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InstantKarma
05-11-2013, 17:26
Just a thread for exploring how the youngest race and one of the oldest get along so well (apparently) in the 40k universe.

For some initial disclosure, this discussion originated on another thread;

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?383913-How-to-destroy-amazing-Space-Marines-army-!!&p=6973774#post6973774

As a Tau player and former Eldar player this relationship does bring a smile to my face, thus the idea for the thread.:)

eldaran
05-11-2013, 18:27
Just a thread for exploring how the youngest race and one of the oldest get along so well (apparently) in the 40k universe.

For some initial disclosure, this discussion originated on another thread;

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?383913-How-to-destroy-amazing-Space-Marines-army-!!&p=6973774#post6973774

As a Tau player and former Eldar player this relationship does bring a smile to my face, thus the idea for the thread.:)

I'd like to apologise if this is a bit vague; a lot of my 40k literature is either boxed up or got lost when I moved to university/from university/around university so I'm doing this largely from memory...

1. It's old fluff that hasn't been retconned, and wasn't obvious with a massive sign saying "Eldar did this lol!" from memory it was in relation to an analysis of an ethereal, which pointed out that the gland that excretes the pheromones that promote extreme loyalty in the Tau to the Ethereals was similar to a creature that was linked to the Eldar. People took this and ran with it, speculating that the Eldar had at the very least influenced the Eldar (which let's face it, would be the kinda thing they'd do)

2. The problem I've always had with the Tau tech vs. Imperial tech is that the Imperial tech is capable of a lot of what the Tau do, particularly in regards to AI - the difference is that AI almost wiped humanity out re. the men of iron, and the Tau obviously haven't got that. At the same time, you are essentially right - on a functional level, the Tau technology level is higher than the Imperium, but I think a big reason for this is simply because the Imperium doesn't care/believes that hard lives make for hardier people (Fenris, Necromunda) and we have seen in the Horus Heresy Series that the pre-heresy Imperium was capable of performing architectural marvels along the line of the Tau hives (read the description of Prospero in A Thousand Sons and you get a pretty good idea; also from what I understand, descriptions of Macragge and the rest of Ultramar, Calth and Prandium notwithstanding...) Plasma-wise, again I can't provide sources but I have a memory of reading something about finding a crashed eldar ship with the weapons on board - firstly, I could be imagining it, so if someone can confirm or deny this please do so, and secondly, it's speculation but I wouldn't be surprised for an Eldar to have 'lost' a ship with reverse-engineerable technology for the Tau to 'conveniently' find - especially since humans got plasma technology from the Eldar as well, I believe.

I think it's also worth emphasising how technologically capable the Imperium are; yes, they are backwards and losing more and more as the centuries went on, but that is largely because as I said above the Mechanicus have a stranglehold on technological innovation and regard designing a new plug as heresy. Even then, the technological achievements the Imperium are capable of at a higher level are much higher than we typically see in the setting, and even then I was reminded how much of a technological feat it would be to get space marines to work, even if in reality it's done on rule of cool, and in-game they probably don't fully understand the process.

Compared to the Eldar, yeah, you're still novices though :p But to be fair, we have several million years on you plus access to warp technologies like wraithbone etc... when you can move stars around because you feel like it, let us know :p

3. The only thing I'd disagree with you on that point is the tolerance thing; the Tau are only more tolerant because they're being compared to the Imperium and their 'invade, blow you up and force you to join - unless you're xenos in which case die". The Tau at least will ask first, albeit whilst tapping pointedly on the pulse rifles carried by the large and imposing fire warriors standing behind the diplomats; and they won't commit xenocide on sheer principle, too. Don't forget the Concentration camps, too :D

