PDA

View Full Version : Dark Elf 500 point escalation league



TheRadicalRadio
15-10-2013, 01:56
Hey all! So I'm starting the Darkies for a league at my local G-dubs and was looking for some input.

The limits on the league to start are no magic generals until the 1000 point level. Also each army will have a "regiment of renown" that's used in each game which will be judged on its paint job as well as the backstory written for it. As your unit succeeds in games it will garner start increases (aside from wounds)

Now I'm hesitant to dump more money than I really need too but considering I want to make the dark elves one of my primary armies to play I'm willing to bite it and fork out the cash on more expensive units (i.e. if I really have to I'll buy a box of witches)

This is what I have so far.
Dreadlord on Cold One with shield, heavy armor, and dragon scale cloak
10 Witch Elves with full command
5 Cold One Knights
5 Shades with Great Weapons

that list leaves me with 21 points to work with. Was thinking about giving the Shades light armor or throw a weapon on my dreadlord (not sure which) and using the rest to buy command slots for my Cold One Knights.

I love the Cold One models and with the Dreadlord thrown in the unit I figured I could make a really beautiful unit for my Regiment of Renown.

Any and all advice is welcome! I've been going nuts trying to decide on my core. Witch Elves are expensive as hell, Corairs are much cheaper but they don't really fit the theme of my army. The new sword/board and spear models are beautiful but after the price increase per model and I don't see the point in them. Which makes me super upset. I love the spearmen and it's always how I envision a Dark Elf army but they're so outclassed by everything else in my opinion. Some input on core would be very helpful

Kor'Vesh
15-10-2013, 08:02
Consider anything with ranged potential. Crossbowmen (maybe with the Banner of Eternal flame and shields) could work nicely, if you are going for a tower guard theme. You could take 6 Dark riders with a musician, RxBs and shiels for more harrassment. Corsairs with handbows are probably the best all round option though, due to the 4+ save.

Missile troops will help you remove both chaff and enemy ranks, both of which could hold up your COK. Plus it ensures every unit is a threat all of the time, thus giving your enemy tough choices to make. I think in your current list your rival knows to shoot the witch elves ASAP, and they will drop like flies. Any spare points could go onto the Luckstone or banner of eternal flame.

Romark
15-10-2013, 09:31
Consider anything with ranged potential. Crossbowmen (maybe with the Banner of Eternal flame and shields) could work nicely, if you are going for a tower guard theme. You could take 6 Dark riders with a musician, RxBs and shiels for more harrassment. Corsairs with handbows are probably the best all round option though, due to the 4+ save.

Missile troops will help you remove both chaff and enemy ranks, both of which could hold up your COK. Plus it ensures every unit is a threat all of the time, thus giving your enemy tough choices to make. I think in your current list your rival knows to shoot the witch elves ASAP, and they will drop like flies. Any spare points could go onto the Luckstone or banner of eternal flame.

I'm with you on the Corsairs. For a low pointed battle they have more staying power than the witches, and offer greater variety (if equipped with handbows).

Aside from that it looks like a fairly strong list. With the restrictions you have you may want to try to take advantage by switching around the Special to sneak some Warlocks in, could give you a big advantage in that phase.

TheRadicalRadio
15-10-2013, 21:15
I figured the Witch Elves could possible be a bad idea in such a low point game. As I mentioned I've been going by the internet for the most part on what's good and what's bad considering it's a new army and I haven't play tested anything myself yet.

If I were to go with Crossbows would I use that to fill out my core instead? That'd leave me with only my Cold One's to hold the line.

Another list I wrote up

Master-Cloak, shield, heavy armor, cold one
10 Corsairs Full Command
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Cold One Knights

that build out leaves me with 46 points left over to spend.

What kind of magic items would you suggest for the Master? I was thinking the Dawnstone would make him unkillable about probably unnecessary for a 500 point game so I'd probably try to give him some sort of magic weapon

Nymie_the_Pooh
15-10-2013, 21:19
Where are you looking to end points wise? If you want to keep cost down then it might help to figure out the list for the end of the league then make lists using those models.

TheRadicalRadio
15-10-2013, 21:42
Well I'd plan on making the Dark Elves my main fantasy army (my big determent was the high amount of finecast in the army and this release removed most of it) so I'll be buying and using most units anyways. I'm a hobbyist as well so just having pretty models makes me happy. Right now I'm more focused on what's effective at starting and learning the army quickly and going from there.

Kor'Vesh
15-10-2013, 22:00
Yeah a list at 500 points is a challenge, isn't it?

