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thrawn
21-10-2013, 23:29
as the title says, which is DA BEST!!

yes this is a very broad question, some people may prefer to answer this as their "favourite" with the best art, best stories, etc. others may wish to answer it as the strongest army. whatever you prefer, let's get an idea of what we the GW consumer likes, so that GW can continue to prduce it.

SteveW
21-10-2013, 23:32
The "best" army is the first army made for 8th, the Bretonians. Still some of the best magic defense in the game MR damsels and prophetesses and the silvered mirror, an army wide ward save, and some of the best characters in warhammer they are the best army.


Now only if I could win more than half my games with them...lol

Lordy-UK
21-10-2013, 23:44
Depends on how you define "best", in a power sense it has to be WoC and Daemons shortly behind them.

However if by best you mean loads of options, good lore, good balance, items, units then it has to be vampires, infact i would say it's the only good 8th book that they have written so far, the orc and goblin book turned out to be a good book too, shame about the awful items though.

Moss
22-10-2013, 00:01
I define "best" as the army with the highest count of awesome mustaches.

Vote: The Empire

dooms33ker
22-10-2013, 00:04
Wouldn't it have been better to title the poll "your favorite Army book," rather than the best? I think we've established which is the strongest already, so the poll as is seems to be a little ambiguous.

boli
22-10-2013, 00:32
Ignoring the banner I was chuffed to bits with high elves so many options. I don't think I've played the same or even similar list from it yet.

Rudra34
22-10-2013, 00:54
I define "best" as the army with the highest count of awesome mustaches.

Vote: The Empire

This is a man who has life figured out.

I voted Empire because of my all out love for the versatility offered by the book.

Voodoo1
22-10-2013, 01:35
I voted Vampires!

I think they have some of the best looking miniatures of all 8th edition books. lots of ways to build an army list. And some cool themes. If one of my friends were not already collecting them, I for sure would.

Minty
22-10-2013, 02:24
On the rare chances I've had to fight them, I've never had an un-fun game against Orcs & goblins. Nor have I ever felt entirely overwhelmed or unchallenged.

The Banner of the Cheese Dragon aside I've also had a lot of fun facing the New High Elves.


As a player, I cannot in good conscience vote for Vampires as the internal ballance is ludicrously wonky. Terrorgeists are flat out better than any other Rare choice. The Vampiric Powers list might as well only have two entries on it (you know which two). Skeletons don't have a real job in the book. Crypt Horrors might as well have the special rule 'Buy this kit now'.

It's not a bad book, and it seems very fair in terms of external balance, but sometimes it feels so very unbalanced within.

A million options and when I pick options A, B & C the book leans over my shoulder, reads my list and says "No, you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to choose X,Y & Z."

Lordy-UK
22-10-2013, 03:26
Lol minty you need to re-check the vamp book cos dayum lol.

Played Vamps solid now for 10 months, hardly ever use Terrorgheist but they are good, but then so are Hexwraiths (unless you draw daemons)

Skeletons are as good as any other core choice in the book, love 2 solid blocks.

As for Vampiric abilities, i am asuming you mean quickblood and red fury, while those are fantastic, dreadknight is amazing on a hero vamp, beguile, summon creatures, fear incarnate and dark majesty are also fantastic.

Honestly it's probably the best book GW have ever written, so well done i just had to start an army for it.

Kakapo42
22-10-2013, 03:44
Wood Elves. Hands down. AWESOME models, fantastic background, a magic armoury that hasn't been gutted yet, and packed full of character.

Zoolander
22-10-2013, 05:36
Threads like this are a waste of space and do very little to answer the question.

Lord Dan
22-10-2013, 07:16
I hate threads like this.

...I can never resist them, even when they pop up for the 100th time.

My vote is still Vampires, as they're the only book so far which is so well-balanced that it's actually more difficult to make a bad list than it is to make a solid one. There aren't any redundant or obviously-underpowered units (special characters like Krell aside), and it rivals Skaven in its capacity to create a themed list.

