant and luckstone both 5 points each? my rulebook is in the loft cause I've just redecorated and only have the army book and my memory to hand heh.

So it would be something like this?

Lord
Dread Lord - Lance - Heavy armour - charmed shield - cloak of twilight - luckstone - black dragon - 463




Hero
Sorceress - Sacrificial Dagger / Level 2 - 140


Assassin - additional hand weapon / manbane / black dragon egg - 162




Core
50 Dark Elf Spearmen - Musician / Standard / Gleaming Pennant - 475


20 Repeater Crossbowmen - Shields / Musician / Standard / Flaming Banner - 290




Special
5 Shades - Great weapons - 85


War Hydra - Fiery Breath - 180


Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70




Rare
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Master of Warlocks - 135


Total -2000

Chain
11-10-2013, 00:11
according to google yup both are at 5 points each as is the charmed shield.(My 8'th ed RB is somewhere at my cousin)

I noticed something while we've been talking, I thought the BT was equal to how it was in the last book just cheaper due to the lose of a wound.
However so far I haven't been able to find the old multishot rule in the 8'th ed book.

Which means the BT now look to have gotten -1 bs when using Multi Shots... that's a rather significant change imo, know if the HE had the same change?

Kurgan Ironbeard
11-10-2013, 00:23
I wouldn't know sorry, this is the first time I've ever used elves, it says under special rules "Repeater Bolt Thrower" doesn't mention any -1 accuracy for multiple shots like normal repeater crossbows do.

So you think this army is worth trying? I don't expect to do well in my first game since I'm not used to elves, for the most part I think I'm just going to march everything at the enemy apart from the crossbowmen and reapers. Where do you think the Assassin would be best be placed?

Chain
11-10-2013, 00:30
Well the army looks fun, not sure how competetive, but fun.
If the charmed shield protects your dragon from the first WM hit you're golden, but I'm not sure it protects the entire model when your on a monster.

Black Dragon should be fun, but I think the dark Pegasus will be the Dominating Mount in competetive play(perhaps on a master to get the extra wound)
If you got the models you should try it, If you don't ask for some trial games with it using standins? (probably not easy in a gw shop)

Kurgan Ironbeard
11-10-2013, 00:31
I have a sorceress on pegasus, the morathi model. I've never used a dragon before though so I'm looking forward to seeing what it can do. I'm thinking of putting the assassin either in the shades or maybe in the spearmen unit, what do you think?

Chain
11-10-2013, 00:45
Probably would depend on the type of army I'd expect to face, but for the most part I'd probably go with the Spearmen(The breath weapon could come in handy against high armor opposition, Which the spearmen could struggle with)

However if your opponents look to play defensivly and you get the first turn having the assassin with the shades would be marvelous I believe

Kurgan Ironbeard
11-10-2013, 08:48
What breath weapon are you talking about, the dragon? or does the assassin have one I've missed?

Rakariel
11-10-2013, 09:05
What breath weapon are you talking about, the dragon? or does the assassin have one I've missed?
The Assassin has the Black Dragon Egg which gives him S6 and T6 and a S2 ignoring armor save breath weapon.

Kurgan Ironbeard
11-10-2013, 10:34
Ah, duh my bad lol forgot about that.

Kurgan Ironbeard
11-10-2013, 14:47
I have to make a 600 points list, with up the ability to extend it to 1k, any suggestions?

Chain
11-10-2013, 16:10
Usual point limits or custom game with requirements?

Also out of curiosity how large a battlefield are you playing at?
Any Allies?

Chain
11-10-2013, 16:14
If lots of space go

5x Dark Riders
rxb, musician
105

5x Dark Riders
rxb,musician
105

5x Warlocks
125

Master
Give him Dawnstone, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Dark Steed (Or Cold One If you don't mind the reduced move)
115

So up to you if you want to gear him out more(probably place him with the Warlocks)
Great Weapon, Lance, More Magic Items

you got 50 points remaining if you go this way

Kurgan Ironbeard
11-10-2013, 18:13
I'm not sure how it's going to work, and I don't have the models for that many mounted guys. I think they are just mini games or it may be one big game with each side made up of several players. How about this? They're like smaller versions of my 2k army so may give me plenty of practice with using them.