4. The Tau certainly aren't pushovers, not by a longshot - they wouldn't have survived past Damocles if they weren't. What I meant was that, compared to the other factions in the setting, they're small fry to the Imperium. I'd argue that even the necrons are more of a threat as they stand, and they've barely woken up yet. If the Imperium wanted the Tau dead, they could do it, and they probably would if they didn't have all the other threats to deal with. This is of course assuming that the Tau would be working on their own, and the Eldar wouldn't want all their hard work creating and manipulating meat-shi - sorry, allies - only for them to be stomped on would they :p

The key issue between the two is that the Tau don't really understand just who the Eldar are - as far as they're concerned, they're just another race. To the Eldar, the Tau are like children playing around with things they don't understand and marvelling at how awesome their not-very-impressive stuff is - the difference is that they're happy to manipulate them into doing stuff that benefit the Eldar, after all, what are a million Tau lives compared to one Eldar life.

In a way, I kinda like that mirror between the two - both are incredibly arrogant but for different reasons. The Tau are arrogant because they think they know how to run an empire, and that they're the awesome ones, with the ideology to prove it, except they're a slightly more benevolent Imperium; the Eldar are arrogant because they still believe that they're top dog and that they're the only ones who could bring them down, and if they hadn't created Slaanesh, then everything'd still be coming up Eldar. The funny thing is, though: they probably have a point...

=Angel=
05-11-2013, 19:27
Xenology was pretty explicit in the conclusions you should draw from it.
Step one. Xenos race have pyramidal shaped mind control pheremone gland on their queens.
Step two. The Eldar nicked a queen for reasons.
Step three. Tau are noted to have suddenly developed an extra caste of ethereals.
Step four. Dissection shows the tau ethereals have pyramidal glands on them that may produce pheremones, also exhibit mind control /influence over tau.

It's clear enough really, the only question is whether you accept it as canon or not.

It fits with the spaceship the tau found and reverse engineered to make their spaceship drives from.
This may or may not be retconned with the 'horizon' drives they are using now- may simply be a fancy name for reconfigured Eldar tech.

Either way, both races are races that will talk to you- as opposed to say Tyranids or oldcrons who would just open fire or eat you.
There can be diplomacy etc.

That's why they get on well.

InstantKarma
05-11-2013, 20:04
I'm not familiar with Xenology. Any links related to it that I could look up?

I'll need to answer the rest later :p

eldaran
05-11-2013, 20:32
wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Xenology‎

other than that, I'm sure you could find a fileshare if you have no problems with that - it's out of print, so I'd argue the ethics of downloading a pdf are moot on that one...

Also, Eldar, fire on you? They'll have manipulated events centuries ago so that someone else (probably the Imperium) fires on you :p

Solonor
06-11-2013, 10:14
That piece of fluff that hints about the Tau rapid evolution and ethreal influence being the works of Eldar manipulation or interference will never stick, simply because no gamer that starts collecting a 40K race wants their fluff and full existance as a species to being so much dependant on another race, in this case a playable race. Take Necrons, they changed their fluff from being some mindless terminator like zombies in the service of a God race, to actually having minds and agendas and to be capable of overthrowing their god masters. All of the playing races have something going for them to make them look a great menace:

Empire: we are the masters of the galaxy, if we could muster our full might in one place we could destroy anything. Our Emperor is a not so living god.
Orcs: we like a good fight, and we are numerous, if we could muster a galaxy wide waagh we would destroy anything.
Tyranids: you can destroy some of our fleets but there are still a lot more to come, we will consume everything.
Eldar: we had the longest empire in the history of the galaxy, so supreme that it only as fallen to our own excess, even now being so few we have lots of doomsday devices and can manipulate events with unmatched warp technology.
Necrons: we are older the even the Eldar and kicked the ass of the C'Tan, we are waking to destroy everything with our superior technology.
Chaos: you can all struggle but in the end all actions feed the Chaos gods and soon all will be Chaotic...
Tau: we are young, but our rapidly growing tech and empire is catching the other races off guard, soon we will surpass all of the others......but wait in reality we are just some pawns in a decadent and dying race schemes to be used against their enemies??? i think not.

