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View Full Version : [HH] Going straight from Descent of Angels to Fallen Angels?



jestacardo
28-10-2013, 21:17
Just read Descent of Angels and adored it, but I'm dying to know what happens to Zahariel and Israfael. Is it possible to jump straight to Fallen Angels or would I miss out some important stuff in the intervening books that are important to Fallen Angels?

Mister_Q
28-10-2013, 21:33
Nope, that's what I did and the story flows on just fine.

DarkChaplain
29-10-2013, 06:09
Shouldn't give you any problems at all. There's Call of the Lion in Tales of Heresy, which you might want to read first, as it expands on Astelan, who appears in Fallen Angels (but wasn't part of the original returners to Caliban) and is an older character, central to the plot of Angels of Darkness, but there are some inconsistencies between those and Fallen Angels.

However, you do not need Legion, Battle for the Abyss, Mechanicum or the other Tales of Heresy stories for Fallen Angels. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that it only requires Descent of Angels and the opening trilogy to work - it ends just before Isstvan V. Fulgrim or Flight of the Eisenstein aren't necessary to the plot either, in my opinion.

So skip right ahead.

Perrin
30-10-2013, 01:53
Its fine, the two angels books are kind of a mini-series within the Heresy series. Speaking of which, does anyone know if there is going to be another Angels book that follows on from these two or are they just dropping the storyline? I seem to remember they weren't the most popular novels ever released.

DarkChaplain
30-10-2013, 14:53
It looks like they're going towards another novel in this particular plotline, yes.

To sum up - with plotline spoilers, but I've tried to keep them to a bare minimum and focused on the story connections and some inconsistencies:


Descent of Angels was the start, with the Lion being found and the Legion setting out to the stars

Call of the Lion from Tales of Heresy told a prequel-sequence to Astelan, who appears in Fallen Angels, and Chapter Master Belath, who is implied to be the reason why Astelan was sent back to Caliban.

Fallen Angels told of the Dark Angels Legion trying to slow down Horus on one side and the Caliban exiles and their struggles on their homeworld

Savage Weapons from Age of Darkness had the Dark Angels vs Night Lords in the Thramas Crusade, with a duel between the Lion and Curze.

The Lion from The Primarchs saw the Lion intervene in a battle between Iron Hands and Death Guard after having to deal with warpspawn in his flagship. They try to evade the Night Lords to do this, but end up with a huge prize in the Lion's hands. A plotline from Descent of Angels / Fallen Angels is basically ended, or misdirected, which annoyed a lot of people for the way it was handled (me included).

By The Lion's Command from the Imperial Truth anthology features Corswain and Belath. Apparently the Lion had sent a part of his fleet to engage and slow the Death Guard. The story ends with Corswain telling Belath they need to regain their strength, and increase their numbers - by returning to Caliban.

Grey Angel, the half-length audio drama by John French, sees two Knight Errants visit Caliban to find out about their loyalties. It has inconsistencies, as Luther refers to battles fought alongside other Legions, which conflicts the point where his Angels got sent back to Caliban after their first engagement in Descent of Angels, with many of their brothers never seeing fighting at all. It makes no mention of Luther being aware of Chaos, but a Watcher advises against intervention by the Knight Errants.

Prince of Crows from Shadows of Treachery brings the Lion vs Curze plotline and the Thramas Crusade to an end, and ends with the Lion setting out to Ultramar, answering the call of Guilliman at last, after it had been put off in Savage Weapons and The Lion already.

The Unremembered Empire brings the Lion to Macragge, but it does not set the Lion upon a new task yet - the book ends with everybody still being there.

ChrisMurray
30-10-2013, 16:22
They can be read one after the other with no problems, in fact I would recommend it to most people. If you want all the extra sub-plots and greater depth and history of various characters DarkChaplain has summed it up well. You can even read the two "angel books" together and then read the short stories after if you want.

angelismortis
03-11-2013, 10:31
A question about Grey Angel Who was the Dark Angel that helps Iacton and Loken escape?

DarkChaplain
03-11-2013, 12:15
A question about Grey Angel Who was the Dark Angel that helps Iacton and Loken escape?

No clear answer to that, I'm afraid. Theories, however, have made the rounds.

A candidate is Zahariel, the protagonist from Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels (Caliban-side). He wouldn't have known Iacton, however - then again, Luther knew the Luna Wolves despite having been sent back early, without ever meeting them, or fighting alongside them. The same oversight / retcon may be at work here, and it seems fairly likely. However, Zahariel was unconscious in the tower for a long time, and Luther wasn't quite as pure anymore and definitely not as unaware of Chaos as it appears in Grey Angel.

It could also have been another Dark Angel who was sent back later, like Astelan was. The possibility exists that we have not met the character yet.

From the armor's decoration and his behavior, however, it apparently IS Cypher. Not the last Lord Cypher, however, as, as far as I am aware, the previous Lord Cypher picked between Descent and Fallen Angels, was never of the Legion. He was not replaced by another by the end of Fallen Angels, though, so if this Cypher had taken the place of the Lord by Grey Angel, we cannot know yet, and if so, there would be another gap to fill.

Either way you look at it, the Dark Angels stories are filled to the brim with inconsistencies throughout the series and beyond.

Danjester
04-11-2013, 15:42
Given how Descent of Angels has been largely ignored/retconned, due to being utterly awful IMO, I can allow a little elasticity with the timeline.

angelismortis
04-11-2013, 16:13
I found an interesting thread at B&C on the identity of the mysterious DA in Grey Angel http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/258144-grey-angel/ which confirms DarkChaplain's comment about the identity of the helpful DA. The armor is the giveaway. That just raises some confuses as to continuity because he tells Iacton he's been around a long time, which is not consistent with what we know in Fallen Angels about that character unless this is the predecessor to the character from Fallen Angels.

I expect discontinuity in stories when it is from the perspective of characters; particularly given the large number of characters in the HH series, but it can be a bit frustrating when it is introduced by a presumably omniscient narrator.

DarkChaplain
05-11-2013, 01:32
Given how Descent of Angels has been largely ignored/retconned, due to being utterly awful IMO, I can allow a little elasticity with the timeline.

I actually liked Descent of Angels a lot. The book was sound, just not enough Heresy for the general audience. Still a vital piece to understanding the Dark Angels, and while it has its issues for sure, I never understood the nerdrage against it.