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Auzu
21-03-2005, 16:29
Are there is anyone that is intrested in helping making a set of (hard) Sci-FI rules for a 28mm wargame?

Tha basic idea is to have a Sci-fi game that will be:

Not fantasy in space so no orks, swords, godlike heroes, magic etc
Movement and manouver to keep yor troops alive
Easy to learn hard to master and fast paced
Four diffrent Armies
No points cost
Scenario based
You should be able to use GW, Warzone, Void, Starship troopers etc models for the game
The number of models will be somwhere around 30 with one to two light vehicles
The "heroes" would have the same stast as regular troopers but with diffrent skills and traits to make them special
The rules would include things like off map bombarment, low level insertions from drop ships, Close support from fighters, infiltrating, tunnels etc


The armies would be:


Core world drop troops: Think Marines from aliens when it comes to attitued and there equipment and weapons would be the best the core worlds has to offer. Models to use would be something like GW storm troopers or Moongose Starsship troopers infantry. Vehicles would include light ifv's and heavy battle suits.
Colonial militia: A mix of Colonial defence militia and angry mobs. The militia would use second rate military equipment but would be abel to carry heavier special weapons than the drop troops. The mobs would use a mix of low quality weapons, bu what they lack in fire power they make up for in enthusiasm. The defence militia would be able to use heavier IFV's than the drop troops, medium battle suits and civilian vehicles but there quality would be lacking. Models tha could be used would be something like GW cadian IG or void marines for the militia
Mega cooperation security teams: The Mega cooperation lack the manpower of the core worlds and colonies but make up for it with state of the art technology mercinaries and robotic armies: The security teams would have few or no vehicles light robots and a mix of mercinaries and light infantry. Models that could be used would be UM urban war syntha a mix of gw models etc
Unknown alien species: Basicly bugs, extreamly few shooting weapons if any deadly in close quarters: So far simply the basic space bug enemy as seen in starship troopers or aliens etc.


Now there would really not be any big diffrences between the drop troops of the Gloria core federation or the core Dominion of Etain so they will just use the same Core world drop troop list.

Not much on rules yet but the stat system should be based on the void one.

When it comes to the background story it would be something like:

Six "Core worlds" that are extreamly urban- industrilised each core world would be a far future super power ruling over a large number of colonies
Inner rim colonies: The inner rim colonies would be the some of the oldest colonies and many of them have archived indipendence from the "core worlds" and have large ambitions
Outer rim: The clear underdogs, the outer rim consist of mostly core world colonies wanting freedome and indipendence from the totalitarian rule of the core worlds
With the first contact with the "bug" Aliens turning into a disaster and massive rebellions in the outer rim combined with a political crissis in the core worlds evryone is preparing for a all out war


So if you are intrested just post in this thread or you could just send me a pm.

anarchistica
22-03-2005, 23:50
Do you know FAD (http://www.freewebs.com/weaselfierce/), by our own Weasel Fierce? Looking at the stuff you mentioned, it seems to be pretty much what you're looking for.

Oh, and do you know FWG (http://www.freewargamesrules.co.uk/index.htm)? If you plan on writing rules you should definitely have a look at some other rulessets, more is better.

the_yuk
30-03-2005, 11:10
Definatly sounds interesting. Id be interested in giving it a go when you get it more refined, my troops are in storage atm so no games for me. Ive been toying with a forgotten imperial colonial theme for my guard, so this would make so good playing to fit my fluff, which i still have to put onto paper.

Auzu
01-04-2005, 10:50
Anar I and Weasel had many disscusions about rules and general ideas and when it comes to rulesI would mostly look at the void rules.

EDIT: In a hurry will elaborate a bit more later.

malika
03-04-2005, 16:17
It kind of reminds me of Star Craft a bit, the colonial forces and the bug like insects. However it is interesting, what kind of feel do you want to give humanity of the future? The Gothic 40k feel? Or the more redneck feel of Star Craft?

salty
03-04-2005, 16:25
I would most definitely be interested! Sounds pretty cool if you ask me!

Salty :)

Auzu
03-04-2005, 18:56
The Gothic 40k feel? Or the more redneck feel of Star Craft? The general feel should be that of aliens and starcraft.

malika
03-04-2005, 19:07
Okay a more futuristic feel, will there be a big and detailed background to it, kind of like what 40k is doing? Because it kind of has this Star Craft, but also cyberpunk feel to it, especially if you want to put the influence of the Alien movies in there.

salty
04-04-2005, 13:32
Are there any basic rules already in place?