Also, Zombies.

cptcosmic
22-10-2013, 07:35
best at what? raw strength? proper answer is DoC and WoC, all it takes to find it out is a short look at tournament results :)

Romark
22-10-2013, 07:41
Power, WOC. Fluff, Dark Elves. Balance, Vampires.




And as Moss mentioned, mustaches, Empire. So, you know, Empire win morally.

Ero-Senin
22-10-2013, 08:37
Empire also have the best pyjamas. They love them so much they wear them into battle!

stortotta
22-10-2013, 08:55
I define "best" as the army with the highest count of awesome mustaches.

Vote: The Empire

So, you ought to have voted Dwarfs? :p

dalezzz
22-10-2013, 09:26
No he's talking Freddie mercury style! Dwarves always sport a beard along with their mustaches, so don't count :)

BattleofLund
22-10-2013, 09:55
Out of loyalty I voted WoC. But really, so many are good in terms of choice and playability.

I don't think Freddie would have gone for Empire, all things considered.

Urgat
22-10-2013, 09:58
But greenskins can steal moustaches (look at Skarsnik :p), so obviously greenskins are the best. Besides, this time around, our book is seriously good. A few annoying things (savage orcs too good, stuff like that), but nonetheless, it's the best time ever for being an O&G player :)

Althwen
22-10-2013, 10:12
I'm a WoC player myself (also Wood Elves and Tomb Kings) and I do believe that WoC is one of the most powerful armies, if not the most powerful.

For best army, however, I voted VC.
The VC armybook offers a huge variety of viable ways to play the army.
Whether you want a mass of shambling bodies and other undead creatures, or a fast, hardhitting elite army that will even give WoC a run for their money, or something in between? VC's your best bet. Not to mention the great variety of troop choices at your disposal. Is there any other army that includes as many different species into one army?
They have some weaknesses, no army is without those, but with being able to create so many different army builds that can all operate at a competitive level, I think the VC is one of GW's finest creations.

m1acca1551
22-10-2013, 10:42
Had to go with vamps, just a brilliant book full of awesome units that all play a great role, sure there are some cheesey units but they aren't cheesey survivable like say woc DP. They are just awesome oh and having some of the best miniatures in GW history helps too

Aluinn
22-10-2013, 11:13
I find VC internal balance to be fine. The points about Vampiric Powers not being balanced are somewhat legit, although at least one of the "mandatory" ones is also very expensive, so in a sense they are balanced taking points cost into account. They also seem designed with the distinction between Lord and Hero Vamps in mind, so e.g. Red Fury might be a no-brainer for a Lord, but a Hero might want to think about taking two of the 25-point-or-less options (-1 Ld and Terror for example).

Other than that I think their units are pretty well balanced with the exception of the Terrorgheist being pretty blatantly the best Rare as mentioned. However, as Rares are, well, rare, imbalance in that section doesn't affect an army quite as heavily as in others.

Re. Crypt Horrors, math out their performance vs. equal points of Grave Guard, and account for the fact that Grave Guard are much easier to raise (and have, you know, that banner, which benefits Wight Kings joining them, too) and I think it's apparent that they're not really a big problem. Also there are a bunch of other Specials that, while not fighty, are still absolutely worth taking for their support value, e.g. Spirit Hosts and (I might be in the minority on this, but whatevah) Corpse Carts. Black Knights are solid in conventional use, too, and the Black Knight bus is considered something of a power build, so there's more competition.

Having used Skeletons as Core I think they're quite fine given their cost relative to the other options. I mean, a Skeleton sucks, undoubtedly, but 50 of them can be had for the price of 25 Ghouls and I'm not entirely sure that the 50-Skeleton unit is out-and-out the weaker--with hw/s they're not strictly any more fragile than Ghouls (it depends on what they're fighting, but on average they're about as tough), and unlike Zombies they can actually kill things either by plain ol' grinding out/weight of attacks (against comparable S/T3 Core) or by being buffed. They also can take a magic standard and have a very good unique one that one might very well want to exploit. I find them a good bridge between Ghouls and Zombies, personally.

