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alaztech
21-10-2013, 12:39
My apologies if this has been discussed before. I did a quick search on the forum for a related thread and could find the answer to my question.

I haven't used chariots much in the past and I came up against this question. When a chariot charges a warmachine, do you resolve the impact hits against the warmachine's toughness or the crews toughness?

I know the following
1) impact hits are resolved at the start of the close combat phase.
2) impact hits are distributed as shooting.
3) close combat attacks resolve against the crew's toughness
4) shooting attacks resolve against the warmachine's toughness.
5) pgs 42 in the BRB refers to "Resolving Unusual Attacks" including "...things like the Impact Hits by a charging chariot."
6) pg 71 under the section "Resolving Impact Hits" it says "the hits are distributed exactly as if they were s hooting attacks (see page 42...) and later in that same section, "Finally, Impact hits are close combat attacks (albeit of an unusual type)

Therefore since impact hits are distributed as shooting would we use the warmachine's toughness, or since impact hits are resolved during close combat would we use the crew's toughness?

hamsterwheel
21-10-2013, 12:42
"Finally, Impact hits are close combat attacks (albeit of an unusual type)"

This answers your question.

sorberec
21-10-2013, 12:55
Therefore since impact hits are distributed as shooting would we use the warmachine's toughness, or since impact hits are resolved during close combat would we use the crew's toughness?

Just because something is "distributed as shooting" does not make it a shooting attack. All it means is you use the same method for allocating the hits as you would if it were a shooting attack.

alaztech
21-10-2013, 13:40
Thanks for the quick reply.

I want to make sure I'm being fair to both sides of this argument. It clearly states on pg 42 under the “Resolving Unusual Attacks” that “Such hits are resolved using steps 4, 5 an 6 of the rules for shooting attacks” , so wouldn’t the impact hits be resolved as shooting, and therefore use the warmachine’s toughness?

Does anyone play impact hits against warmachines using the toughness of the warmachine?

thanks

FatTrucker
21-10-2013, 13:57
Firstly it doesn't say are resolved as shooting attacks, it says to resolve impact hits they are distributed as shooting attacks but they are close combat attacks - Important distinction.
It clearly states that you distribute using rules for shooting but resolve using the rules for CC

Impact hits are a close combat attack, its specified in the BRB, and so they are resolved against the crews T as per the BRB entry for close combat attacks on war machines.

The method for randomising/distributing wounds to a unit from impact hits is resolved using the same rules for randomising/distributing wounds from shooting.
Its purely a mechanic to show how to resolve non specific hits without having to re-write the same rule under a different heading for every different type of situation.

When being shot at a crew are deemed to hide behind/under their warmachine hence using its T.
When being charged a crew are deemed to form up between the machine and charger to receive the charge.
A charging chariot is not a ranged attack.

In a future rulebook it would be much better if they had a section for 'randomising hits' and simply alluded to that rather than writing the rule for shooting and then referring any similar rules to the shooting section.

Although it would be nice to be able to use the Stormbanner to stop chariots from charging and any items that protect against shooting to provide a ward save against its impact hits.

alaztech
21-10-2013, 15:21
Thanks all. I'll forward these replies on to the person with whom I'm having the rules debate. It got quite passionate. I finally gave up and let him keep the WM's toughness. I eventually wiped the WM out with my Charioteers and gorebeast. I’m glad I seem to be interpreting this along with the opinions shared here. I was getting a little cranky by that time and thought I must be looking at it wrong since he was so passionate about his argument. He said that using the WM's toughness VS impact hits has been the way he always played and has never seen it any other way. I was a bit confused.

I'll keep an eye out on this post to see if there are any opposite views.

dalezzz
22-10-2013, 15:52
Unless he joins in I don't think there will be ;)

alaztech
22-10-2013, 18:34
If he joins in he may be mad. I've been trashing him a bit. Sorry about that.