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LunarLizard
14-10-2013, 13:02
So I want to start collecting Orcs and Goblins, I have just purchased the rulebook but not spent a penny on a single model yet.

At the moment we only play 600 points and I will be playing against either Dark Elves, Lizardmen or Empire.

I would appreciate any advice on which models to buy before spending large amounts on some that will be useless or not used.


Thanks in advance.

jeffzcubfan
14-10-2013, 14:23
This really comes down to what kind of them and how competitve do you want to be. This will help determine which core you need to start with.

I'm a true mixed O&G player so my "anchor" is a unit of Black Orcs. They aren't cheap, but they are the one unit with O&G that will respond as you wish them to (no animosity/stupidity). If you are more of a fan of a goblin based army, then I recommend Night Goblins. The fanatics can be totally devastating to your opponent if you can get them released at the proper time.

Regards,

Jeff

LunarLizard
14-10-2013, 15:13
I'm not keen on the idea of just goblins, if much rather O&G's.

As for competitiveness... If I understand correctly these dudes are a but hit and miss. I'm already prepared for a large amount of losses when I go into battle with these. I'd like to be competitive but didn't know I could be...

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jeffzcubfan
14-10-2013, 16:55
O&G, imo, are for those guys that like to have a fun army and can laugh at misfortune. When you take Trolls and their stupidity, Fanatics and their random direction on movement, the attack carts, etc. into account you have to, otherwise it will frustrate you.

Like I said, I have my army with the centerpiece being a large block of Black Orcs, I have some Boyz and 2 Night Goblin regiments to flesh out the main body. I have a unit of Trolls, 1-2 attack carts, plus a Rock Lobba. In addtion, I like to use Goblin wolf riders. They might not pack the punch of Boar riders, but they are fast, and their free re-form makes them VERY annoying. Can they be beaten easily? Yes, but they can't be ignored and so you can possibly tie up a good unit with cheap troops. If your opponent does ignore them, I've been able to make them learn that mistake and pin down a unit with the riders, setting them up for a 1-2 punch with a stronger unit.

Jeff

Mozzamanx
14-10-2013, 17:06
The army is so varied, you will have a huge amount of options in terms of how you build it. However there are always going to be some units that stand out as excellent and so as a list of the armies all-stars:

Savage Orcs- Some of the best core infantry in the game. Big 'Uns with 2 Choppas and a Shaman are an unstoppable force and immovable object in one. Perhaps a bit out of your price range at 600pts but certainly something to look forward to. The models are also crazy expensive and so I'd look into modelling something cheaper to look a bit crazy and painting them up with tattoos, nobody will mind.
Night Gobins- 3pts for what is basically T4, and with the ever-lovely Fanatics. You can never really go wrong with them, look into some Heroes as well to lead them.
War Machines- Criminally cheap and no less lethal than anybody elses. An army can stock up even a full battery of 2 Lobbas, 2 Divers and some Chukkas for absolute peanuts.
Manglers- Probably the most destructive unit for it's cost that exists in the game. Again the model is silly expensive and so you are better off converting, but absolute gold here.

Rawdogg15
14-10-2013, 20:31
For both fun and competitiveness, you could do worse than the 600 point list I have saved on Quartermaster:

Savage Orc Shaman, Lv1, Lucky Shrunken Head.

15 Savage Orcs, Mus, SB.

20 Night Goblins, short bows, 3 fanatics

3 Trolls

Goblin Spear Chukka

Mangler Squig

At 600 points, you are going to be weak somewhere. In this list, it's the low level magic and the low leadership. If you wanted to counter this, you'd have to drop something like the spear chukka or the trolls to go with a higher level character (i.e. a lord choice). There's also no big fighty character but I would rely on the Squig, fanatics and the trolls to do most of the battering. I'd also suggest that this would be quite a good starting point to build a bigger army from.

LunarLizard
14-10-2013, 21:08
Thank you. I have a few ideas now where to star. I love the story of this army they are so funny and never know what's going to happen. I'm not a "serious" player, I play for fun so if I don't win I don't mind as its a game, I'd rather have a laugh and be obliterated then to win and all serious. I can't wait to buy my models WWWAAAAAGGGGHHH

Oogie boogie boss
15-10-2013, 14:22
Starting out, get the beginnings of a couple of core units, a character and maybe a war machine/some trolls. A lot of people will say you need BO, SO, NG, and such, and they are good units. But don't overlook the effectiveness of common orcs and goblins. Two units of 20 Orcs with 2 choppas or sword and board, 30 Gobbos with spear and shields, a character to lead them and some shooting/more hard hitting combat troops is a great core around which you can build an effective and fun OnG army. The wild stuff can be added as the force grows, but that's a good backbone you can play a few games with and see what you need when you head towards 1,000pts-1,500pts.