eldaran
06-11-2013, 10:31
That piece of fluff that hints about the Tau rapid evolution and ethreal influence being the works of Eldar manipulation or interference will never stick, simply because no gamer that starts collecting a 40K race wants their fluff and full existance as a species to being so much dependant on another race, in this case a playable race. Take Necrons, they changed their fluff from being some mindless terminator like zombies in the service of a God race, to actually having minds and agendas and to be capable of overthrowing their god masters. All of the playing races have something going for them to make them look a great menace:

Empire: we are the masters of the galaxy, if we could muster our full might in one place we could destroy anything. Our Emperor is a not so living god.
Orcs: we like a good fight, and we are numerous, if we could muster a galaxy wide waagh we would destroy anything.
Tyranids: you can destroy some of our fleets but there are still a lot more to come, we will consume everything.
Eldar: we had the longest empire in the history of the galaxy, so supreme that it only as fallen to our own excess, even now being so few we have lots of doomsday devices and can manipulate events with unmatched warp technology.
Necrons: we are older the even the Eldar and kicked the ass of the C'Tan, we are waking to destroy everything with our superior technology.
Tau: we are young, but our rapidly growing tech and empire is catching the other races off guard, soon we will surpass all of the others......but wait in reality we are just some pawns in a decadent and dying race schemes to be used against their enemies??? i think not.

I get the point, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for the Tau to have been created by the Eldar to fight Chaos, but a. to have some autonomy in how they go about it; and b. to be more than slightly stubborn about it/the Eldar over-estimating how controllable the Tau are, because no-ones ever accused the Eldar of arrogance, have they? :p

As far as the 'Crons and Eldar tech comparison go, I'd say the Eldar are just superior, but that's because they both had the help of the Old Ones in developing the principles of their technology (wraithbone and the webway) whereas the necrons got pretty much jack squat from the C'tan, and more importantly because the Eldar have a species-wide as-yet unmatched (unless the Emperor has his way) ability to use the power of the Immaterium. By comparison, I'd say the Tau are more similar to pre-Age of Strife humanity, just without the ability to use warp drives etc. The Eldar and Necrons are on an exponentially higher level of technology than the Tau, probably to the extent that an Earth caste reverse engineer would look at it and scratch his/her head for the entirety of his/her career failing to turn the damn thing on, never mind reverse-engineer the principles.

This doesn't mean that the Tau could get there eventually; it's just certainly not gonna happen overnight unless an Eldar decides to just go over and explain slowly-like how to make it work, albeit without the psychic components :) and almost certainly not in the next thousand or even twenty thousand years - after all, the war in heaven lasted eons, and that's when most of the Eldar's tech was started, and they then had another sixty million years to improve on it. I mean, we're talking numbers that we can't even visualise the size of amounts of time, and that's not even counting the help they had from their Gods and the Old Ones...

innerwolf
06-11-2013, 11:18
That piece of fluff that hints about the Tau rapid evolution and ethreal influence being the works of Eldar manipulation or interference will never stick, simply because no gamer that starts collecting a 40K race wants their fluff and full existance as a species to being so much dependant on another race, in this case a playable race. Take Necrons, they changed their fluff from being some mindless terminator like zombies in the service of a God race, to actually having minds and agendas and to be capable of overthrowing their god masters. All of the playing races have something going for them to make them look a great menace:

Empire: we are the masters of the galaxy, if we could muster our full might in one place we could destroy anything. Our Emperor is a not so living god.
Orcs: we like a good fight, and we are numerous, if we could muster a galaxy wide waagh we would destroy anything.
Tyranids: you can destroy some of our fleets but there are still a lot more to come, we will consume everything.
Eldar: we had the longest empire in the history of the galaxy, so supreme that it only as fallen to our own excess, even now being so few we have lots of doomsday devices and can manipulate events with unmatched warp technology.
Necrons: we are older the even the Eldar and kicked the ass of the C'Tan, we are waking to destroy everything with our superior technology.
Chaos: you can all struggle but in the end all actions feed the Chaos gods and soon all will be Chaotic...
Tau: we are young, but our rapidly growing tech and empire is catching the other races off guard, soon we will surpass all of the others......but wait in reality we are just some pawns in a decadent and dying race schemes to be used against their enemies??? i think not.

