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boli
19-10-2013, 21:49
Is there any rule to shoot.. Not into combat but outside combat but with the knowledge you'll hit something in combat? E.g. shoot a cannon marking a spot 10" before a hydra engaged in combat.

Technically you are not firing unto combat but you'll hit things which are? How is thus resolved?

MOMUS
19-10-2013, 22:44
So glad you didn't use the old 'I wanna shoot my salamanders into combat' example :yes:

You cant shoot into combat. Full stop.

Rulebook page 112 note you are not allowed to make a cannon shot in such a way that it has a chance of hitting a friendly unit or an enemy unit that is engaged in close combat.


Pretty cut and dry to me.

theunwantedbeing
19-10-2013, 22:55
If something is allowed to shoot into combat, it'll say so in its rules.

boli
19-10-2013, 23:02
Well cannon shot is easy but what about scattering shots e.g. rock thrower?

MOMUS
19-10-2013, 23:06
Well cannon shot is easy but what about scattering shots e.g. rock thrower?


Read the rulebook :yes:

boli
19-10-2013, 23:36
By yes you mean shots are allowed to scatter or that all shows have to be fired at least "10" " away?

FatTrucker
20-10-2013, 08:52
You can't target a unit in CC, so a cannon shot fired directly at something that has a CC behind it that may get hit cannot be made. Basically 20" past the initial nominated point on the board. So you can still fire but you have to shorten your range, aim further away and roll higher on the artillery dice to hit your target without being able to bounce through to the CC beyond.

Scatter is different as scatter doesn't have a target. You can target a unit and then have a shot scatter into CC.

A fire thrower can be fired so long as no friendly models are under the template before the artillery dice is rolled (Skaven FAQ)

furrie
21-10-2013, 07:17
You can't target a unit in CC, so a cannon shot fired directly at something that has a CC behind it that may get hit cannot be made. Basically 20" past the initial nominated point on the board. So you can still fire but you have to shorten your range, aim further away and roll higher on the artillery dice to hit your target without being able to bounce through to the CC beyond.

Scatter is different as scatter doesn't have a target. You can target a unit and then have a shot scatter into CC.

A fire thrower can be fired so long as no friendly models are under the template before the artillery dice is rolled (Skaven FAQ)

Does it count for all armies or only skaven, seeing as it is in the skaven book and skaven don't realy care if there own units die.

boli
21-10-2013, 10:32
I was more interested in the rock-thrower angle.

When you end up with really complex (large) combats and you aim the template so it will miss the combat but it will have a good chance of scattering in. e.g. placing it next to (but not touching) a large combat

so you are not shooting into combat... you are missing and hitting units in combat.

theunwantedbeing
21-10-2013, 10:42
Does it count for all armies or only skaven, seeing as it is in the skaven book and skaven don't realy care if there own units die.

The rule is specific to the warpfire thrower.
And it doesn't specify whether you can shoot into combat, only that the template is allowed to hit friendly troops.


I was more interested in the rock-thrower angle.
This is covered in the basic rules.
You're not allowed to place the template where it would cover friendlies, or enemies in combat.
It can of course scatter into combat or onto friendly troops afterwards.

Gillburg
21-10-2013, 11:46
Play Skaven, Issue solved :D

Imperator64
21-10-2013, 12:11
[QUOTE=Gillburg;6958883]Play Skaven, Issue solved :D[/QUOTE
so msgr issues are when you play skaven.

FatTrucker
21-10-2013, 13:40
Its a bit of an odd ruling as it runs directly contrary to the rule for cannons but is resolved in the same way. So I can shoot my warpfire thrower toward a combat so long as the initial template doesn't touch it but I can't do the same thing with a cannon.

Re shooting into CC, Skaven are only normally permitted to do that when the combat only involves slaves. Globadiers have a special rule that exempts them but otherwise Skaven have the same restrictions as anyone else, so the ruling for their flame cannon should be the same for anyone else IMO.

As far as shooting a stone thrower or similar as close as possible to a CC hoping it will scatter into it, I would call that bad sportsmanship and against the spirit of the rules. Technically you're satisfying RAW, but a Stonethrower shot should be targeting a unit, not fired at the ground an inch away from a CC hoping it scatters into it. The rule is meant to represent an army refusing to fire on its own troops.

bigbiggles
25-10-2013, 19:24
I thought that in 8th a stone shot had to be placed on a unit or model. I never liked doing it, but that's how I've played

theunwantedbeing
25-10-2013, 19:28
I thought that in 8th a stone shot had to be placed on a unit or model. I never liked doing it, but that's how I've played

....nobody in your group owns a rulebook I take it?

The stone thrower rules are perfectly clear.

Loriel
27-10-2013, 06:46
We have made a house rule for stone throwers indirect hit that you have to have theoretical chance of hitting some legal target. This way that "accidentally hit" could be satisfied. if there is no legal target that they could ever hit I hardly think it is accidently hitting unit in CC. Well as RAW you can target ground and... just hit it and ground could be considered "legal" target, hence the house rule ;)