It would be appropriate to say that VC Core is generally underwhelming on its own at least, but it's kind of always been that way and its role is just to provide the quantity of wounds necessary for the army to have some substance and staying power. 7th Ed. Ghouls were really an aberration and undercosted to the point of being a no-brainer, but that was appropriately fixed. (No bad undead puns intended in the preceding sentences.) The same can be said of a few others armies that are still none the less quite good because they have the support needed, and as an Empire player they come to mind as a perfect example: Even Halberdiers, on their own, kind of suck for what they cost.

EDIT: As a side note it's hard for this poll to have much meaning unless you do distinguish between "most powerful", "best art/fluff/models", and "most balanced". I reflexively voted Ogres because I still find them the most competitive. (I know WoC are the new hotness and DE may soon be the newer hotness, but I think once people adjust, Ogres will be left standing above them--har har they're tall get it? But seriously they're just very good at everything whereas WoC can't shoot and DE, though more balanced in that sense, are still Elves and their low S and T can be either actively exploited or just end up being big disadvantages in certain matchups.)

thrawn
22-10-2013, 13:34
best at what? raw strength? proper answer is DoC and WoC, all it takes to find it out is a short look at tournament results :)

Hey guys, i tried to make this clear in the OP, it is an ambiguous question. not based on strength, not based on art, fluff, or mustaches! :) it's just a spur of the moment, i'm putting $50 in your hand and you can only buy one book, which one?! don't think about it, just pick! :)

Shadeseraph
22-10-2013, 16:34
High Elves. Because they are my army, and they have been since 5th ed.

Though I'd be much happier if there were less Banners of the Derpy Dragon and more actual dragons, mind you.

Phazael
22-10-2013, 17:47
Variety and overall internal balance, its a toss up between Orcs and Goblins or Lizardmen. Power wise, Dark Elves and WoC take it.

DaemonReign
22-10-2013, 19:04
Vampires. For a total Review of (1) internal balance (2) external balance and (3) the 'taste and tact' of compromise between standards of orthodoxy (history) and radicalism (the new stuff).
This is not to say that VC is completely without fault; With some new units (Terrorgheist, Crypt Horrors) we see the dawning tendency of pointing new stuff for sales, but it's not as blatant (ugly) as in some later books - the same goes for previously go-to choices being hit a bit too hard (Ghouls) but again; nothing like the joke pulled on certain other books.
External balance and general elegance of design (except certain mechanics for the Mortiis Engine) are relatively good compared to other 8th Ed books.
The general 'feel' of the update is one of respect and sincerity.
Definately my vote for 'best book of 8th' all things concidered.

Most competative?
Remains to be seen but it's a race between DE, HE and WoC.
And speaking of Matt Ward reference my sig for the verdict on Daemons.. ;)

Craze_b0i
22-10-2013, 22:43
Hey guys, i tried to make this clear in the OP, it is an ambiguous question. not based on strength, not based on art, fluff, or mustaches! :) it's just a spur of the moment, i'm putting $50 in your hand and you can only buy one book, which one?! don't think about it, just pick! :)

In that case it's a rather spurious poll. If you allow people to define 'best' as the strongest army on the table then how is that telling GW what the customer wants to see inside the book?

SteveW
22-10-2013, 23:32
Hey guys, i tried to make this clear in the OP, it is an ambiguous question. not based on strength, not based on art, fluff, or mustaches! :) it's just a spur of the moment, i'm putting $50 in your hand and you can only buy one book, which one?! don't think about it, just pick! :)
So.. best, but not best at anything? So... Empire?