Salty :)

Auzu
04-04-2005, 16:06
Not really but I think it should look something like the void rules but more advanced.

salty
04-04-2005, 16:33
Void rules? Never heard of 'em. If you could give me a link to them, or where I could get them, it'd be great!

Salty :)

Auzu
04-04-2005, 16:53
You can find the rules here http://www.i-kore.com/um/downloads/void/void1.1_eng.pdf but it is mostly the stat and weapon system that we will use from it. Rules for Movment, cover, Pinning, vehicles and others would be or own.

salty
04-04-2005, 21:13
Okey Dokey (:D)
I am thinking though it may be better suited to a skirmish game to start off with...

Salty :)

Sojourner
05-04-2005, 13:28
Sounds good. I'd definitely be interested - and indeed it might be handy for a secret parallel project of mine.

May I also direct you to a nice little resource for 'battlesuit' inspiration - Maschinenkrieger. See here: http://home.att.net/~mak3000/hm.html

malika
05-04-2005, 15:50
Since Im more interested in the background and not really in the rules (I have given up my gaming days ages ago) I will comment on that:



Core world drop troops: Think Marines from aliens when it comes to attitued and there equipment and weapons would be the best the core worlds has to offer. Models to use would be something like GW storm troopers or Moongose Starsship troopers infantry. Vehicles would include light ifv's and heavy battle suits.
Sounds good, high tech heavily armoured troups, backgroundwise you could sort of compare them to the Space Marines of 40k, but then without the whole knightly and close combat thing. I would however give them sort of shuttle transports similar to the Valkery of the Imperial Guard.



Colonial militia: A mix of Colonial defence militia and angry mobs. The militia would use second rate military equipment but would be abel to carry heavier special weapons than the drop troops. The mobs would use a mix of low quality weapons, bu what they lack in fire power they make up for in enthusiasm. The defence militia would be able to use heavier IFV's than the drop troops, medium battle suits and civilian vehicles but there quality would be lacking. Models tha could be used would be something like GW cadian IG or void marines for the militia
I imagine them as guerillas mostly, locals picking up guns and equipment taken from their dead enemies, perhaps also locally produced military hardware, but they are mostly civilians so rebuilt civilian vehicles mostly I think.



Mega cooperation security teams: The Mega cooperation lack the manpower of the core worlds and colonies but make up for it with state of the art technology mercinaries and robotic armies: The security teams would have few or no vehicles light robots and a mix of mercinaries and light infantry. Models that could be used would be UM urban war syntha a mix of gw models etc
Just small units of very high tech agents and specialized robots, I dont think they would really field armies, they would hire mercenaries though perhaps? I personally would like to see mercenary assassins similar to the Ghost in StarCraft being employed by these companies.



Unknown alien species: Basicly bugs, extreamly few shooting weapons if any deadly in close quarters: So far simply the basic space bug enemy as seen in starship troopers or aliens etc.

Nothing to say on this yet.




]Six "Core worlds" that are extreamly urban- industrilised each core world would be a far future super power ruling over a large number of colonies

Would be cooler I think if it were 6 Core systems with each one capital world.


Inner rim colonies: The inner rim colonies would be the some of the oldest colonies and many of them have archived indipendence from the "core worlds" and have large ambitions
Okay, so they are independant, but let them have stable relationships with the Core Worlds, lots of trading going on here. However some of there Inner Rim colonies would be supporting the Outer rim colonies.


Outer rim: The clear underdogs, the outer rim consist of mostly core world colonies wanting freedome and indipendence from the totalitarian rule of the core worlds
Okay these would be located outside the Core area, but are under indirect control of the Core systems, sort of like an extremer version of the US influence in Latin America during the Cold War. So have the Core systems place dictators in those Outer Rim Colonies who are loyal to them, military juntas every once in a while.


With the first contact with the "bug" Aliens turning into a disaster and massive rebellions in the outer rim combined with a political crissis in the core worlds evryone is preparing for a all out war

How big is the presence of these Aliens? Are they in full offensive or are they still small scouting forces? Perhaps some of the Outer Rim Colonies might try to side with these Aliens in order to get liberated from the oppression of the Core Worlds.

But Im curious, where and when does this universe take place? Is humanity still using the nation things we have now (imagine the USA in space or something) or are there totally different factions now? Do the Core Worlds fight amongst themselves or do they all work together? I like the idea of them having fought each other in the past, but now they work together in exploiting the colonies. (similar to the current Western World and the Third World perhaps).