As I see it, you want the cold ones to be you big hitting unit. The core unit should support them, and having shooting is the best way to do this with the 10 or 15 guys you can afford. Handbow corsairs are the best at the best at this due to their 4+ save, nice range, and good shooting potential at short range and stand and shoot.

The bolt thrower is good, for sure, but I feel that the shades with great weapons add a bit more to your list. Their shooting has a high BS, and can be just where you want it. The GW giving you the option to throw some high initiative S5 attacks at a war machine or into a combat late in the game is good too. Plus their movement and disruption, they are just great.

So I'd go with your first list, with corsairs - if you can fit twelve, that would do nicely. If you want command, I'd stick it in the COK, as that is the unit that you want to win the fights.

So master - cold one, lance, heavy armour, shield, SDC, luck stone
12 corsairs with handbows
5 COK with dread knight and banner
5 shades with great weapons

I think that is 3 points shy, and the upgrades let you re-roll one save on you master, give an extra S6 attack to the COK and someone to accept challenges, and 1+ combat res. others may suggest better for those points but that's how id play it.

TheRadicalRadio
15-10-2013, 22:25
Yeah it's really rough makin' a list at this level. Thanks for all the input! I really like the list you wrote up.

I love the shade models but I was even considering using the mandrake dark eldar ones instead (they're essentially warlocks on foot. Crossbows=magic and greatweapons=magic swords)

So is there any hope for spearmen anymore? Even in a casual setting? Because I feel that even as an anvil unit the bleakswords would just be better because of the extra parry save.

Romark
16-10-2013, 07:30
Yeah it's really rough makin' a list at this level. Thanks for all the input! I really like the list you wrote up.

I love the shade models but I was even considering using the mandrake dark eldar ones instead (they're essentially warlocks on foot. Crossbows=magic and greatweapons=magic swords)

So is there any hope for spearmen anymore? Even in a casual setting? Because I feel that even as an anvil unit the bleakswords would just be better because of the extra parry save.

They attack in 3 ranks, which makes them slightly better at getting rid of smaller units, and in my mind they will always be the true Dagger fuel.

Kor'Vesh
16-10-2013, 08:04
Yeah, I agree with Romark. Spears give you the extra attacks in prolonged combats, or when charged - this lets you take advantage of dark elf re-rolls more readily. To be honest, DE are about the offence, and sword armed guys don't give much there, and they aren't exactly an exceptional anvil anyway!

There is always a place for some static combat res, and some sacrifices, and spears and swords will do this nicely (or as nicely as we're able). It's also worth remembering that the spears are clearly better than last edition, due to ASF and MP - the problem is more that corsairs gained more from their save, more range, and less points than warriors, so just look better. I think the point differential is about right though, and gives good internal balance. It's hard to work either unit into your list though, as you want the regiment of renown to be a nice looking COK unit. Adding a combat infantry block will just leave you too static, and not play to DE strengths.

I like your mandrake idea, btw, I think it will give a cool look to your army. There are lots of different upgrades you could use in the list I suggested: I'd think about the merits of the banner of eternal flame or discipline in the COK, or the potion of fool hardiness on the master for more offence. Get magical attacks in there (I think flame banner does this, but need to check) if you know you could have undead to deal with! Let us know how it goes!

TheRadicalRadio
17-10-2013, 02:36
My question about the spearmen were more in line with me thinking about where to take my army from here. The thing about this book is that there are soooooo many units I view as being viable contenders for some strong lists. Once I hit the 750 list do I go for more staying power? More offensive long range? More speed? Its rough! I'm sorry I'm practically asking you guys to build a list for me but the only armies I've played in fantasy are ogres (pretty straight forward army) and daemons (I don't like the new book at all) so its new for me to have such an intense amount of options with an army with such a large amount of different builds I could go for.

thanks again for all the replies and advice. I'm listening and pondering everything you guys say

Romark
17-10-2013, 08:26
My question about the spearmen were more in line with me thinking about where to take my army from here. The thing about this book is that there are soooooo many units I view as being viable contenders for some strong lists. Once I hit the 750 list do I go for more staying power? More offensive long range? More speed? Its rough! I'm sorry I'm practically asking you guys to build a list for me but the only armies I've played in fantasy are ogres (pretty straight forward army) and daemons (I don't like the new book at all) so its new for me to have such an intense amount of options with an army with such a large amount of different builds I could go for.

thanks again for all the replies and advice. I'm listening and pondering everything you guys say

Really all i can suggest here is to decide on a theme early if you are going to build a list like this, and your going to have to stick with it otherwise you could end up with lots of odd and ends and very little cohesion.

Personally, i'm looking at both a Black Ark theme and a separate Speed theme (though, i need to find which my Black Guard will fit into better...).