Nymie_the_Pooh
15-10-2013, 18:45
Greenskins are one of those armies that can do a bit of everything so take what you like. The one unit you might want to wait on until your collection is nicely rounded out is probably snottlings. Snottling pump wagons are nice, but the rules for swarms make the regular snottlings the least desirable unit in the book. Everything else in the book can find a place. Some units and heroes perform consistently better than others across a variety of list types, but they are all workable and if there is something you like the look of or think would be cool then take it. You could go practically all core if you want even which actually isn't a bad way to start because if you start with five hundred points of core then you can buy whatever you want to add to it as you take the army up to two thousand points. I don't know what your friends are playing, but if they are playing any sort of elite army it won't be long until their definition of a small game is somewhere in the 1250+ points range.

Some general guidelines for the army if you want guidance beyond buy what you want is to get a battle standard bearer (BSB) when you can fit one in. I'd go so far as to say the BSB is more important to Greenskins than a Wizard, but the BSB can not be the general so you won't be taking one until you can afford both it and another character in the same list. The BSB is the closest thing to a must have I can think of. You can get away without one for a while, but the BSB and the general are what end up keeping the core of the army in the fight. The turning point for me losing in most games is the moment where I lose one or both of those two. I won't discuss points as they are in the book, but if all you want is somebody to wave the banner then a Goblin works just as well as an Orc for the job and is the cheaper option. Armour and shield won't hurt, but there's no need to worry about a magic banner until you get to much higher point games.

Black Orc characters in units can help mitigate animosity, but are something that will be tough to afford until higher point levels and even then are only going into key units. A Black Orc hero won't prevent all animosity effects on his unit, but it helps. I can not tell you how many time I have rolled double one for animosity for a unit next to another unit with a black orc character in it, but I can tell you it feel like it is less than one in six games instead of being one in thirty six. Of course since my general is usually a black orc this means there are usually a couple of units real close to both sides of the unit he is in that are both testing.

The list Rawdogg15 posted is sort of a snapshot of what will typically be seen at tournaments. Savage Orcs, especially of the Big'Un variety with two hand weapons, are arguably the best core choice in the game. Especially if you have a shaman with the shrunken head in the unit as he makes them more survivable. They might be a point too cheap once two hand weapons and Big 'Uns upgrade are figured in, but that is debatable. If you use his list as a base then the next purchase I suggest is a BSB. The Shaman can continue to operate as the general until you can fit in the shaman, BSB, and another hero with a higher leadership. If you start with fifteen savage orcs then you likely bought twenty so they are a logical choice to build out first amongst the units.

I rarely see them suggested, but if you plan on staying small then I like the 'Arrer Boys. They fight in close combat just as well as regular boys armed with just a hand weapon and have a longer range on their bows than the Goblins. They have the versatility to fill a couple of different roles in a small points game where in larger points games their generalist nature sort of relegates their role as the specialist slide in to take over each role. When using them in higher point games I have them babysit war machines as they have the close combat capability to deal with a lot of the war machine hunters out there and their range let's them still have an affect even if nobody comes after the war machines, but smaller point games are where they tend to shine.

Night Goblins win out in the archery suggestion more because they make for a cheap way to add wounds to a Wizard from ranged attacks and the Fanatics are amazing when they do what you want rather than because of the unit's ability as archers. This is why you will find suggestions of 20 night goblin archers in a lot of threads. With goblins it's normal to see either small units to deliver tricks and/or protect wizards, or big units for the numbers. Until you are ready to pump up a unit of either type of goblins to fifty or more with all the trimmings I recommend keeping them in blocks of twenty and adding whole new units instead of padding out the individual units as you expand as this gets you more toys.

Again, all of these are simply suggestions on how to build out from what was suggested. Outside of possibly the BSB, I personally feel there is nothing that can be called a must take and outside of the Snottlings I feel everything in the army has a place it can work. The Snottlings might even have a place. I have yet to find it this edition outside of splitting up the Snottlings to accent other models, but that does not mean they have no place in the army. I just personally feel that if there is one purchase you can hold off on until you have built up your army then Snottlings are a good option to wait to buy.