Phazael
23-10-2013, 00:43
Then DE are probably the best book, with Ogres second. Both armies have a fun visually compelling style and lots of variety. Plus, the fluff rapage that Ward normally engages in was kept to a minimum in the new DE book and most of the old lore is tucked in there in various places. The art style, model presentation, rules, and fluff are all there in the DE book and it supports a bajillion builds without reliance on any special characters to achieve them (which is where the HE and O&G books falter a bit). It also did not invalidate prior collections with its power changes (aside from the hydra nerfs) in a manner that other books have done, like VC with the ghoul nerf or WoC with the chosen and marauder nerfs. It is probably the most complete effort in a fantasy book since the last Brett book hit the shelves.

Payomeke
23-10-2013, 10:02
I think, in my opinion, some people confuse "good book" with "balanced book". If we say that WC is the strongest 8th by far (lot of people think that) i can tell you is the worst book because break the game balance.

We are looking here for a balanced game, no "make the best army for winning always...". For that my vote is for Empire, they have different good builds and is balanced because is not autowin . Empire uses EVERYTHING in its book (except mortars and flagellants in this edition) for making good and competitive builds.

Fear Ghoul
23-10-2013, 12:11
Vampire Counts seem to me to have the best selection of external and internal balance across all the 8th edition books. It's not without faults, but it's the best we've had in this edition.

Spiney Norman
24-10-2013, 22:22
Best army book... I've got to say Lizardmen, while they're clearly not the most powerful, they have the most balanced list, everything except the troglodon is usable and nothing is really over-powered. Virtually all the other books in 8E rely on one or two OP units to be competitive, and as a result you can pretty much guess almost exactly what would be in a competitively built WoC, Empire, VC, High Elf, Dark Elf etc army, whereas Lizards have a lot of viable builds despite having fewer unit choices than a lot of other books, putting them upper mid-tier in terms of power pretty much whatever you field.

Not only did they do a good job of the list balance, the new artwork for this edition is also really good, they finally got rid of the hideous 5th ed art that has been hanging around since (it seems) the dawn of time and the background remained largely faithful to the established canon with no bizarre, or nonsensical additions. They also did a great job of magic item design, which is an area a lot of 8E books fall down on. There is probably only one (maybe two) no-way choices (the skaven pelt banner, and possibly the blade of realities), and a good number of really strong items (quango egg, piranha blade, cube) as well.

outbreak
25-10-2013, 03:35
toss up between empire, lizardmen, orcs and goblins and vampire counts. All well balanced books in my opinion with a variety of options. High elves would be in there too except for the banner of the world dragon and the frost phoenix being a bit over the top. For me a good book has multiple options that are all useful in each slot. While the armies I've listed do have strong options (think savage orcs over a core of orc big un's) the lesser options are still generally powerful enough to still make a decent fun list with without being overly gimped imo and that's the sign of a good book to me

DarKolia
25-10-2013, 10:02
Hi

I voted High elves because this is the only book I've read in full: the fluff is rather good which is rare in WFB (you know cold ones in DE ice desert... cold blooded animals in the arctic... Pfff... most of the time I just skip WFB fluff because it is soo bad! but HE book was good ... (except the part which look for an excuse for HE to battle every other species...or rather army book, which is rather hard when you live on a island... failed invasion of ulthuan by skaven was crappy...)
They may lose to WoC thought...

MOMUS
25-10-2013, 10:31
I think the Orc and goblin list is great :yes:
Best 8th book hands down, such a variety of interesting, fun and innovative choices. Always fun to play against and a really characterful army on the table top.


Best army book... I've got to say Lizardmen, while they're clearly not the most powerful, they have the most balanced list, everything except the troglodon is usable and nothing is really over-powered. Virtually all the other books in 8E rely on one or two OP units to be competitive, and as a result you can pretty much guess almost exactly what would be in a competitively built WoC, Empire, VC, High Elf, Dark Elf etc army, whereas Lizards have a lot of viable builds despite having fewer unit choices than a lot of other books, putting them upper mid-tier in terms of power pretty much whatever you field.

