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View Full Version : Thinking about getting back into 40k



cornonthecob
18-10-2013, 09:53
I dropped out of 40k last year when I just couldn't take the rules anymore, however i'm willing to give it another chance.

I'm not sure of what army to go for though.

I have a dislike of Marines finding the oversaturation (in both sales and actual users) rather irritating.

I also (amusingly) dislike the vehicle rules and flyers. So i've got it pretty much down to Nid's and Daemons.

If I did daemons I'd probably try and mono-theme it (most likely khorne or Tzeentch)

Reflex
18-10-2013, 10:11
Mate if you dropped off because of the rules then I wouldn't smash serious cash on an army. Nothing has changed rules wise and its probably getting worse. ..

EvilFuzzyDoom
18-10-2013, 10:11
Daemons have some natty new models. 'Nids are still good and gribbly like always.

duffybear1988
18-10-2013, 11:11
Mate if you dropped off because of the rules then I wouldn't smash serious cash on an army. Nothing has changed rules wise and its probably getting worse. ..

This. From the sounds of it you dislike 6th edition (or marmite edition as I like to call it) almost entirely.

As for the armies - Nids are weak and Daemons are gimmicky.

As a fellow 6th edition hater I say this - Don't do it to yourself man!!!! :D

Mack
18-10-2013, 11:29
But the fact that you are back after only a year shows that like the rest of us, breaks are good.

6th edition isn't bad, it's just not what we were used to. With every new edition there is a lot of hate for about 12-18 months then people get used to the rules, and it's fine until the next edition release.

That is the thing you need to ask yourself...Can you stomach the change. One constant in 40k is that there WILL be change.

I personally think this is the healthiest 40k has been in a long time. GW is doing a good job of releases and new models, so I look at that as a positive.

Good luck on your choice though.

FraustyTheSnowman
18-10-2013, 16:08
Was it just the vehicles and flier rules that you didn't like or is there more to it? I think the exact reasons behind you leaving before will have a lot to say on if you should bother coming back. In all honesty, if there are other games available in your area I would strongly suggest trying them out before returning to 40k. I'm trying to get infinity to pick up traction in my area, as I think it's a better game in every single way I can think of.

Any more my primary army for 40k is daemons, so if you want any advice feel free to ask. Depending on what sort of competition you're going up against, mono khorne is likely a bad idea. Khorne units suffer the most from sixth. If you're slow and assault based, you're not going to do well on the table against anything but other terrible armies. Going that route, I can only assume will lead to further frustration with the rules, so likely not worth it. Now, there are decent khorne units...

If going one god only, mono tzeentch is the strongest. Which may or may not be good. You might be looking to just have fun throwing dice with friends...and if you go mono tzeentch there's every likelihood you'll end up with a seriously solid army...which can lead to crushing friends and pissing people off. Fateweaver, screamerstar (if you don't know ask), lord of change...all very solid units, horrors aren't bad (they sure as hell aren't good either...but they're better than bloodletters by a mile), flamers can be used to good effect (contrary to my initial dislike of their updated rules), as can starless screamers. The tzeentch chariots are bad or terrible...so until gw gets around to faqing them I'd steer clear.

matt_17
18-10-2013, 17:35
It seems that FraustyTheSnowman hasn't heard of hounds, bloodthirsters or chainstriking bloodletters. Mono-Khorne can be fast, hard-hitting and brutally effective.

JC1
18-10-2013, 19:53
NIDS! lots of tervigons as troops, hive commander tyrant, outflanking tervigon ftw! Also Mawloc Trygon awesomeness...

Gungo
18-10-2013, 20:39
NIDS! lots of tervigons as troops, hive commander tyrant, outflanking tervigon ftw! Also Mawloc Trygon awesomeness...

Second nids, new codex rumoured for january and many new models. Just slowly start collecting and building the core units you like now and then in nov/december when all the leaks and rules hit you can fill out the rest of your list.