Ben81
19-10-2013, 18:47
Having just played a 2.4k battle against skaven today I can say that, once again, my night goblin bus ('bus' = shallow front deep ranks) was the unit of the game! 50 gobbos with short bows with three great weapon wielding big bosses and nets. I didn't put fanatics in this one as I wanted the points elsewhere. It's a very versatile unit and is something you should consider when you get to 1200pts+. If you can get hold of the battle for skull pass gobbos then it's should save you some money. Either some wolf riders, spider riders or wolf chariots are also good for redirecting, dealing with chaff and hassling warmachines. A lot of people don't like spider riders but I prefer them as my battles usually involve a lot of terrain. Trolls are good, savage Orc big uns are excellent and black orcs rock steady.
For a small points battle like yours I'd consider a spear chukka or two, a unit of night gobbos with a fanatic or two, either savage big uns or normal Orc warriors, a night gobbo shaman and maybe a gobbo lord for ld8. Fill the rest out with trolls and you have a decent starter army.

LunarLizard
19-10-2013, 20:58
Thank you guys. I have a brilliant idea where to start. I'm going to GW to get me sum tomorrow. I'll let u know how I get on

Citadel97501
19-10-2013, 23:35
I really recommend Orc & goblin players take Chariots, yours are cheap, immune to animosity and hit pretty well. taking 3 to 4 with a horde of Savage Orc Big Un's, and a Black Orc unit works pretty well. That along with 2 or 3 Bolt Throwers and the rest in characters should be fine.

Another Option is just taking a choppy unit, a Bolt Thrower, a Chariot, and a support unit making them into little lanes of death.
-Goblin Bus with Nets, and Fanatics
-Black Orcs or Savage Orc Big Un's
-Bolt Thrower
-A Chariot or 2 one on the outside of the goblins, and one on the outside of the Black Orc's.

Basically you give your opponent nothing but bad options if they hang back you shoot them or charge with the chariots, if they try to close and charge, they get hit by a triple fanatic rush, and then get counter charged. Nothing likes this situation unless they have something like Fiery Convocation, Dwellers Below and stuff like that, which is fine since your fielding a wizard with a dispel scroll, and can always close with the chariots.

LunarLizard
21-10-2013, 17:12
So far I have now purchased
Black Orcs
Goblin Shaman
Night Goblin Fanatics
Night Goblin Regiment
Goblin Wolf Riders
Orc Boyz
Goblin Wolf Chariot
Goblin Rock Lobber

I need to buy a dude to be my general
And work out all my weapons and extras

Oogie boogie boss
21-10-2013, 17:21
How many BO and Common Orcs have you got? These are the units you need to focus on bringing up to a decent size if they're going to be effective. For now you can use the NG as a bunker for your shaman (I.e a small, cheap unit that sits behind your lines and basically helps prevent your shaman from getting picked out by shooting/spells).
Also, if you keep them near your Lobba, then any units (fliers, scouts, Miners, Gutter Runners, fast cav, etc) which try to take out your artillery will draw out the fanatics.

LunarLizard
21-10-2013, 17:27
Currently I only have 1 unit of them all but I do plan to get more next month. Thank you for the advice it's brilliant

Fighting Newfoundlander
22-10-2013, 05:33
If you're doing common orcs I'd look to ebay. especially w/ 2hw.

SteveW
28-10-2013, 23:04
The single best thing in the orc and goblin army is the Doom Diver Catapult. It's like a smart missile because you can redirect it into your enemies once it scatters and is great for taking out those big tough units of 1+ armor MC and Cav.

After that, Manglar squigs. Best chaff in the game.

Thandalor
28-10-2013, 23:25
Personally i like running my 3 Arachnorok list at 2400 points usually with a block of 50 big uns and 30 spider riders with the Spider banner.

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LunarLizard
04-11-2013, 11:50
I love the Arachnorok Model, Cant wait to use him.
I will be buying more models I think this week as I have restricted choice at the moment with my current purchase.
2 weeks and I am still waiting for half my models to arrive!
Another Question but what colour do you base coat your O&G's?

Yowzo
04-11-2013, 12:10
Another Question but what colour do you base coat your O&G's?

Black, always black for orcs. Drybrush the metals and skin tones from there. Usually I put orkhide shade over that and then a lighter green like knarloc or gretchin green to finish it off.

On models where there's not much metal or clothing like savage orcs you can start with a lighter shade and keep lighting up from there.

For night gobbos I basecoat a vallejo dark blue because that's the color of the robe and you really don't want to put too many layers on gobbos unless you have unlimited amounts of painting time and patience. Over the basecoat I just add a grey drybrush and that's it. For the skin it's just gretchin green then dark green ink.