Not only did they do a good job of the list balance, the new artwork for this edition is also really good, they finally got rid of the hideous 5th ed art that has been hanging around since (it seems) the dawn of time and the background remained largely faithful to the established canon with no bizarre, or nonsensical additions. They also did a great job of magic item design, which is an area a lot of 8E books fall down on. There is probably only one (maybe two) no-way choices (the skaven pelt banner, and possibly the blade of realities), and a good number of really strong items (quango egg, piranha blade, cube) as well.


Wah? :wtf:
Are we reading the same book?
I love my lizards, but the book is as bland as beige plasterboard. Barely anything has changed since the last book. The most viable and interesting build for lizzies has been ruined thanks to the -1Ld on skinks, leaving little choice in builds. Internal balance? Bastilidon? Kroxigor? skink chief? Skox units? The army who should be fielding the most big monsters will be fielding the least and even then its only going to be the same old steg they've had since they first came out.
Some of the artwork is pretty appalling with some bad photoshop-esque pictures of the new units. I like the way you say 'remained faithful' rather than 'reprint word for word the last book'.
The magic item list is laughable. Sorry, it just is.

Captain Collius
25-10-2013, 12:27
Wah? :wtf:
Are we reading the same book?
I love my lizards, but the book is as bland as beige plasterboard. Barely anything has changed since the last book. The most viable and interesting build for lizzies has been ruined thanks to the -1Ld on skinks, leaving little choice in builds. Internal balance? Bastilidon? Kroxigor? skink chief? Skox units? The army who should be fielding the most big monsters will be fielding the least and even then its only going to be the same old steg they've had since they first came out.
Some of the artwork is pretty appalling with some bad photoshop-esque pictures of the new units. I like the way you say 'remained faithful' rather than 'reprint word for word the last book'.
The magic item list is laughable. Sorry, it just is.

And this is the dichotomy of the Lizards book. Its choices are so very similar to the last book some say it feels boring. Personally I love the balance of the book. I find it to be great fun to play as the Super Slann is now resting on his laurels.

the saurus build just feel more playable now probably because skink cloud is weaker.

Gustav Kohn
25-10-2013, 15:43
Where was the option for Wood Elves? Just saying.

KUMA
25-10-2013, 17:00
or Chaos dorfs?!

Belakor
25-10-2013, 18:16
Ogres because I play them.

SteveW
25-10-2013, 22:11
or Chaos dorfs?!
Chaos Dorfs gone golfing?

Coldhatred
26-10-2013, 04:21
Ouch, Beastmen not even listed. Yeah. . . :(

Lord Dan
26-10-2013, 05:05
Ouch, Beastmen not even listed. Yeah. . . :(
The title is misleading. The question is: "Which book released in 8th edition is best?" not "Which army is best under 8th edition?" For that reason Beastmen, which still has a 7th edition book, has been left out.

DaemonReign
26-10-2013, 08:49
Thread's also been 'polluted' by many votes for most competative 8th book (WoC 1st ranking) where-as the second and third places (VC and OnG) are more reasonable results - those two are really good Army Books.

valle
26-10-2013, 10:31
Well, you wouldnt be suprised that I voted for vamps Id guess. But this is the best vamps book I have ever seen from GW with only bloodlines and a few selections short of it being perfect. Zombies still arent fixed with the current rules for unstable, but 9th might fix that? and corpse cart and black coach are never taken except for people going all out fluffy or experimental. The first two are easy fixed by giving zombies regen 6+ and making corpse cart a unit upgrade for them, but thats for another thread... Other than that, its well balance in every way and I love it. As for the strongest 8th book, I would have to go for demons. As a vamp player I have never had trouble with WoC anyway, but demons seems a tiny bit broken to me.

Craze_b0i
26-10-2013, 18:44
The title is misleading. The question is: "Which book released in 8th edition is best?" not "Which army is best under 8th edition?" For that reason Beastmen, which still has a 7th edition book, has been left out.

And also due to an in-built restriction in the warseer forum itself you can only put 10 options per poll.

