PDA

View Full Version : Hex Scroll and Doomfire Warlocks / Pink Horrors...



tw1386
05-11-2013, 20:54
So I think we've got ourselves an odd quirk here. What happens if you use the Frog Hex Scroll on a unit of Dark Elf Doomfire Warlocks or Daemons Pink Horrors? Does the whole unit go ribbit?

theunwantedbeing
05-11-2013, 21:11
If you read the rules for each of those units, it does state what happens in that situation.

Kain187
05-11-2013, 21:31
you pick 1 model for casting each spell. Therefore you would have 4 locks and a frog at that point.

Symrivven
06-11-2013, 09:09
you pick 1 model for casting each spell. Therefore you would have 4 locks and a frog at that point.
And all of them are riding dark steeds.

SanDiegoSurrealist
06-11-2013, 15:38
What happens if cast Glean Magic on a unit of Horrors or a unit of Warlocks?

Would whole unit lose their spell or just 1 guy?

Kain187
06-11-2013, 17:00
You would have to choose a guy and that lock would lose the spell. Individual locks cast the spell not the unit. I am not sure how the horror rules are written.

SanDiegoSurrealist
06-11-2013, 17:45
In the case of Glean Magic:
The wording in the book is treat the unit as a level 1 caster.
So you treat the entire unit as a level 1 not each model as a level 1.
You only single out individual models for line of sight and targeting.
My interpretation would be the unit loses the ability to cast the spell that has been gleaned.

In the case of a Hex Scroll:

Again the wording in the book is treat the unit as a level 1 caster.
So you treat the entire unit as the caster not each model.
My interpretation here is if the entire unit is treated as caster then the entire unit turns into a frog or frogs as the case maybe?

And in the case of Warlocks do their mounts get changed as well or are they now Fast Cav Frogs?

furrie
06-11-2013, 18:55
In the case of Glean Magic:
The wording in the book is treat the unit as a level 1 caster.
So you treat the entire unit as a level 1 not each model as a level 1.
You only single out individual models for line of sight and targeting.
My interpretation would be the unit loses the ability to cast the spell that has been gleaned.

In the case of a Hex Scroll:

Again the wording in the book is treat the unit as a level 1 caster.
So you treat the entire unit as the caster not each model.
My interpretation here is if the entire unit is treated as caster then the entire unit turns into a frog or frogs as the case maybe?

And in the case of Warlocks do their mounts get changed as well or are they now Fast Cav Frogs?
The relevant line of the pink horrors says: "each time the unit casts a spell (or is targeted by a special rule that affects a wizard), you must nominate one pink horror in the unit as the caster(or the target) for the purpose of line of sight, range, etc." So when a pink horror unit is targeted by either glean magic or the hex scroll the controlling player chooses one horror. I'm not sure what happens with the spell in the case of glean magic, seeing as the unit knows the spell, so I guess the unit probably losses the spell. But with the scroll only one pink horror becomes a frog.

SanDiegoSurrealist
06-11-2013, 19:52
The relevant line of the pink horrors says: "each time the unit casts a spell (or is targeted by a special rule that affects a wizard), you must nominate one pink horror in the unit as the caster(or the target) for the purpose of line of sight, range, etc."

I disagree the only thing you select a single model for is for determining line of sight, range, etc. The unit is the Wizard so Glean Magic should affect the entire unit.

And the Hex scroll, even if it only affected 1 model, would drop its move down to 1 so would still quite effectively nerf a unit of Warlocks at least for a turn. But again I still think its effects are on the entire unit in both cases.

Kain187
06-11-2013, 20:28
Just took a quick look and it states for doom warlocks that the opponent picks a model for ANYTHING that would effect a wizard ie hex scrolls and glean magic. Have to read to the end of the paragraph.

Tae
06-11-2013, 20:30
I disagree the only thing you select a single model for is for determining line of sight, range, etc. The unit is the Wizard so Glean Magic should affect the entire unit.

And the Hex scroll, even if it only affected 1 model, would drop its move down to 1 so would still quite effectively nerf a unit of Warlocks at least for a turn. But again I still think its effects are on the entire unit in both cases.

For the Warlocks you're wrong I'm afraid. Their rule specifically states

"If the unit is targeted by a rule that effects a Wizard, your opponent must nominate one Master of Warlocks or Doomfire Warlock as the target"

So not only would only one of them be turned into a frog, rather than the whole unit, but as it's only the rider that gets turned into the frog rather than the Dark Steed they would still be movement 9.

SanDiegoSurrealist
06-11-2013, 21:35
For the Warlocks you're wrong I'm afraid. Their rule specifically states

"If the unit is targeted by a rule that effects a Wizard, your opponent must nominate one Master of Warlocks or Doomfire Warlock as the target"

So not only would only one of them be turned into a frog, rather than the whole unit, but as it's only the rider that gets turned into the frog rather than the Dark Steed they would still be movement 9.

Did not know that ruling for Warlock - so I stand corrected on that.

Why would it not affect his steed?

Tae
06-11-2013, 21:57
Did not know that ruling for Warlock - so I stand corrected on that.

Why would it not affect his steed?

No worries, I hadn't spotted it myself until someone pointed it to to me.

And it wouldn't affect the steed because the steed and the warlock have different stat lines, so the warlock would be reduced to 1s, as per the ruling I mentioned above, but the steed still has M9.

Blkc57
07-11-2013, 04:49
You are all now picturing a frog clinging on to dear life to the back of a galloping horse. Enjoy.

Symrivven
07-11-2013, 10:02
The scroll specifically mentioned the wizard (multiple times) and never the model, so yes you would have a frog riding a dark steed.

But what about hexing a daemon prince, then you could end up with a flying, fire breathing, terror causing frog. ^^

furrie
07-11-2013, 12:38
doesn't he also loses all of his special rules?

Blinder
07-11-2013, 14:01
I'm pretty sure he does, but that isn't nearly as entertaining an image...

As for horrors, who gets the template over their head for a detonation? I'd figure that's your frog.

furrie
07-11-2013, 14:33
I'm pretty sure he does, but that isn't nearly as entertaining an image...

As for horrors, who gets the template over their head for a detonation? I'd figure that's your frog.

the owners of the horrors picks a horror

underscore
07-11-2013, 18:27
Horrors don't miscast the same anyway - they just take a bunch of damage no matter what.

SanDiegoSurrealist
07-11-2013, 20:31
But the reason you only select a single model as the caster is just for determining line of sight, range, target, etc. The unit is the "Wizard" so Glean Magic should affect the entire unit.

The entire unit of Horrors or the entire unit of Warlocks would lose a spell and a level, not just 1 guy in the unit, they are a collective caster. Otherwise my unit of Horrors should be able to channel 20 dice if they are all level 1's.

Symrivven
08-11-2013, 10:04
doesn't he also loses all of his special rules?


I'm pretty sure he does, but that isn't nearly as entertaining an image...

As for horrors, who gets the template over their head for a detonation? I'd figure that's your frog.

If you think someone is wrong you should first check the rulebook (and ideally FAQ) before making wrong statements or guesses here. The scrolls rules on this matter have no ambiguity, the scroll temporarily strips: mundane items, magic items, the ability to cast and channel, and sets all characteristics to 1 (except wounds). Special rules are thus not affected.

dalezzz
09-11-2013, 10:58
And those items were almost useful! Ahh well maybe next time