QFTT. I certainly don't want to play a race which is the pet of another one. That's being second-rate players.

Hendarion
06-11-2013, 12:39
Eldar and Orks were pets of the Old Ones.
Guard are (mostly) the pets (and canon-fodder) of some mind-sick governor.
Marines are the pets of the Administratum.
Sisters are the pets of the Administratum.
Not that big difference if you try to see it from that point of view.
After all, the Tau aren't serving the Eldar.

InstantKarma
06-11-2013, 12:51
This doesn't mean that the Tau could get there eventually; it's just certainly not gonna happen overnight unless an Eldar decides to just go over and explain slowly-like how to make it work, albeit without the psychic components :) and almost certainly not in the next thousand or even twenty thousand years - after all, the war in heaven lasted eons, and that's when most of the Eldar's tech was started, and they then had another sixty million years to improve on it. I mean, we're talking numbers that we can't even visualise the size of amounts of time, and that's not even counting the help they had from their Gods and the Old Ones...

I think this is something I'd contest. One of the core tenets of Tau fluff is that we always seem to have new toys (again, oh so subtle GW, now take more of my money!) and they are constantly developing new tech. It might be comparable to Age of Tech Humanity, but we aren't at this point dealing with that. We're dealing with the Imperium, which doesn't even know how a warp drive actually fuinctions (much to the dismary of the Earth Caste). A reminder; it took humanity 10s of thousands of years just to get warp drives. It took the Tau only 2-3 thousands to achieve almost light speed without needing warp travel. Cleary we have figured out something no one else has:p

I'm not sure how I feel about the implication that the Eldar may or may not have helped 'steer' Tau evolution. Again, I think much has to do with fluff either being overlooked by new authors or being changed. No more warp storm, we just evolved super fast without it. I'd also note that in the older Codexes we had the big bad Eldrad himself say that he thought the Tau would succeed where the Eldar had failed;

"I have followed the myriad potential futures of the Tau with great interest. Though barely even striplings compared to us, I feel a strange protectiveness towards them. In time I believe they will exceed even our greatest feats and master the darkness within their souls."

Aside from the fact that I didn't even know Tau could have 'darkness in their souls', apparently the greatest farseer thinks the Tau might surpass the Eldar.

eldaran
06-11-2013, 13:23
I think this is something I'd contest. One of the core tenets of Tau fluff is that we always seem to have new toys (again, oh so subtle GW, now take more of my money!) and they are constantly developing new tech. It might be comparable to Age of Tech Humanity, but we aren't at this point dealing with that. We're dealing with the Imperium, which doesn't even know how a warp drive actually fuinctions (much to the dismary of the Earth Caste). A reminder; it took humanity 10s of thousands of years just to get warp drives. It took the Tau only 2-3 thousands to achieve almost light speed without needing warp travel. Cleary we have figured out something no one else has:p

I'm not sure how I feel about the implication that the Eldar may or may not have helped 'steer' Tau evolution. Again, I think much has to do with fluff either being overlooked by new authors or being changed. No more warp storm, we just evolved super fast without it. I'd also note that in the older Codexes we had the big bad Eldrad himself say that he thought the Tau would succeed where the Eldar had failed;

"I have followed the myriad potential futures of the Tau with great interest. Though barely even striplings compared to us, I feel a strange protectiveness towards them. In time I believe they will exceed even our greatest feats and master the darkness within their souls."

Aside from the fact that I didn't even know Tau could have 'darkness in their souls', apparently the greatest farseer thinks the Tau might surpass the Eldar.