TheDungen
26-10-2013, 19:57
I don't get why this is constantly being discussed. You know roughly which armies are more powerful than others why is it so interesting which is the most powerful?

Spiney Norman
26-10-2013, 21:36
Where was the option for Wood Elves? Just saying.

I would imagine that is because wood elves are not an 8th edition book. They are in fact a 6th edition book, as are dwarfs and Bretonnians who are also not listed.



I think the Orc and goblin list is great :yes:
Best 8th book hands down, such a variety of interesting, fun and innovative choices. Always fun to play against and a really characterful army on the table top.




Wah? :wtf:
Are we reading the same book?
I love my lizards, but the book is as bland as beige plasterboard. Barely anything has changed since the last book. The most viable and interesting build for lizzies has been ruined thanks to the -1Ld on skinks, leaving little choice in builds. Internal balance? Bastilidon? Kroxigor? skink chief? Skox units? The army who should be fielding the most big monsters will be fielding the least and even then its only going to be the same old steg they've had since they first came out.
Some of the artwork is pretty appalling with some bad photoshop-esque pictures of the new units. I like the way you say 'remained faithful' rather than 'reprint word for word the last book'.
The magic item list is laughable. Sorry, it just is.

I guess artwork and fluff is subject to opinion, I also find it interesting that you're slating the Lizardmen magic item list whilst citing your favourite book as the O&G one which has categorically the worst MI list of any book so far. There is only one item in the O&G list that is worth taking at all...

What you call 'bland' I would see as a positive development of an already well rounded army. The Lizardmen list was great already, what they did was keep it largely the same, but tone down the more overpowered parts (skink Skirmishers, the Slann) while slightly powering up the weaker elements from last edition (Saurus, razordons, Kroxigor, stegadons). It was more of a fine-tuning than a reboot, which is good because total reboot usually end up wildly unbalanced.

The bearded one
26-10-2013, 23:15
What you call 'bland' I would see as a positive development of an already well rounded army. The Lizardmen list was great already, what they did was keep it largely the same, but tone down the more overpowered parts (skink Skirmishers, the Slann) while slightly powering up the weaker elements from last edition (Saurus, razordons, Kroxigor, stegadons). It was more of a fine-tuning than a reboot, which is good because total reboot usually end up wildly unbalanced.

The new monsters are pretty poor though, as are razordons. Cold one cavalry still aren't very impressive for the high cost either. They did a pretty good job shuffeling around with the other elements I suppose, and jungle swarms seem actually worth taking now, but there are still nonsensical elements. Skink chiefs are still too expensive. They cost more than a goblin chief! The magic items and slann disciplines aren't too shabby. The sacred stegadon helm is awesome, the piranha blade alright, the cube of darkness still good, swifstride banner and frenzy&skaven-hate banner pretty decent, the egg of the guanqo a 50/50 chance for great damage.

MOMUS
26-10-2013, 23:29
I guess artwork and fluff is subject to opinion, I also find it interesting that you're slating the Lizardmen magic item list whilst citing your favourite book as the O&G one which has categorically the worst MI list of any book so far. There is only one item in the O&G list that is worth taking at all...

What you call 'bland' I would see as a positive development of an already well rounded army. The Lizardmen list was great already, what they did was keep it largely the same, but tone down the more overpowered parts (skink Skirmishers, the Slann) while slightly powering up the weaker elements from last edition (Saurus, razordons, Kroxigor, stegadons). It was more of a fine-tuning than a reboot, which is good because total reboot usually end up wildly unbalanced.