600 Points


Sorceress - Level 2 - Sacrifical Dagger - 140


30 Spearmen - Full Command- 300


Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70


5 Shades - Great sword - 90


- 600




1000 points


Sorceress - Level 2 - Sacrifical Dagger - 140


Asassin - extra hand weapon - 92


30 Spearmen - Full Command- 300


Reaper Bolt Thrower - 70


5 Shades - Great sword - 90


Hydra - Fiery Breath - 180


5 Doomfire Warlocks - 125


997

Chain
11-10-2013, 19:16
PErsonally I think the 600 p looks fine, Decided on a Lore?

As for the 1000 p, I think the Assassin is wasted like that It's not much better than a Witch Elf... Though would probably be fun, ranged poison attack should be alright, but I don't think he throw 3 times in the new book so really you won't get much out of him.

MAybe add some more shades for his points?

Chain
11-10-2013, 19:17
PErsonally I think the 600 p looks fine, Decided on a Lore?

As for the 1000 p, I think the Assassin is wasted like that It's not much better than a Witch Elf... Though would probably be fun, ranged poison attack should be alright, but I don't think he throw 3 times in the new book so really you won't get much out of him.

MAybe add some more shades for his points?

Kurgan Ironbeard
11-10-2013, 19:30
I dunno what lore, I was going to try the dark elf lore since I've never tried it before, I assume the best one though is shadow? I added the Assassin as I wasn't sure what else to add, I could add another 5 shades though or another reaper and spend 20 points on something else.

Edit: Btw two units of 5 shades or 1 unit of 10 shades?

Kurgan Ironbeard
13-10-2013, 16:11
Had my first game today with them, it was with my 1k points list and it did no go well, I couldn't roll to save my life. It was against Empire and his cannon took out my hydra right away, my shooting was terrible, my friend told me to try take wounds off the steam tank so it may blow up but it never wounded once, from now on I'll just focus on troops. His steam tank destroyed my doomfire warlocks who I thought could hold against it but it roll trebble 6 for his impact hits and I failed only 5 wards saves but that was enough :/ I thought with their poisoned attacks and such they may tie it up for the entire game but only if I survived first impact.

My shades kept getting grape shotted by his cannon it forced a panic check but eventually he misfired and I was able to charge with 6 shades out of 10 left and killed both it and the engineer.

My magic was the real life saver of the game for me, it started off poorly as I generated little but then it went really well and I combined Word of Pain and Bladewind to do a lot of damage which would of done a lot more if he wasn't using a lore of light spell that improved his ws to 10. I nearly wiped hos massive horde of halbardiers though when he failed to cast and then dispel my spells, I also rolled several doubles and at one time a treble which added some extra damage, from a horde of 40 he was left with 8 by the end and had lost his warrior priest and wizard.

Overall it was fun although it was painful during the first two turns. I've decided to swap out the hydra and doomfire warlocks for my next game and replace them with 5 cold one riders and a master with a great weapon and a 1+ save.

Chain
13-10-2013, 22:45
Had my first game today with them, it was with my 1k points list and it did no go well, I couldn't roll to save my life. It was against Empire and his cannon took out my hydra right away, my shooting was terrible, my friend told me to try take wounds off the steam tank so it may blow up but it never wounded once, from now on I'll just focus on troops. His steam tank destroyed my doomfire warlocks who I thought could hold against it but it roll trebble 6 for his impact hits and I failed only 5 wards saves but that was enough :/ I thought with their poisoned attacks and such they may tie it up for the entire game but only if I survived first impact.

My shades kept getting grape shotted by his cannon it forced a panic check but eventually he misfired and I was able to charge with 6 shades out of 10 left and killed both it and the engineer.

My magic was the real life saver of the game for me, it started off poorly as I generated little but then it went really well and I combined Word of Pain and Bladewind to do a lot of damage which would of done a lot more if he wasn't using a lore of light spell that improved his ws to 10. I nearly wiped hos massive horde of halbardiers though when he failed to cast and then dispel my spells, I also rolled several doubles and at one time a treble which added some extra damage, from a horde of 40 he was left with 8 by the end and had lost his warrior priest and wizard.

Overall it was fun although it was painful during the first two turns. I've decided to swap out the hydra and doomfire warlocks for my next game and replace them with 5 cold one riders and a master with a great weapon and a 1+ save.

Always been your choice to make. Facing a warmachine army is tough without cheap fodder or really fast movement.
Steamtanks are a pain, high T and armor makes it difficult for just about everything aside stat tests.
Cannons are to good in 8'th for their price so no suprice.
Good you had fun