The important words there are "in time"; not "tomorrow" or "in the next century". And given he's a farseer, the 'in time' could be a very long way off. As for the warp storm not being there, it doesn't mean that the Tau weren't guided which I don't really see a problem with - in fact, from an Eldar perspective I like the fallability in that, that the Eldar managed to create something but not forsee what might happen. It fits in with the arrogant nature of the Eldar.

and as far as the 'darkness within their souls' thing goes, well, the Mon'Tau ring any bells? :p The savage wars that almost killed off the Tau before the ethereals turned up to say "ummm, guys? What the hell are you playing at?!?"

=Angel=
06-11-2013, 15:12
Eldar and Orks were pets of the Old Ones.
Guard are (mostly) the pets (and canon-fodder) of some mind-sick governor.
Marines are the pets of the Administratum.
Sisters are the pets of the Administratum.
Not that big difference if you try to see it from that point of view.
After all, the Tau aren't serving the Eldar.

I agree with this.
Very much this.
EVERY race is someone's project- whether it's the Emperor (be he old one or perpetual) guiding an accidental race of evolved tree beasts into the galaxy or the Tyranids- just the fingers of an unfathomable intelligence.

It's part of the irony and grim dark that for all your victories and striving, you remain an inconsequential pawn in someone greater's game.
The ingame factions are largely ignorant of this and don't see the tragic joke that they have become.
The Eldar fighting fate, the imperium embattled on every side, the tau trying to matter- all insects fighting in a jar for the amusement of onlookers.
In universe those are the chaos gods, in reality they are you and I.

InstantKarma
06-11-2013, 15:15
I agree with this.
Very much this.
EVERY race is someone's project- whether it's the Emperor (be he old one or perpetual) guiding an accidental race of evolved tree beasts into the galaxy or the Tyranids- just the fingers of an unfathomable intelligence.

It's part of the irony and grim dark that for all your victories and striving, you remain an inconsequential pawn in someone greater's game.
The ingame factions are largely ignorant of this and don't see the tragic joke that they have become.
The Eldar fighting fate, the imperium embattled on every side, the tau trying to matter- all insects fighting in a jar for the amusement of onlookers.
In universe those are the chaos gods, in reality they are you and I.

Well damn...you just went all Truman Show with 40k on us!

Plague Lord
06-11-2013, 16:03
All of the fish-heads belong to khorne! DArkness! MonTau! FISH FOR THE FISH GOD!!

eldaran
06-11-2013, 16:04
Well damn...you just went all Truman Show with 40k on us!

I'm now seeing the Warp completely differently: The Emperor is dead and in the warp, the Old Ones and the Eldar Gods are all their along with the Chaos Gods (everyone gets on) and they just sit there with a massive portal/television munching popcorn, having a laugh and occasionally playing with the factions just to make it more entertaining for them...

It all makes sense now :)


All of the fish-heads belong to khorne! DArkness! MonTau! FISH FOR THE FISH GOD!!

Scales for the Scale Throne?

Solonor
06-11-2013, 16:27
It's part of the irony and grim dark that for all your victories and striving, you remain an inconsequential pawn in someone greater's game.
The ingame factions are largely ignorant of this and don't see the tragic joke that they have become.

Yeahh it's like they are miniatures in a table top game with their every movements being controlled by some large and peculiar entities and their fates are decided by a simple roll of a dice. Some of them just keep on living a grey and dull life, while others are more collorfull. Then there's the ones that just don't feel complete or assembled and worst of all, thoose few trapped in a different body/tank etc., but know in their heart that they where born to be something else, also refered as proxies...

Mon-Keigh Buanna
20-11-2013, 06:36
Do you know what's funny about all this...?
who controls the Emperor/Eldrad/Hive Mind etc.?
Games Workshop?
who controls GW?
the buyers.
yes!
we are the overlords of the Warhammer 40k Universe.
WE ARE THE ONES PULLING THE STRINGS!

oh... and also, the best proxy armies are probably nids, Imperium or orks.
I also believe that nids and orks will control the universe one day.
with Necrons and Chaos coming a close second...
ALTERNATIVELY...