Regarding artwork its actually just the new choices (bastalidon,trog,rippers) artwork is so jarring, esp when compered to new artwork of existing units. Take a look at page 42 compared to page 43! What were they thinking?
Yea but im citing the O&G book for its variety of choices and interesting units. I slate the lizzie magic items cuz they used to have some fantastic ones! I would have rather they just kept 12 the same rather than have 10 'new' ones that are useless.
You enjoy a book that is largely the same?
3 new units:
Trog, very lacklustre stats and rules (such a shame as the model is amazing)
rippers, models are a bit off and it just seems that they just threw a load of special rules at terradons, I don't think they really fulfil a role that lizardmen need, frenzy on Ld5?!
Bastiladon, particular annoyance for this model as its just a engine of the gods in disguise and to make it more noteworthy they nerfed the engine rules! Probably the most disappointing monster stat line in wfb and a list of not thought through special rules.

Completely made the skrox unit redundant. ~shakes fist~

Spiney Norman
27-10-2013, 08:07
Regarding artwork its actually just the new choices (bastalidon,trog,rippers) artwork is so jarring, esp when compered to new artwork of existing units. Take a look at page 42 compared to page 43! What were they thinking?
Yea but im citing the O&G book for its variety of choices and interesting units. I slate the lizzie magic items cuz they used to have some fantastic ones! I would have rather they just kept 12 the same rather than have 10 'new' ones that are useless.
You enjoy a book that is largely the same?
3 new units:
Trog, very lacklustre stats and rules (such a shame as the model is amazing)
rippers, models are a bit off and it just seems that they just threw a load of special rules at terradons, I don't think they really fulfil a role that lizardmen need, frenzy on Ld5?!
Bastiladon, particular annoyance for this model as its just a engine of the gods in disguise and to make it more noteworthy they nerfed the engine rules! Probably the most disappointing monster stat line in wfb and a list of not thought through special rules.

Completely made the skrox unit redundant. ~shakes fist~

Trog- agreed, they're the ed-headed step child of the book

Ripperdactyls - they are terradons that swap out their rocks for a reasonable close combat ability, which I love, sure frenzy takes some working around (mine generally spend several turns staring off table edges if I don't want them to charge, but being fast cav means you can do that). Terradons constantly frustrate me because once their rocks are down they're basically useless, Ive had games where my terries have been beaten and chased off by a warmachine crew, that doesn't happen to rippers.
Bastiladon - era, what were you expecting for 150pts, they get a better bound spell than the Engine, and a static buff that doubles your Saurus' chance of surviving an initiative apocalypse, and might even give your temple guard the chance to strike at the same time as your opponent in combat.

And by 'skrox', if you're referring to the skink cohort unit, they are extremely useful as 50pt redirectors, its just that adding Kroxigor to them is no longer an optimal build.

MOMUS
27-10-2013, 10:11
Rippers-several turns staring off the board :s sounds like a waste to me. My terradons are useful every turn, drop rocks, killing chaff, fast cav, baiting frenzy or chariots through woods, double fleeing (but risky now granted) killing warmachines and in my last game thanks to their movement I manger to get them in a place where fleeing troops would bounce over them leaving them to charge them off the board.
I like the idea of rippers I just don't think they work.

Bastiladon, exactly my point, better bound spell. Why not give it it's own design and rules rather than make it a lame version on the engine, it's like they couldn't think of another concept for it. Lazy design.

No lol cohort units are just as good as they ever were, I used to run skink cloud list with several, add a msc for flexibility and *1 to rally point denial.
Skrox units is what people call the skink/krox mixed unit, which is a now useless.

Aluinn
28-10-2013, 05:09
Well, you wouldnt be suprised that I voted for vamps Id guess. But this is the best vamps book I have ever seen from GW with only bloodlines and a few selections short of it being perfect. Zombies still arent fixed with the current rules for unstable, but 9th might fix that? and corpse cart and black coach are never taken except for people going all out fluffy or experimental. The first two are easy fixed by giving zombies regen 6+ and making corpse cart a unit upgrade for them, but thats for another thread... Other than that, its well balance in every way and I love it. As for the strongest 8th book, I would have to go for demons. As a vamp player I have never had trouble with WoC anyway, but demons seems a tiny bit broken to me.