It also doesnt have much vehicle shenanigans

FraustyTheSnowman
19-10-2013, 00:19
It seems that FraustyTheSnowman hasn't heard of hounds, bloodthirsters or chainstriking bloodletters. Mono-Khorne can be fast, hard-hitting and brutally effective.

It seems you might want to read what I actually typed. That bit about "now there are decent khorne units..."
Hounds are good, crushers are alright, thirster is ok but suffers from being overly specialized, I've heard the cannon is good. Though I will be honest and say I've no clue what you're talking about with chainstriking bloodletters. Every idea I've seen proposed for bloodletters has been crap though.

Rolsheen
19-10-2013, 08:07
While I do agree that 'nids are a fun army to play with, until they get there new codex in January? they are lacking some of the hitting power that they use to have. Chaos Daemons are well "chaotic" having your units disappear because of a bad dice roll on the winds of chaos table will ruin your day, but a successful roll on the rewards will let your army decimate the battlefield. Tau, as long as there not spread out there supporting fire will pretty much give any enemy a bloody nose. Eldar guardians and shuriken weapons, enough said.

Dark Primus
19-10-2013, 20:51
I really liked the Daemons till now, I have shelved them and sold off the majority of the metal models so far, was planning to replace them with plastic but... they are just simple lacking for me right now. So I will have to wait five years till the next one to see if it will improve.
I have never seen a codex getting such a nerfbat before.

FraustyTheSnowman
19-10-2013, 22:44
Darkprimus...don't take this wrong, but you're not thinking very deeply if you think the codex as a whole was nerfed. Your individual army might have lost some power...I played an Epi list, so I feel ya there...but as a whole the army is significantly better.

Midnight Runner
20-10-2013, 16:16
'nids got a new codex on the horizon so maybe wait for that if you go them. For Daemons, I love Khorne who is unfortunatly the weakest but you can still be pretty decent - obligatory 'thirster(s), speedy Flesh Hounds and Bloodcrushers (with icons to allow the Bloodletters to land on target together). Skull cannons are good due to the lack of grenades armywide and the Heralds have a good selection of loci/gifts, and Khorne Soulgrinders are cheap. They can be a flavoursome army :skull:

Horus38
22-10-2013, 17:09
I personally think this is the healthiest 40k has been in a long time. GW is doing a good job of releases and new models, so I look at that as a positive.

2nded. I'd pretty much given up on the game after 5th edition and have really been enjoying 6th edition more so then ever before. There was (IMHO) an imbalance right about this time last year when we had the new rule set (looking at you flyers) but only a couple books. This has been getting exponentially better as new books come out, and I think it will peak once the Orks, IG and Tyranids get redone early next year.

Dark Primus
25-10-2013, 07:42
Darkprimus...don't take this wrong, but you're not thinking very deeply if you think the codex as a whole was nerfed. Your individual army might have lost some power...I played an Epi list, so I feel ya there...but as a whole the army is significantly better.

No I didn't take it the wrong way. :) And I do disagree with you there. The army is more vulnerable now then it was before.

Snake Eyes
25-10-2013, 09:18
It entirely depends on what you want from the hobby. If you play in a competitive setting (or want to) then Daemons are probably the better bet. At the moment they are a top tier army with the likes of the Flying Circus style list and the Screamerstar abuse. If you want the mono god option then I would second the vote for Tzeentch. Fate Weaver backed up by disc heralds, units of screamers, some horrors and a Soul Grinder will give you a solid and reasonably competitive army.

If you are more for the fun and fluff elements then Tyranids may be a better option. They have a lot of flavour and can do some cool interactions. The new Nid book is rumoured for a January release which would provide some cool new models and some new rules. Should bring there options for competitive play higher.

malisteen
25-10-2013, 10:10
Tyranids are due for a new book soon. If considering the bugs, I'd hold off on rules, though the models are sure to see the customary massive price jump (wouldn't be shocked to see 10 gaunts for us$50), so who knows, maybe starting now is better for that reason.