GW could just explode the entire universe and we (hobby enthusiasts) are left with a bunch of useless junk.
so we storm GW headquarters and force them to re-create it the ways we want it.
Such is life

El_Machinae
20-11-2013, 14:41
As far as the 'Crons and Eldar tech comparison go, I'd say the Eldar are just superior, but that's because they both had the help of the Old Ones in developing the principles of their technology (wraithbone and the webway) whereas the necrons got pretty much jack squat from the C'tan, and more importantly because the Eldar have a species-wide as-yet unmatched (unless the Emperor has his way) ability to use the power of the Immaterium. By comparison, I'd say the Tau are more similar to pre-Age of Strife humanity, just without the ability to use warp drives etc. The Eldar and Necrons are on an exponentially higher level of technology than the Tau, probably to the extent that an Earth caste reverse engineer would look at it and scratch his/her head for the entirety of his/her career failing to turn the damn thing on, never mind reverse-engineer the principles.

I think it's safe to assume that both the Necrons and the Eldar are at their peak potential. Not THE peak potential, but the highest that they can get due to their psychology. In straight technology (i.e., mastery of the physical universe) the Necrons have a slight edge due to their ability to make use of hyperdimensional phenomenon. The Eldar might have a greater potential, due to their ability to make use of psychic powers. The Necrons can never, ever have wraithbone.

Now, I think that a higher potential exists, or else the C'tan and the Old Ones wouldn't have the apparent dominant prowess. BUT, due to psychological quirks, neither the Necrons nor the Eldar can reach that potential. Technological progress tends to follow an S-curve, but there can be some foible that prevents leaping from S to S. Whether this foible is decadence or laziness (refusing to invest in the next set of breakthroughs or research) or something else can be highly variable.

182001

Hendarion
20-11-2013, 15:25
who controls GW?
the buyers.
yes!
No. GW has proven many times again and again that they don't care what the customers think or want. So... the buyers control nothing except the level of profit GW is making. It doesn't matter what kind of stupid and ugly chaos dinobots or dragons GW is creating, people still throw their money at GW.

Nazguire
21-11-2013, 02:19
No. GW has proven many times again and again that they don't care what the customers think or want. So... the buyers control nothing except the level of profit GW is making. It doesn't matter what kind of stupid and ugly chaos dinobots or dragons GW is creating, people still throw their money at GW.


Because perhaps that outside this forum there are plenty that do like the models you just bagged. Seriously, this whinging from so many people that they hate GW but continue to be involved with the hobby is reminiscent of the Apple-hate that is so rampant when ever a new iPhone comes out. Next topic.

I'm not too big a fan of the idea of the Eldar having anything to do with the actual creation of the Tau. The Eldar would surely be more subtle than outright creating a race, perhaps altering the development of certain technologies and things over time, but nothing so direct as biologically creating them and then guiding them along the way.

eldaran
21-11-2013, 13:36
Because perhaps that outside this forum there are plenty that do like the models you just bagged. Seriously, this whinging from so many people that they hate GW but continue to be involved with the hobby is reminiscent of the Apple-hate that is so rampant when ever a new iPhone comes out. Next topic.

I'm not too big a fan of the idea of the Eldar having anything to do with the actual creation of the Tau. The Eldar would surely be more subtle than outright creating a race, perhaps altering the development of certain technologies and things over time, but nothing so direct as biologically creating them and then guiding them along the way.

I agree with this, and tend to follow the idea that the Eldar kidnapped a bunch of Tau and then implanted the gland to create ethereals, along with maybe influencing Tau evolution to deaden their warp presence, and leave it at that...

=Angel=
21-11-2013, 21:40
The oh so subtle Eldar. The race with a warrior caste entirely devoted to carrying meltaguns that worship a god of war whose avatar's hand drips with blood.