Okay, off-topic but I have to defend the Corpse Cart here: It's cheap, as resistant to cannons as you could hope for at that price, and provides a bubble buff that doesn't require you to do anything that you probably didn't already intend to do (buff your units with other spells) and makes up for one of the major weaknesses of Undead (well, non-Vampire) stats.

Its only major problem is that it's too slow to keep up with marching infantry in the long term. However, if you use Vanhel's on early turns--IMO a good idea regardless of your composition--and start it right behind a unit, it can usually be kept within range to provide its bonus. In the worst case scenario it just shows up a turn after combat starts (assuming it's alive, but chances of that are pretty decent unless you're playing against Dorfs).

And honestly even if someone's shooting cannons at it, I'm just glad they're not shooting them at more valuable things--it's probably paying for itself by being a (literal, ha! ... but gross) meatshield at that point.

(Also note, as I read it, it will give a unit ASF if within range and a spell is successfully cast even if it later moves out of range, thus e.g. a bubble Vanhel's that you cast with the Cart in range of your unit(s) will result in it/them having ASF and re-rolls to hit even if the Vanhel's movement takes them out of range of one another. And you know, making Undead fight like High Elves is pretty valuable in my book :).)

Yowzo
31-10-2013, 07:29
I guess artwork and fluff is subject to opinion, I also find it interesting that you're slating the Lizardmen magic item list whilst citing your favourite book as the O&G one which has categorically the worst MI list of any book so far. There is only one item in the O&G list that is worth taking at all...

Make that two. The axe of stunty bashin is a nice all around magic weapon.




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Wesser
31-10-2013, 08:19
Okay, off-topic but I have to defend the Corpse Cart here: It's cheap, as resistant to cannons as you could hope for at that price, and provides a bubble buff that doesn't require you to do anything that you probably didn't already intend to do (buff your units with other spells) and makes up for one of the major weaknesses of Undead (well, non-Vampire) stats.

Its only major problem is that it's too slow to keep up with marching infantry in the long term. However, if you use Vanhel's on early turns--IMO a good idea regardless of your composition--and start it right behind a unit, it can usually be kept within range to provide its bonus. In the worst case scenario it just shows up a turn after combat starts (assuming it's alive, but chances of that are pretty decent unless you're playing against Dorfs).

And honestly even if someone's shooting cannons at it, I'm just glad they're not shooting them at more valuable things--it's probably paying for itself by being a (literal, ha! ... but gross) meatshield at that point.

(Also note, as I read it, it will give a unit ASF if within range and a spell is successfully cast even if it later moves out of range, thus e.g. a bubble Vanhel's that you cast with the Cart in range of your unit(s) will result in it/them having ASF and re-rolls to hit even if the Vanhel's movement takes them out of range of one another. And you know, making Undead fight like High Elves is pretty valuable in my book :).)

It's a bit off-topic, but I'm gonna +1 this one.

My gaming group consider the Corpse Cart somewhere between OP and broken......

I think Valle needs to see skeletons with Corpse Cart support overpower and destroy Black Guard :)

Soundwave
31-10-2013, 12:46
I will not vote yet give them all a point,i like all the books and armies so far.I like what g.w have done with expanding options increasing balance in and between the new 8th edd books.
Well yes there are some that trump others but this is good for bitter rivalry and to a degree challengeing and interesting.
You can see how hard line they set out to be in the initial Tomb Kings book(big nerffing),then they kind of strayed a little toward the present,oh yeah its ok just slip this banner in here give these guys this unit of doom e.t.cBut all in all pretty good not as drastic or as overlooked as it has been in the past.
I like the overall picture and rules sets so far.(i know far from perfect,but alot closer to where they were.).

Dooks Dizzo
31-10-2013, 12:55
Sticking with Dark Elves on this one.

Quality of the book for rules, art and backstory beats the pants off many of the others.

Then there are the awesome and plentiful plastic kits.

mypantsarefree3
02-11-2013, 04:27
WoC! Played them back before Chaos was split and still love 'em.


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