If you pick a theme to an army you like, and actually like it!, then even if it doesn't perform... Pity, but at least you like your army and you can learn to win with it :)

Or, go for powergaming (yawn). In which case, Witch Elves, Executioners and Cauldrons.

TheRadicalRadio
29-10-2013, 23:25
Thought I'd mention I got to play my first learning game with the list you wrote. I played against Lizardmen and stomped him. Now I don't know much about the new lizardmen book but his list didn't seem to great anyways (he's use to large point games and I thinking writing a 500 point list was tough for him so I get that) He had a unit of 10 saurus, chameleon skins, and a unit of like 20ish skinks with a chief.

The cold ones crushed and routed the saurus and one round of combined fire from the shades and corsairs killed enough skinks to make them run.

Shades are absolutely ridiculous. I was in his backfield on turn 2 and the range of 24 and being skirmishing made them a threat to anything. Also BS5 is unreal.

The one thing that I'm really not use to his having a strong anvil unit. I'm not really sure what to use in this army. Everything hits hard and fast but most things will die to a stiff wind (guessing that just sounds like a typical elf army) What do you use to tie up units to set up flank charges?

Romark
30-10-2013, 08:32
Thought I'd mention I got to play my first learning game with the list you wrote. I played against Lizardmen and stomped him. Now I don't know much about the new lizardmen book but his list didn't seem to great anyways (he's use to large point games and I thinking writing a 500 point list was tough for him so I get that) He had a unit of 10 saurus, chameleon skins, and a unit of like 20ish skinks with a chief.

The cold ones crushed and routed the saurus and one round of combined fire from the shades and corsairs killed enough skinks to make them run.

Shades are absolutely ridiculous. I was in his backfield on turn 2 and the range of 24 and being skirmishing made them a threat to anything. Also BS5 is unreal.

The one thing that I'm really not use to his having a strong anvil unit. I'm not really sure what to use in this army. Everything hits hard and fast but most things will die to a stiff wind (guessing that just sounds like a typical elf army) What do you use to tie up units to set up flank charges?

I'm not sure on this. But, if your desperate for idea's you could try a Swordsman tarpit? Not really the best option, seeing as they cost nearly 5 slaves, but with their Parry save they are a little more resilient than other units.

That being said, we aren't really built for prolonged combats. If your getting Cold One's in the front (also, as they are 2+AS they are as good an AS as you'll find for us) and another unit supporting on the flank, you want to be doing enough with your attacks to guarantee the combat. Obviously this isn't always the case.

Our strength lies in our offence, not defence. Glass cannon's everywhere!

Or, slot a life mage in there somewhere. That's got some defencive stuff.

TheRadicalRadio
31-10-2013, 02:55
I'll probably just learn how to adapt without any sort of defensive unit. My general thoughts on how this army is to be played is to weaken enemy units with shooting/magic and use my combat units to cut and break a unit in one round of combat. It's not what I'm use too but it'll be fun new way to play! I'm getting pretty stoked for this army

redarmy27
08-11-2013, 17:24
Great read! I'm currently doing an escalation league myself and my starter 500pt list is incredibly similar to yours. Keep up the updates going! I'd love to see you progress to the higher points.

Jake

TheRadicalRadio
12-11-2013, 02:14
I played 2 more games at 500 points against ogres and tomb kings. The cold one knights really are the game winners here

Tomb King list was pretty much just a bowline. My cold ones charged the front and started killing while my corsairs sneaked around back and killed the heirophant

Ogres was another slaughter. My poor corsairs got charged and overrun by his bull/bruiser unit but my cold ones were able to outmaneuver and land a charge on said unit and broke and overran them without taking a casualty. ASF+strength 6 reroll ones+2 up save=brutal unit. Meanwhile my shades did a good job of picking off his sabretusks and took his leadbelchers out of the game for a few turns due to casualty panic from shooting.

Now for the next leap I'm really wanting to use some blackguard considering they've been my favorite dark elf unit since the Age of Reckoning video game

Here's my list
Master with heavy armor, shield, lance, cloak, and cold one
10 Corsairs
5 Dark Riders with musician shields and crossbows
5 Cold One Knights full command
10 black guard full command

this list also leaves me with 50 points to spend. Forgot tomention it was a 750 list

Now I'm hobbying on a budget so I'm trying to limit the amount of boxes I have to buy for each point leap. Currently I own 10 cold one knights, the master on a dreadlord, 10 corsairs, and 5 mandrakes (shades) The budget for the next leap is 100 bucks.

What do you guys think? Will it work or am I too focused on the units I like versus the units that work well together?