An idea would be perhaps if we get more people interested in this idea of yours that we could create a different message board to discuss all these things on.

malika
05-04-2005, 15:56
Not fantasy in space so no orks, swords, godlike heroes, magic etc
Totally agree on that! Well magic coud perhaps be psychic powers, but again compare them to StarCraft Ghosts



Easy to learn hard to master and fast paced
Very good!



Four diffrent Armies
Lets start with that, four basic armies which can of course be unique, I mean just look at the Imperial Guard codex, something with a doctrine system might be interesting, especially for those Core World and colony armies.



No points cost
How will you solve the problem of fighting against very unequal armies then?



You should be able to use GW, Warzone, Void, Starship troopers etc models for the game
True, but personally I would prefere to see lots of converting instead of simply using the models of the other games.



The number of models will be somwhere around 30 with one to two light vehicles
Could be cool, but I'd like to see a big battle from time to time, so far the game will be skirmishes then right and no wars?



The "heroes" would have the same stast as regular troopers but with diffrent skills and traits to make them special
Depends on the technology, I could see the Core Worlds employing genetically altered troops or bionicaly upgraded troopers.

Sojourner
05-04-2005, 16:02
I'd suggest that you leave open the possibility of scaling up to epic-sized battles, incidentally. Some sort of direct relation that allows you to consider each squad as a single unit, or something.

malika
05-04-2005, 16:07
If we are discussing different scales...a BFG scale could be cool too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet (too late I already am), but space ship battles could be interesting!

But okay so far I think the basic game would be skirmishes, perfect fitting for the guerilla actions of the Colonies and the small scout forces of the bug aliens.

However big wars would be fought too I think, something like a very big campaign against a certain colony because that colony is getting too powerful or is being too independent.

Auzu
10-04-2005, 00:01
Alright I found some test army lists that I made some time ago as you might notice I used the Void system for stats and weapons but with some changes. Also the lists are just me throwing some ideas around to find a general feel of the armies. In a recent revelation I noticed that the Military list aren't really high tech enought but we will solve that later

On rules I was thinking something like this: You have three actions per turn for each unit: Move, Shoot, Assult, You may move trice shoot twice and assult once. So lets say I have a unit of Drop troops I could choose to: Move, shoot, move or lets say move move shoot etc.

On suppression: When I and Weasel was disscusing the system we both had the the same idea of the improtance of supression/pinning in a sc-fi morder game. SO we where thinking something along the lines of "If a unit gets shoot at more times than there are models in the unit it has to test for suppresion " a unit that becomes suppresed will have to search for cover and stay there until t cools down ;) it will be able to shoot but not move around.

Some more on weapons: Right, The At ad Ap values shoes if the weapon is made for being Anti personal or Anti tank and a AP weapon can't hurt a Tank and AP weapon can't hit person. If I say like tthis I have a hard time seeing a British soldier using a stinger missil to take out one foot soldier. Other things on weapons no maximum ranges, yes you heard me oki some weapons will have a maximum range (greneade pistols and flamer kind weapons) but otherwise no maximum range. BUT you will still have a short/Medium/Long/Extrem range modifiers on to hit rolls.

So I suggest that evryone that want to be part in the devolopment of the rules downloads a copyof the voids rules and reads them thru focusing on the weapon and stats part, also a copy of the Aliens: colonial marines technical manual would be esential. :)

Well if anyone is intreseted my msn is Space_marine6@hotmail.com

Auzu
10-04-2005, 00:36
Arghh I made a long response to Malika and hust when I was getting finished with it I succeded un restarting the computer so lets try again:


Sounds good, high tech heavily armoured troups, backgroundwise you could sort of compare them to the Space Marines of 40k, but then without the whole knightly and close combat thing. I would however give them sort of shuttle transports similar to the Valkery of the Imperial Guard.

Something like that, The drop troops will make heavy use off smaller drop ships but more on that later.


I imagine them as guerillas mostly, locals picking up guns and equipment taken from their dead enemies, perhaps also locally produced military hardware, but they are mostly civilians so rebuilt civilian vehicles mostly I think.

They would have a mix raging from Trained militia and second or even third rate IFV's too Gureillas laying ambushes angry mobs and civilian vehicles with machine guns.


Just small units of very high tech agents and specialized robots, I dont think they would really field armies, they would hire mercenaries though perhaps? I personally would like to see mercenary assassins similar to the Ghost in StarCraft being employed by these companies.

I don't know how clear I was on this but the copperations wouldn't really have any "armies" but more security/strike teeams that take care in guarding and enforcing copperate intrests. Using a mix of robots, local/alien/higly trained mercenaries and cooperate agents.