Maybe they didn't engineer the entire race- but they sure did something. Could be just the ethereals as mentioned could have been a ship full of tech(like fusion guns)

Karak Norn Clansman
21-11-2013, 21:58
As already elaborated upon in the thread, Xenology may hold the key to why Eldar and Tau get along so well. Read it! (Just ignore the feet on the Tau...)

The Eldar might control the Tau more or less indirectly. The Eldar (probably Craftworlders) might have created the Etheral Caste through kidnapping a Q'orl swarmqueen far-off from the galactic west. They then might have fashioned the Ethereals by biological engineering of some kind. This would play to the manipulative puppet master side of space Elves and also make them seem more capable since some kind of Eldar faction will go to any length to ensure survival or power, even by creating an alien empire on the Eastern Fringe as a tool or bulwark.

The forehead diamond organs of Ethereals seem to be Q'orl pheromone producers which obviously have been adapted to work on Tau physiology. In the most secret Ethereal domes on T'au there might well lie a captive insect queen, perhaps laying the diamonds into the young Ethereals' foreheads just like the current regent Q'orl queen lays larvae into captured Imperial Navigators' skulls to unlock efficient Warp travel.


No. GW has proven many times again and again that they don't care what the customers think or want. So... the buyers control nothing except the level of profit GW is making. It doesn't matter what kind of stupid and ugly chaos dinobots or dragons GW is creating, people still throw their money at GW.

Nope, the dinobots are great miniatures. One would think more veterans on Warseer would appreciate them because 1) they bring Chaos into CSM, and 2) their rounded armour plates and beetleback is highly old school in its design. Old school of the good kind.


QFTT. I certainly don't want to play a race which is the pet of another one. That's being second-rate players.

Sorry, but every player whose army does not feature Dwarfs is a second-rate player. :p

To a degree, Tau should be unknowing tools of the Eldar, but then again the Imperium, Orks and most other factions are exploitable in the Eldar toolbox of galactic intrigue. Most of the time the Eldar methods are subtle enough to swallow. After all, it could all be happenstance, eh? And when they are not, they'll probably come down to Aspect Warrior invasion.

Hendarion
22-11-2013, 05:04
Because perhaps that outside this forum there are plenty that do like the models you just bagged. Seriously, this whinging from so many people that they hate GW but continue to be involved with the hobby is reminiscent of the Apple-hate that is so rampant when ever a new iPhone comes out. Next topic.I never said I hate GW. I like they models they produce for Eldar ;) Anyway, you missed my point and I guess trying to bring it up again would massively derail the thread.

El_Machinae
22-11-2013, 13:28
You know, if the Tau/Eldar link is true, it needn't be an Eldar-wide conspiracy. The actual meddling would easily be within the capabilities of a determined faction from one craftworld. You'd need a cabal of about (what?) 20 determined Eldar to do it?

eldaran
22-11-2013, 15:08
You know, if the Tau/Eldar link is true, it needn't be an Eldar-wide conspiracy. The actual meddling would easily be within the capabilities of a determined faction from one craftworld. You'd need a cabal of about (what?) 20 determined Eldar to do it?

I wouldn't put it past Eldrad 'Engineer the rise of Ghazkull Thraka' Ulthran to do it on his own, to be honest...

InstantKarma
25-11-2013, 15:22
The oh so subtle Eldar. The race with a warrior caste entirely devoted to carrying meltaguns that worship a god of war whose avatar's hand drips with blood.

Maybe they didn't engineer the entire race- but they sure did something. Could be just the ethereals as mentioned could have been a ship full of tech(like fusion guns)

Need I mention that as of the current codex Tau Fusion Blasters out range their Eldar 'equivalent' by 6 inches?
:D

Hendarion
25-11-2013, 17:34
Yea. And they can only be carried by suits ;)

InstantKarma
25-11-2013, 17:37
Yea. And they can only be carried by suits ;)

I can carry 2 on suits, which are Jet Pack Infantry, have an MEQ save, and have 2 wounds each.

Fire Dragons can't touch this points wise :-P