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sysy16
29-10-2013, 20:52
Our campaign had dwarfs up against skaven.


Major rules mess over the storm banner and the howling warpgale spell.

What on earth is the Gyrocopter?

A warmachine or a flyer?

We ruled that the gyrocopter could not fly for the storm banner (reads no flying movement) but it could move for howling warpgale

Warpgale says "no flying creatures"

As the Skaven player had brought a reasonable list with no horrid toys (stormvermin, clanrat list with rat ogres and gutter runners) and the dwarf player was being a major douche with the rules as though it was a competition game , I felt that the spirt of the game really that warpgale should stop the gyropcopter from flying but the rules seem to suggest otherwise.

What we could not understand though, does this mean that spells such as heavens which say war machines can only shoot on a 4+ would effect the gyrocopter too?

What a pain in the neck this whole thing turned out to be - the Dwarf player was really in character, being stubborn as hell....

THe good news is we read the FAQ and seen that the gyrocopter could not fly 20 and shoot which is what he had been doing all game.

But what of howling warpgale? Does this mean that the gyrocopter is immune to the spell?

boli
29-10-2013, 21:01
This came up in one of our games as well. We ruled it could not fly but it could still use its movement value (1?) As the dwarf engineer pushed it on the ground.

The shooting never came up but 4+ to fire seems reasonable.

sysy16
29-10-2013, 21:50
Well for howling warpgale it says flying creatures...

and it says in the dwarf book that it counts as a warmachine when affected by spells...

So the Dwarf player insisted that he could still fly....

And he is probably right.

But just wondered how others found this one.

Blkc57
29-10-2013, 22:54
Warmachine is just a unit type, there is no such classification though as "flying creature" found anywhere in any book and I believe the word is being used in place of "flying model" or "flying unit". Does Howling Warpgale have some rule where it will not effect warmachines specifically? If not it is only reasonable that Howling Warpgale effect a Gyrocopter. At least, to me its reasonable.

furrie
30-10-2013, 07:08
Warmachine is just a unit type, there is no such classification though as "flying creature" found anywhere in any book and I believe the word is being used in place of "flying model" or "flying unit". Does Howling Warpgale have some rule where it will not effect warmachines specifically? If not it is only reasonable that Howling Warpgale effect a Gyrocopter. At least, to me its reasonable.
the gyrocopter isn't even a wm it has the unique type.

theunwantedbeing
30-10-2013, 10:53
The Gyrocopter is a unit with a Unique type.
But it does fly, and it is part creature given it has a dwarf crewing the thing....so it's a flying creature and is affected by the Howling Warpgale spell.

It isn't a war machine though.

sysy16
30-10-2013, 12:45
The problem is that it says treat it as a war machine for spells.....so the dwarf player quite rightly argued that howling gale had no effect...
But the rest of us felt thus wad just wrong from a common sense point of view

theunwantedbeing
30-10-2013, 13:08
The problem is that it says treat it as a war machine for spells.....so the dwarf player quite rightly argued that howling gale had no effect...
But the rest of us felt thus wad just wrong from a common sense point of view

Not quite.
It says that you treat it as a war machine only insofar that they are affected by spells or magical effects that specifically affect war machines....in all other respects it's treated as a flying monster.

So, it's a flying creature as per that rule.
Also, it is affected by spells that affect war machines, but isn't specifically a war machine.

So the dwarf player was wrong about the howling warpgale spell, it does affect it.

FatTrucker
30-10-2013, 18:34
The Stormbanner prevents all flying movement.

A gyrocopter Flies.

It is affected.

Treated as a warmachine for spells just explains how to resolve spell effects against it. The Stormbanner doesn't affect or target the gyrocopter at all it removes the 'Fly' special rule from everything on the table by creating a massive roiling table wide storm.

Its an environmental effect.

Sounds like a case of rulebaggery to me.
Its description is clear. Its effects are clear. Its intention is clear. Opponent uses semantics saying all of that is wrong, because he doesn't want it to apply to him.

Concede, give him the game, refuse to play him in future. Far too many of these players in the game nowadays.

sysy16
30-10-2013, 21:49
The Stormbanner prevents all flying movement.

A gyrocopter Flies.

It is affected.

Treated as a warmachine for spells just explains how to resolve spell effects against it. The Stormbanner doesn't affect or target the gyrocopter at all it removes the 'Fly' special rule from everything on the table by creating a massive roiling table wide storm.

Its an environmental effect.

Sounds like a case of rulebaggery to me.
Its description is clear. Its effects are clear. Its intention is clear. Opponent uses semantics saying all of that is wrong, because he doesn't want it to apply to him.

Concede, give him the game, refuse to play him in future. Far too many of these players in the game nowadays.

Whilst I appreciate the points, the storm banner was not the thing causing the problem but the spell howling warpgale.

Two posters here have given different views on whether it affects the gyrocopter or not.

That being said, I think we are getting somewhere.

If I am reading it correctly then, when spells are cast on it directly - treat it as a warmachine.

In all other respects, treat it as a flying monster. It then reads. So that would sort of suggest to me that it would be affected by howling warpgale in the sense it can't fly...

Does this mean when the storm banner is used....
it also needs a 4+ to shoot as well!?

theunwantedbeing
30-10-2013, 21:59
If I am reading it correctly then, when spells are cast on it directly - treat it as a warmachine.
Close but not quite.
They are affected by spells or magical effects that specifically affect war machines.

They're not treated as war machines for all spells/magical effects, only those that affect war machines.


In all other respects, treat it as a flying monster. It then reads. So that would sort of suggest to me that it would be affected by howling warpgale in the sense it can't fly...
It's treated as a flying monster for the howling warpgale spell, so doesn't get to fly.


Does this mean when the storm banner is used....
it also needs a 4+ to shoot as well!?
Yes, as it fires without using it's ballistic skill.