On the backgroun bits: Nothing is decided yet and I was just throwing some ideas around and I lagree with what you have said so if you are intrested in helping with writting and devoloping the background that would be great.


But Im curious, where and when does this universe take place? Is humanity still using the nation things we have now (imagine the USA in space or something) or are there totally different factions now? Do the Core Worlds fight amongst themselves or do they all work together? I like the idea of them having fought each other in the past, but now they work together in exploiting the colonies. (similar to the current Western World and the Third World perhaps). It takes place somwhere in the far future with no connection with or own world and no connection with earth. But some of the core worlds would have some cultural traits in common with real life nations as I belive that you really can't get away from it but nothing like "The united kingdom of space Britain" ;)

Auzu
10-04-2005, 00:45
Totally agree on that! Well magic coud perhaps be psychic powers, but again compare them to StarCraft Ghosts

Maybe maybe not we would have too discusse that...


Lets start with that, four basic armies which can of course be unique, I mean just look at the Imperial Guard codex, something with a doctrine system might be interesting, especially for those Core World and colony armies.

I was thinking like this: You get a army list and you get X number of infantry squads X numbers of support units then you can frelly decide if you want to lets say take only drop ships or only walkers or only tanks or snipers or just a mix. I will try too explain it better later but take a look at the test army lists i wrote up. It is important that aslong that the core rules aren't finished evrfything that has to do with the army lists are just ideas.


How will you solve the problem of fighting against very unequal armies then?

By : Making it a scenario based game that you don't play if you want a competive 100% envairoment and try to balance the armies you get to use.


Could be cool, but I'd like to see a big battle from time to time, so far the game will be skirmishes then right and no wars?

Well it could just be a small pice of a larger scale action. ;)

If there is a enought intrest I will try to set up a forum.

anarchistica
10-04-2005, 01:35
Dude, what the heck were you on when you wrote this and where can i get it? :D

I've edited the Colonial Militia file, get it here (http://venus.walagata.com/w/anarchistica/Colonial_Militia_edited.rtf)

Comments later.

Auzu
10-04-2005, 11:06
Dude, what the heck were you on when you wrote this and where can i get it? As I said it was just omething I threw togheter, anyways you are from the netherlands so you should be able to find something that can simulate the mind of a crazy swede. ;)

Also I edited your post so the link works. :p

malika
10-04-2005, 12:59
Arghh I made a long response to Malika and hust when I was getting finished with it I succeded un restarting the computer so lets try again:

Computers can be really annoying sometimes, I had plenty of times that something similar happened to me.


They would have a mix raging from Trained militia and second or even third rate IFV's too Gureillas laying ambushes angry mobs and civilian vehicles with machine guns.
I think there should be an option that you could create two different armies with this faction (again using something in the lines of a doctrine system), so you could have a trained guerilla group or the angry civilan mobs, and/or of course a combination of the two.


I don't know how clear I was on this but the copperations wouldn't really have any "armies" but more security/strike teeams that take care in guarding and enforcing copperate intrests. Using a mix of robots, local/alien/higly trained mercenaries and cooperate agents.

I dont see the coorporations directly fight conflicts, they would do so if their facilities get a direct attack or they need to take out specific targets. Most of the time however I think they would call in the larger governments of the Core Worlds to take care of these uprisings. The coorporations and the governments are different organisations yes, but both have great interests in each other.


On the backgroun bits: Nothing is decided yet and I was just throwing some ideas around and I lagree with what you have said so if you are intrested in helping with writting and devoloping the background that would be great.
I'd love to help out with this project :)


If there is a enought intrest I will try to set up a forum.
I'll try to look for more interested souls :)

salty
10-04-2005, 16:29
I think there are plenty of interested souls now :D

I'd be happy to write some rules or some fiction for the game?

Salty :)

anarchistica
10-04-2005, 16:31
I took the liberty of setting up a forum (http://s6.invisionfree.com/wargaming_rd/index.php?act=SC&c=8) on my scratchbook board. If you are interested, we can use that. I've already made forums and am currently adding stickies. You don't have to use it of course but it would save you some effort and you would be calling the shots. If you want limited viewing, different forums or anything, it's up to you.

Auzu
10-04-2005, 17:17
Anar: Thank you, it looks great.

malika
10-04-2005, 18:08
Okay I joined up :)

Sojourner
11-04-2005, 12:00
Joined.

Blah. See. Long enough. Bloody Portent.

salty
11-04-2005, 17:05
I have joined too.

Salty :)