Daemons are very strong right now. On a proper table with a decent amount of LOS blocking terrain they have builds that are nigh unbeatable, and even on more sparse boards, they can give the ultrashootydeath combinations of Tau and Eldar a run for their money, as long as their luck holds out.

While it's true that 6th mostly just wasn't what we were expecting (though a lot of its rules are really clunky), the main thing stopping it from coming to be accepted like 8e fantasy seems to have been on the other side is that the 8e fantasy army books have largely been very well designed, and while there are noticeable winners and losers (say, Chaos Mortals, High Elves, and Ogres in the former case, Tomb Kings and Beastmen in the latter), the gap between them is actually about as small as its ever been in Fantasy's history, and most of the 8e books have a pretty wide variety of viable builds in them. It's an almost miraculous outcome, given GW's notorious lack of serious play testing.

Sadly, on the 40k end, things look much more like the lack of testing would imply that they should look. There are games that, depending on the faction selected and the terrain set up, just have forgone conclusions, and hardly need to be played at all. In even vaguely competitive arenas, Tau and Eldar just absolutely dominate open tables (or even tables with plenty of terrain, so long as that terrain doesn't deny line of sight outright), with only daemons giving them a run for their money, while on boards where line of sight at long range isn't a given, daemons dominate, and the run for their money faction is, iirc, nids? Of course, that's on the semi competitive front, so it isn't just any army from those factions, but rather specific builds.

Anyway, the point is that interfaction balance is a lot weaker in 6e 40k books than 8e fantasy books, and intrafaction balance isn't great either. So if that kind of thing prevents you from enjoying a game, or if clunky, random core rules do, or games that encourage large armies, and then charge a ton per model (though notably that's one area where fantasy is worse than 40k). But if you like the setting and enjoy the hobby and sharing that hobby with other players in a casual gaming environment is your thing, then 40k can still be fun, even if it's despite the game rules rather than because of them.


As for nids and daemons, nids again are waiting on a new book, but daemons are out and are one of the strong armies right now. However, they greatly exacerbate the randomness issue in 6e, with random tables for start of turn effects, random tables for character equipment, a lot of deep striking units - the most random way to go, and strategies that typically revolve around an item called the 'Grimoire of True Names', but which basically amounts to 'roll a succession of consecutive 3+ results, if you succeed at least as many times as your opponent has shooting phases to shoot at you, you win the game'.

For single faction builds, tzeentch is unquestionably best, with access to divination, a special character who let's you re-roll the grimoire, and one of the best units to use the book on, Just take Carlos, four heralds on discs, a max unit of screamers, a couple large units of horrors, and whatever else appeals to you with any points you have left over. Put all the heralds in the screamers, cast the 4++ divination spell on them (with four diviners in the unit plus carlos off to the side somewhere, you should get it through), book em (using carlos's reroll if necessary) to up that to a 2++, and cram your multi-wound, 2++ save jetbike deathstar with meltabite action down your opponent's face, using spare mastery valuse to takka their support units to death with tzeentch fire from horrors and heralds.

Other single alignment daemon subfactions are less overwhelming, but still casually playable. Khorne likes big units of hounds led by heralds on juggernauts, again with the book. Nurgle has some tough and slow units, and some fast units with banners to deep strike them off of which work well together, though the recent proliferation of shooty units that ignore cover saves really hurts the stinky one's forces. Slaanesh has some extremely fast and killy units, though they're quite fragile and can be difficult to effectively deliver. Additionally, both Khorne and Tzeentch can spam an impressive number of FMCs, between greater daemons in HQ and Princes in Heavy Support.

None of those builds are as tough as the screamer star (though hound star comes close if you take some tzeentch along for divination and maybe carlos), and a couple of them play a bit better with some chaos marine allies.

Latro_
25-10-2013, 10:50
just go for horde orks, they aint serious are fun to play, can be shooty and choppy with a wide range of units that you can almost get away with not having vehicles for with and the hope is a new book at some point in the net 2 years.

Lootas, Boyz, Bikes and ye golden