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Kurgan Ironbeard
14-10-2013, 19:00
So my hydra got one shotted off the first shot from a steam tank in my first game yesterday and I was wondering whether there is anything I can do to avoid this happening again, apart from taking the hydra out all together, which I'm considering so I can add some cold ones and a master with a GW and potion of strength so I can hack the steam tank to pieces.

Gombol
14-10-2013, 19:17
Hide it behind a building. That, or hope it doesn't die to one shot again.

That's what cannons excell in doing, you just need to get lucky when they shoot. :)

Lord Inquisitor
14-10-2013, 19:25
1) Hide behind a wall. Cannonball hits the wall it destroys it but doesn't go any further.
2) Hide behind monstrous unit. Ogres, trolls, etc can make for good cannonball shields. Other monsters, sometimes (a soul grinder is a good shield for a greater daemon).
3) Buildings, other LOS blocking terrain.

fishound7
15-10-2013, 20:34
Put more wall's / fences down in the middle of the table. There probably should be more small terrain on the table usually. Usually people go wit buildings forests hills and thats it. bring a wall or two as part of your army. if people get suspicious make a whole terrain set with your own themed hills/forests/buildings/walls. ppl will think your just really into the hobby.

Shadeseraph
15-10-2013, 21:26
Remember, cannnons need LoS to the point they are firing, not to the big bad toy. Place a hydra behind a unit and, unless the cannon has the higher ground, have fun watching the cannoneer look for somewhere to place the shot.

Now, getting a 6" no swiftstride monster into combat from behind a unit, that's where the fun starts.

mostlyharmless
15-10-2013, 21:40
I would avoid using the hydra unless I had a few more than just one on the field. There's something to be said for Target saturation.

The alternative is to not worry that the cannon is firing at your hydra at all. If he's shooting your hydra, he's not shooting your other stuff, allowing them to get in position to destroy the rest of his army.

yabbadabba
15-10-2013, 22:00
Answers look pretty straight forward fella. I'd also remember that one-shotting a Hydra on the first turn isn't a common occurrence. I'd declare some terrain that looks opn (eg the standard forest/wood) as a TLOS blocker. That should help as well. Remember you can't litter the table with terrain or it will make life unfair for your opponent.

Kahadras
16-10-2013, 00:09
I'd agree with the advise listed in the above posts. When fielding monsters you have to accept that there are going to be times where your model is going to get blown off the table on turn one (especialy when fighting Dwarves or Empire). Your best bet is to give him as little time as possible in which to shoot you.

Von Wibble
17-10-2013, 19:48
Also target saturation. Try to make your army so that every unit is a good target for the enemy cannon - it forces him to think more and can lead to potential mistakes. If you are going to take monsters I would recommend taking at least 3.

Kayosiv
17-10-2013, 20:38
It's a huge mistake to take 3 monsters with some armies. Others, it is impossible.

What 3 monsters should empire take? Vampire Counts? Beastmen? It doesn't always work that way.

Kain187
17-10-2013, 21:06
What i do when playing vs a steam tank in particular is try and place my hydra on the opposite side of the tank. It can only fire forward and it is a steam point per 12 inches of range. This forces them to really reach for it and try for too many steam points and end up a blown up steam tank. For other cannons just dont worry about it. if you get killed you get killed. Usually they do not do the damage everyone saids and their easy points for your dark riders/harpies/locks.

mostlyharmless
17-10-2013, 21:51
It's a huge mistake to take 3 monsters with some armies. Others, it is impossible.

What 3 monsters should empire take? Vampire Counts? Beastmen? It doesn't always work that way.

1. He's clearly playing Dark Elves, and is capable of fielding multiple, cheap monsters
2. The armies you mention are irrelevant. They don't need to field monsters, but since you're asking, the Beasts and Vampire counts both have multiple monster options, including, but not limited to, Vargulf, Abyssal Terror, Terrorgeist, Zombie Dragon, Jabberslythe, Gorgon, Cygor . . . . you see what I'm getting at? The Empire question is just silly. Clearly the steam tank is just as much monster as any other big beastie.

boli
17-10-2013, 21:58
Get into combat... Unless your opponent is playing beardy :/

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

ArtificerArmour
17-10-2013, 22:05
go big or go home - multiple threats or no threats.

Cannons are annoying, but also a necessity and luckily not that common. Sometimes you've got to suck it up and lose a monster in the first turn, but having two more and a chariot or 3 on the board helps soften the blow.

Fighting Newfoundlander
17-10-2013, 22:19
I've got to agree with all the points made above, but most especially target saturation. Never take a monster if you know you'll be facing cannons (as I do 75% of the time) - take lots or none. Also - look to get some big buildings. We've got a 2 story inn. I go first I always place it mid-field. It's now at the point where my opponent will place it as his first choice along a table edge just to deny me the opportunity. That's when I place my smaller, but still LOS blocking, tower in the middle. I'd have to double check, but I don't think cannon balls can role up hills either. Thus hills (possibly) and walls force them to place directly on the monster, greatly improving the odds that it just pops right over your head. Also totally agree that chariots count as 'monsters' for target saturation purposes with cannons.

Kayosiv
18-10-2013, 01:43
Beasts and Vampire counts both have multiple monster options, including, but not limited to, Vargulf, Abyssal Terror, Terrorgeist, Zombie Dragon, Jabberslythe, Gorgon, Cygor . . . . you see what I'm getting at? The Empire question is just silly. Clearly the steam tank is just as much monster as any other big beastie.

I'm well aware that units with the troop type monsters are in fact what monsters are. What you're getting at doesn't address the point I was making that for some armies, taking 3+ monsters is a terrible idea. Beastmen, Orcs and Goblins, Empire, Heck sadly even Lizardmen. It is not always sound advice and depends army per army on if it is feasible.

Moss
18-10-2013, 02:07
The armies you mention are irrelevant. They don't need to field monsters, but since you're asking, the Beasts and Vampire counts both have multiple monster options, including, but not limited to, Vargulf, Abyssal Terror, Terrorgeist, Zombie Dragon, Jabberslythe, Gorgon, Cygor . . . . you see what I'm getting at? The Empire question is just silly. Clearly the steam tank is just as much monster as any other big beastie.

You're very clear on your point (and it's a good one), but have you ever seen half of the monsters you just listed? I'm just curious.

I don't even know what an Abyssal Terror is.

SteveW
18-10-2013, 02:29
If a steamtank is killing your hydra, it's not killing your important stuff so you already win.

Moss
18-10-2013, 02:39
If a steamtank is killing your hydra, it's not killing your important stuff so you already win.

I never understood that argument. Isn't his hydra important? Is it better to have the hydra die than to have three or four models killed from one of his units? What else would the cannon be shooting at?

Kayosiv
18-10-2013, 04:05
Whenever people would kill my stegadons in tournaments I would always say "ha, everything according to plan." Some people laughed, but others actually took it seriously and it messed with them. Was pretty fun.

SteveW
18-10-2013, 05:22
I never understood that argument. Isn't his hydra important? Is it better to have the hydra die than to have three or four models killed from one of his units? What else would the cannon be shooting at?

Mostly a joke.