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View Full Version : How much better are beastmen with the herdstone?



@allmyownbattles
19-10-2013, 00:12
I'm a long time dwarf player and have a fairly good record with them. Wanting to try something new, I've assembled a beastmen force. Unfortunately, of the five or six games I've played so far with beasts (at around 1000 points), I've lost every one. Undaunted, I'm currently glueing a load more beasts together for their first 2400 point battle, for which I have high hopes and have been plotting and scheming for some time. So my question is: are beastmen that much better with the herdstone spam? I'm running four shaman in my list, all of whom should be within range of the herdstone, for the first couple of turns at least. Do the other beastmen players on here, and their opponents, think I'll notice a difference? What tips can you give me for effective herdstone use?

Malagor
19-10-2013, 20:45
I have won around half my matches with beastmen and never used the herdstone. Granted those time I have won I used a lvl 4 shaman with lore of beasts.
Herdstone I say is not needed for victory but might make it a bit easier depending on opponent army.

MLP
20-10-2013, 17:28
As malagor said a herdstone isn't required to win.

However as a new player I gives you a bit of a safety net until you can learn to use the rest of he army without it.

With a proper herdstone setup it's almost unequaled in pure magic power. Maybe dark elves can still match the power dice output but not many armies out there can cope against it.

theshoveller
20-10-2013, 17:36
I'm a long time dwarf player and have a fairly good record with them. Wanting to try something new, I've assembled a beastmen force. Unfortunately, of the five or six games I've played so far with beasts (at around 1000 points), I've lost every one. Undaunted, I'm currently glueing a load more beasts together for their first 2400 point battle, for which I have high hopes and have been plotting and scheming for some time. So my question is: are beastmen that much better with the herdstone spam? I'm running four shaman in my list, all of whom should be within range of the herdstone, for the first couple of turns at least. Do the other beastmen players on here, and their opponents, think I'll notice a difference? What tips can you give me for effective herdstone use?
Do I read you right that you're running four shamen without a herdstone, currently? I'd say that such a list is begging for a herdstone to make it really effective, but there are other (less magic heavy) set-ups that also work.

fishound7
21-10-2013, 04:13
You don't have to run herdstone to win. It depends on your meta and playstyle your going for. lvl 1 shadow's at herdstone is great for maisma. Mainly due to its spell range. Its a huge tell tell sign of how your going to set up with taking a herdstone. Which is why I don't like it. Running a Great bray shaman with fencer blades/ jagged dagger/+4 ward is great with lore of beasts. Cast savage beast on bsb and he will generate a lot of powerdice also. just different idea's.

A tip for using a herdstone is take a 10 man raider unit as a bunker for 2 or so shaman's. The flexibilty of movement from the skirmishing unit is nice. The unit can kill weak chaff thats sent after your herdstone crew. Keep your shamans away from each other as they will blow up from time to time due to miscasting.

With 4 shaman's you should be 10+ powerdice pretty much all the time. If your taking shadow just single dice cast maisma to try and draw out dispel dice from opponent.

popisdead
21-10-2013, 16:16
It is well used in a magic missile battery coupled with the Hagtree fetish.

With DPs flying around I have dropped it. Now I am using a Mino-bus to much greater effect.

It is still good but a good general can play well without it.

@allmyownbattles
22-10-2013, 23:30
Do I read you right that you're running four shamen without a herdstone, currently? I'd say that such a list is begging for a herdstone to make it really effective, but there are other (less magic heavy) set-ups that also work.

No. Sorry, I should have been clearly I'm planning on running four shaman when I take the herdstone. Been running two or three up to now.

I appreciate it's possible to win without the herdstone. My question was: have people noticed a difference in the difficulty level with it? I've got high hopes and think I might need reigning in before I find myself on the back foot by turn two, yet again.

My plan is to take it, get a couple of wins under my belt and then begin to drop it in favour of more mobile builds.

popisdead
23-10-2013, 20:12
If you have a good list without the Shard, and are a good general, no it will not make the game harder. It makes you less static and frees up the table to not use it.

Malagor
23-10-2013, 20:36
And if anything Beastmen should always mobile.

@allmyownbattles
23-10-2013, 21:49
Yeah, I've thought about this. To use the herdstone effectively I've got to position the units containing the shaman in a specific way. I can't put them all in a bunker as one is my general and needs stay up with the army, and another has the Crown of Command on. I really don't want to end up having to shuffle an inch here, and an inch there with beastmen because, for me, they should be charging forward recklessly. As I said I'll play a few times with the herdstone and see if it feels too restrictive.

popisdead
24-10-2013, 22:17
Just play lots. Nothing beats experience first hand.

Malagor
26-10-2013, 10:20
I tried the herdstone for the first time the other day. I had Slugtongue dancing around it through the whole game, generating a dice for my lvl4 shaman who was the mobile one.
I had hoped Slug would get some nice long-range spells but he got Bray-scream and Savage Dominion so he was stuck on dancing duty.

popisdead
28-10-2013, 14:23
And that is why people who call Slugtongue broken or cheesy are idiots. His lore restriction nullifies his effect for the game.

Sexiest_hero
28-10-2013, 17:53
You didn't like savage domination? Can't he get death or shadow as well?

thesoundofmusica
28-10-2013, 19:15
You didn't like savage domination? Can't he get death or shadow as well?

Death or wild only.

Malagor
28-10-2013, 23:42
You didn't like savage domination?
Savage dominion is quite terrible especially not on a 2 wound character.
The monsters we can get suck, they really do. They tend to take wounds like crazy which means even a great bray shaman won't survive that long.
It's a excellent spell if you want to kill off your own shaman.
I just used it because of the heck of it. I had already won so there was no harm in it.
And yeah, he IFed it, called a ghorgon, took a wound, failed the regen, died and Ghorgon ran back into the forest so both me and my opponent got a laugh at that.

And that is why people who call Slugtongue broken or cheesy are idiots. His lore restriction nullifies his effect for the game.
He is not that bad tho.
He could be a bit cheaper tho but that aura he has after deployment did help me out a bit(killed 2 tomb king chariots and a few skeletons in 3 of his units).
After that, all he did was serve as a free power dice due to him being near the herdstone and he took a full round of TK shooting and doing his regen save like a boss(out of like 30 arrows, only 1 wound failed it's regen).
If Slugtongue had been able to take Lore of Beast as well then he would have been more useful tho, no doubt about it and might even been worth the points.

popisdead
29-10-2013, 00:44
Savage Dominion on Slugtogue would be the best outcome from a set up of him around a Herdatone. Just getting something big and scary would make his use continued through the game.

If he could take Shadow I would capitulate he is broken. But then I never shy away from AOE Soulblight or a Doom and Darkness.

@allmyownbattles
29-10-2013, 01:06
Just played my first two herdstone battles. I won, twice! The first was a very narrow win but the second I tabled the Orcs and only gave away around 450 points. Magic was effective but not devastating. I'm thinking I might ditch the herdstone and the two level ones next time and see if I can still cast enough. Very pleased today though. At least I didn't glue all those gor together for nothing.

N1AK
29-10-2013, 09:38
So my question is: are beastmen that much better with the herdstone spam?

One of our club players is in the top couple of tournament Beastmen generals in the UK and he's stopped running the herdstone in most lists now. The herdstone is good but you need to build around it, you can build other effective (though still Beastmen...) lists without it that seem to do as well or better in the current UK scene.